Does anyone think the AI is too passive in diplomaty and starting wars?

Alex Kravetski · November 1, 2001, 07:11

I see that AI never starts war with each other. This makes me to be bored.

I try to make AI's more agressive by setting it's agressivness level in CivEditor to maximum value. But I play no game with this yet.

Does anyone try this way?

Does anyone see war beetween AI's? (If that which difficulty level you use?)

Does anyone know another solution of this problem?

cort · November 1, 2001, 07:48

agree.
even i am one of the weakest civs in the game, none of my neighbors declared war on me yet.. they treaten though but a couple of coins cool down their anger..
and not seen any inter-AI war yet.
strange..

Wexu · November 1, 2001, 10:33

I agree too. The AI aggressivness must be increased. In my game, I'm the only one who has wars. A bit stupid..

Have someone seen that AI nation really attacks against other without you doing anything related to it??

And I just hate it when they come to demand you your territory map and 3 gold! What the hell is it doing with 3 gold?! I hope it'll be changed that if they demand something, they'll demand something reasonable (like a tech) or don't demand nothing at all! This is ridicilous.

I think I'll try to add some aggr. with editor too, but I hope it doesn't make them more aggressive only against me!

Max Webster · November 1, 2001, 12:18

I'm playing on an easy level and the AI's are fighting each other, I have witnessed several wars.

I haven't been attacked yet, probably because i'm kissing butt and being very agreeable.

Alex Kravetski · November 2, 2001, 06:34

I did several test on Standart map with 7 Civs. There were 1-2 wars from 4000 BC to 1000 AD. In my opinion it is VERY bad result.

As I think it must be 10-15 wars at least. Hope Firaxis will fix this error or give as a method to correct agresivness of AI's on ALL (not only Standard) map sizes.

By the way AI's fights fine. During 20 turns they destroyed more than 100 units and it is only what I saw.

ElitePersian · November 2, 2001, 07:58

Well one thing you can do is to use the editor and increase the aggresiveness of each civilization that will be in your game.

Alex Kravetski · November 2, 2001, 08:11

Quote:

Originally posted by ElitePersian
Well one thing you can do is to use the editor and increase the aggresiveness of each civilization that will be in your game.

I tried this alredy. But it makes too little changes in game process. There were only 2 wars though I set agressivness of all civs to maximum value.

Wexu · November 2, 2001, 08:14

Ok, I played a game, there was three wars. One with me against one AI, one with AI against AI and one real "World War" all AI's + me against one AI (the poor Egyptians). So there was 2 wars started by AI and one by me. The last war was really great. Ai should be a bit more aggressive though.

It must be nice to be the Egyptians: (They got totally wipen out)

edit: Oh, I just saw that France is not in the war yet, but they'll got in later.

cort · November 2, 2001, 08:42

well,

they dont declare war directly, instead they threaten you and cool down for a while unless you reject them. Not bad.

And i strongly recommend you to give them whatever they want, just for one time I rejected what russia wanted; we had no common borders but what she had done; allied with three other civs (two of them being my neighbors) and had them declare war on me

all at once, I was attacked from several borders..

but still not seen any war between AIs.

Alex Kravetski · November 5, 2001, 04:18

As I've found AI starts war only when there is no space to colonize by settlers. So that if you want to see the war earlier than 1800 AD you must correct map size or number of civs. I play on 100x100 map with 16 civs, set number of cities to 40 and agression of all civs to maximum. By this way first AI's war starts at 1000 BC. It's a good result. There are many wars of AI vs AI and AI vs me. I like to play so. But I think it would be better to set standart map size 110x110 and science rate to 100 and play on big continents.

TO FIRAXIS: It's not good that AI doesn't make war until there isn't space to colonize. It's better to take foriegn city in grassland than build its own in tundra.

yin26 · November 5, 2001, 04:45

I think something interesting about the AI is that it WANTS TO WIN. This means, it will do its best to get into wars only when it has the advantage ... and it will work to create an advantage via pacts and culture in the meantime.

Yes, this means a long chess game at times. But the times I have seen the AI really attack, it was shocking. I call it the Colen Powell Playbook.

Auslander · November 5, 2001, 05:40

I have played at Chieften and Warlord level.

At Chieften they never fight. In my current warlord game there is a world war in every age. If your Civs aren't fighting perhaps they have too much space.

I am playing on a huge map with 16 civs. 99% of Roman civilization now belongs to the Babylonians. China is also all but decimated. And the Greeks once a world power, has now fallen to the hated Zulus.

I like this game.

