Computer Wars

[DarkHawke]

Well, I've been running into an interesting situation. I've played 4 games of Civ3 since it came out, and have yet to ever see the computer fight anyone but me. Not once have I even noticed a skirmish between computer foes, much less an actual war.

That makes things a little more difficult, as they seemingly do nothing but spew out military units so that they can wander back and forth across my land non-stop (*insert CtP1 flashback here*). Without wars between the computer civs, there's no attrition of those units, and it really gets rather difficult to keep up .

For example, I had 30 cities and 250 units, and STILL had the smallest army in the game! I wanted to declare war, but that would have been a bit ugly with perhaps 300 units wandering around my territory randomly. (All telling them to get out does is move them just over the nearest border, and they promptly move back in.)

Anyway, any idea why I've never seen the computer fight itself? I've been playing difficulties from Warlord to Regent. (On a side note, first game was on Regent, was embarrassing how fast that taught me that my SMAC strategies weren't going to work!)

[shark]

I've DEFINATELY seen civs fighting each other
it's definately not a bug, however, the fighting has been drastically toned down, that may be the problem you are seeing
if you run a large {or huge} world and fewer than max civs you may not see many battles
try retiring and going through the history thing and you will see that other civs are indeed at war and are indeed conquering each other, just at a more realistic less psychotic pace than civ2, which was ALL about war
remember, this is a culture sim more than anything and you can even win with pure diplomacy, so the emphasis is less on war than civ2

[Kc7mxo]

Whoah! Have to disagree with you there. Just a couple hours ago I saw the Iriqous get ripped to shreds.

It all started when they wouldnt' trade me silk, unless I gave them my soul. (They might as well have asked for that considering what they were demanding!). I went to war, and razed a few small border cities, and siezed their silk resources.

About midway through my war, the other nations jumped down the Iriqous' throat. The americans, egyptians and french ripped them to shreds in their moment of weakness.

I think that the AI just won't attack unless it feels it can win. :-)

[Libertarian]

I think that the AI just won't attack unless it feels it can win. :-)

A valuable lesson for us all!

[KnightOwl]

The computer is definitly alot more ruthless in this game.. when they smell blood they go in for the kill.. otherwise they're content to sit back and send 100 units into your lands each turn.. you'd think after you tell them to leave for the 100th time in a row they'd get the picture? Really annoying behavior... Almost as annoying as having a computer city behind your borders and them having like 20 units inside the borders which constantly moving around each turn.. and you're forced to watch it.. Ugh.. Firaxis where is the 'I don't care about other Civs movements' option?

[Stretch]

I agree, it happens but its not obvious.

I had a very dangerout trade connection to Germany, Greece, and France. One road connected my capital to Berlin and from there the other two civs Suddenly I could not trade with any of the three, for no apparent reason. Turned out Greece, at war with Germany, had destroyed a piece of road way up in the german controlled zone and thus cut my route. Germany built it back about 200 years later..

[Akron]

Originally posted by KnightOwl
The computer is definitly alot more ruthless in this game.. when they smell blood they go in for the kill.. otherwise they're content to sit back and send 100 units into your lands each turn.. you'd think after you tell them to leave for the 100th time in a row they'd get the picture? Really annoying behavior... Almost as annoying as having a computer city behind your borders and them having like 20 units inside the borders which constantly moving around each turn.. and you're forced to watch it.. Ugh.. Firaxis where is the 'I don't care about other Civs movements' option?

I have the same problem. Especially annoying is when the AI builds a city on that one square in the middle of your empires that isn't within your borders, which takes away some of the squares that you could have worked. This really should be considered an act of war. And even more annoying is when the AI parades through your empire without a right of passage agreement. PLEASE Firaxis, make it an act of war if the AI moves back into your territory if you've told it in the last ten turns not to. I really would have hoped that after 10 years of civ, this annoyance would be fixed. What is the point of borders if they are meaningless.