CBH · November 5, 2001, 08:47

I'm in my second game on Warlord, and the AI has fought each other a bit. The Americans trekked about 20 Swordsmen across my territory to attack the Persians, then just as they get there they sign a peace and go tramping all the way back

It seems to be a lot harder to prosecute a succesful war in Civ3 then the earlier games - that's a good thing I guess

Leonid · November 5, 2001, 08:49

well in my game i had just one war very early. I went to war with egypt to expand. Then later found rome on my western border. They demanded contact with egypt and I obliged them to keep them happy.

Well 2 turns later they sneak attack and pour over border. and Aztecs dclared war on me too from my eastern border. But I had a good fortified isthmus so aztecs couldnt do anyhting and I preceded to kick romes butt in next few hundred years and took over their empire. They never had a source of iron, that was their big downfall,.. so no legions (just archers and spearmen).

SuiteSisterMary · November 5, 2001, 09:02

Nah.

Game I'm in, Zululand is directly south of my Persian empire. Well, the declared war pretty quickly, probably pissed that I'd boxed them into the jungle.

Fought them off; that 'no using enemy roads' trick makes it easy for my horsement to thunder south and cut them off as they approach my frontline cities. After taking two or three of their cities, they sue for peace. A few turns later, they declare war again. Two or three more cities later, they sue for peace, and now their scared. I see settlers escorted with pikemen walking along the border, but they never ever cross.

Later, I run into the Iroquois, who are all alone on a western continent. They immediately offered dyes for wines, straight up. They were scared of my army of Knights. Turns out they don't have Iron. But HoLY CRAP were they willing to pay for it! I wound up giving it to them for a World Map, FOUR technologies, ALL their gold, a right of passage, and a mutual defense pact.

Later, they signed a mutual defense pact with Zululand, so I'm curious to see what'll happen if the Zulus are stupid enough to try to finish their war. I, after all, control two of the three saltpeter resources, and ALL of the iron. (There's a little bitty island in the north west with an iron and a saltpeter; might be able to support one whole city.)

Auslander · November 5, 2001, 09:34

My current game I had a mutual defense pact with 2 civs that ended up in war with each other. I had a pact with France and English, they're are (er...were) neighbors. England went to war against Germany (their other neighbor), so I was forced into war with them. So I thought France (my ally) would declare war against Germany and save me the trouble of coming over there to help. To my suprise France and Germany had a pact. So you guessed it France declared war on England and me (Egypt.) Then everything just went down hill from there, every alliance on the map activated. I paid off the Russians and Zulus (two of the strongest empires on the map) with tech to help me fight. Well now everyone is at war. I am playing on a huge map, with 16 civs (warlord.) And literally everyone declared war on someone else. Oddly enough it's not a 2 sided war. No teams. Some of my allies' allies are at war with me. I can't figure out how many sides there are. It's pretty good too, some civs just came up with trade embargos against me (Damn iriquious.) So I promptly declared war against them and currently crushing them under my heel. While the damn english which started all this have been wiped out by the Indians. China which was neutral until last turn was forced to turn on me by the Americans. Many of the civs have approached me about trade embargos which I gladly went along with.

So far I am impressed with the A.I. Time to go make France pay for their sins.

cort · November 5, 2001, 10:02

to all guys waiting out there for the holy nov.17

do not lose a single hour messing with lesser number of civs.. the game EXCELS with 16.. scarse resources, full utilization of diplomacy, pacts, staff.. perfect!

thanks god its Fraxis!!

HugoHillbilly · November 5, 2001, 10:58

You MUST be playing it on chieftan, I have only been playing on warlord and the AI is aggressive as hell.

My first game ever I was boxed in by 2 AI players, and within 20 turns they both allied against me and crushed my 4 cities. I hadnt explored alot at this point but I think it was a small island that couldnt support 3 civs so they got rid of me as soon as possible.

My second game I went a peaceful path and the AI were allways at war with each other, but never me. I stayed out of it all but it was interesting watching the world goto hell as everyone activated alliances. The indians got the best of it and had huge amounts of territory, and then I lost as they won a diplomatic victory by becoming the leader of the UN as they wiped out all their enemies and got their allies to vote for them.

The game I am playing now is interesting, as I am getting better I am a dominate power and as such the AI seems to leave me alone, so I thought i'd mix it up by taking a few German cities along my borders to expand, but they begged me for peace after I captured 3.

I think that the AI plays the game to its best advantage, so if you are weak it will come and eat you up yet if your a powerful it will be nice to you.

vovan · November 5, 2001, 23:23

If you call that passive, you've never played Civ 1/2. (or you are playing on the easiest level).

In other words, no. In my games (four so far) the AI has always been agressive and sometimes more active diplomatically, than I. Lots of action going on.

Garth Vader · November 6, 2001, 19:20

Playing on warlord I have noticed a decent amount of AI war. 8 civs 2 continents my continent has been limited to my many wars

and I keep losing my supply or horses because so much territory changes hands on the other continent.

narmox · November 6, 2001, 19:41

hm, I keep seeing people say they play with a total of 16 civs. How does that happen? The most I can see when I start a new game is choices for 11 opponents (unless I counted wrong). Does a file have to be edited like in CTP or what?

Thanks,
Narmox.

Zyzzarzaz · November 6, 2001, 20:04

Quote:

hm, I keep seeing people say they play with a total of 16 civs. How does that happen? The most I can see when I start a new game is choices for 11 opponents (unless I counted wrong). Does a file have to be edited like in CTP or what?

You need to edit the maxnumber of civ variable in the rulesdialog (worldsize tab) in the editor. There is a different setting for each worldsize.

Save the file and use "Load scenery" to use your rulefile in the game.

Zyzzarzaz · November 6, 2001, 20:22

I'm currently playing a game with 16 civs on a standard pangea map (regent).

I can't remember that any of the AI players in my game have been in peace for more than 2 turn since the beginning of the "knight age". Civs are getting killed like flies... The AI partículary likes to incite other civs against thier enemies.

It's kinda funny looking at a strong civ and think "Uh, hope they don't decide to take over the world anytime soon... *worried*". ...Suddenly, a few turns later, just about every civ declares war on them and gangbangs them to death...

narmox · November 6, 2001, 20:50

Quote:

Originally posted by Zyzzarzaz

You need to edit the maxnumber of civ variable in the rulesdialog (worldsize tab) in the editor. There is a different setting for each worldsize.

Save the file and use "Load scenery" to use your rulefile in the game.

thanks!

ixnay · November 7, 2001, 00:35

I'm playing on a huge map (mostly water) with 16 civs. Aztecs to my north, Germans to my east (and center of my donut-shaped empire), Greeks to the south and Egyptians to the southeast. The tiny aztec empire annoyed me, so I declared war. All my troops were along the south and south east border from a previous war with the greeks. I move them to attack the aztecs, and the egyptians seize the opportunity and my lack of troops on their border and sweep into my empire and conquer half my cities...damn egyptians...

CygnusZ · November 7, 2001, 01:44

Quote:

Originally posted by Alex Kravetski
I did several test on Standart map with 7 Civs. There were 1-2 wars from 4000 BC to 1000 AD. In my opinion it is VERY bad result.

As I think it must be 10-15 wars at least. Hope Firaxis will fix this error or give as a method to correct agresivness of AI's on ALL (not only Standard) map sizes.

By the way AI's fights fine. During 20 turns they destroyed more than 100 units and it is only what I saw.

There's a "breaking point" where the world just tends to descend into an orgy of violence. Wait until all those countries make mutual protection pacts with each other... then you'll see trouble.

musofire · August 28, 2002, 12:14

Does anyone know how to stop a war you're in when you've got a mutual defense pact with an ally?

woody · September 6, 2002, 10:14

Quote:

Originally posted by musofire
Does anyone know how to stop a war you're in when you've got a mutual defense pact with an ally?

You can always break the mutual defense pact, and then ask for peace from your enemies. But, you'll piss off your ally and he won't likely trust you again.

Bambul · September 6, 2002, 10:26

If the country you make peace with attacks your MPP Ally then you'll be forced to declare war again. There are only two ways out:

1. Wait until the MPP expires, then declare peace.
2. Declare war on your ally, then the MPP will expire immediately and you can make peace

I did the second one once, when about 4 Civ's declared war on my ally. I was weak and figured, better war with one Civ and take a reputation hit than war with 4 Civs and having to build units rather than improvements.

dworkin · September 6, 2002, 16:07

Contrary-wise I find the AI's to be agressive lunatics. In my latest game I have had very few turns of total peace since we all met each other. As an example - Russia attacks Babylon who signs an alliance with America prompting Russia in the next turn to do a deal with France. Babylon then counters a few turns later with peace to Russia and allies with Germany to kill the French. Back and forth, up and down the landmasses and can we use your spiffy rail network, human? No? Then it's war to you too.

Of course much of this is the fault of a long twisty continent with little elbow room. To get anywhere requires tresspassing which AIs frequently break and so tempers obviously got a little frayed.