[DarkHawke]

Actually, I've watched playbacks, and cannot see ANY cities changing from one computer civ to another- that's one of the things I specifically looked for.

While I don't mind the fact that the computer doesn't just randomly declare war any more, there seems to be a slight problem in that it's set to just pour out the military units. After a certain point, the computer really needs to make a check and either pick a war somewhere, or stop making new units (upgrading is fine).

I also REALLY like the idea of going back to something similar to a SMAC model, where re-entering someone's borders within so many turns of agreeing to leave is an automatic act of war. Right now, the only way to convince the computer to stay off your land is to annihilate the offending civ.

[Grim Legacy]

Hmmm that number (250-300) of units seems excessive. That many units would certainly slow the game to a crawl.

Anyway I haven't played hundreds of thousands of game years yet, but I too have not witness any AI infighting. A shame really -unrealistic and unfair. I had hoped it would do better than Civ2 in this aspect, but it got worse.

[ixnay]

I've definitely seen the computer go to war - in a 16 civ game, everyone but me allied against the Aztecs (wiped them out quickly). This mega-alliance turned its sights on the Persians next (gone) and then the Japanese (history). I'm glad they respect me for my high culture, because my army consists of infantry in every city and a carrier with bombers.

[DarkHawke]

Aye, 250-300 units does seem excessive - it was a really ugly military buildup, as I had 3 countries larger than me dancing through my nation at will. I had the tech edge, they had numerical superiority.

And while it did slow down my system a bit, mine's designed to handle it:

Athalon 1.4 GHz
256 Mb PC-2100
Various other neat new stuff.

Also, about 75 of the units in my army were the various garrisons.

[kimmygibler]

I've seen lots of wars between ai civs. I've had the English take over 2 othere civs before. This is no bug.

[The Andy-Man]

250-300 units also sounds expensive.....

perhaps it just wasnt convenient to goto war for them..... you want war so bad, ask some one to fight someone else

[Grim Legacy]

Originally posted by DarkHawke
Aye, 250-300 units does seem excessive - it was a really ugly military buildup, as I had 3 countries larger than me dancing through my nation at will. I had the tech edge, they had numerical superiority.

And while it did slow down my system a bit, mine's designed to handle it:

Athalon 1.4 GHz
256 Mb PC-2100
Various other neat new stuff.

Also, about 75 of the units in my army were the various garrisons.

At least the 255 unit limit from Civ2 is gone.

Regarding your PC: if the game bogs down on a 300Mhz PC to a point where it takes 40 seconds of waiting each turn, your PC will still make you wait 10 as well. Not exactly zippy either.

It's spelled "Athlon" by the way. =]

[cpbeller]

Well, actually, the game i am playing (huge world map, 16 civs), it is in 780 A.D., and i have found out about the first war (that i have heard of anyways)...The Americans declared war against the Russians. Then, they asked me to go to war against the Russians also and to sign a Right of Passage Treaty (the Russians are right below me on the map, with the the English right above me). I declined to go to war at that time, but then, a couple of turns later, The Persians then joined the Americans in the war against the Russians. So, they do fight, guess just not as much as before, and maybe now when they fight, they actually go to war for a reason...

[Blunderdog]

The AI-controlled civs most definitely fight. I've only played two games (Regent), but both have featured big-time wars. In the first, the Persians got way ahead of everyone and two military alliances (basically everyone but the weakie -- me) jumped on them, with everyone declaring war in a couple of turns. In my current game, the Egyptians and Romans have been going at it tooth and nail. I should know, as I'm right between them, watching the parades past my capital.

It helps to station a few troops along the parade route to block them out. At least the AI will go around.

[lockstep]

Originally posted by Akron
Especially annoying is when the AI builds a city on that one square in the middle of your empires that isn't within your borders, which takes away some of the squares that you could have worked. This really should be considered an act of war.

If it´s really just one square, a fortified military unit might help. Otherwise, make sure that your borders expand fast enough or found your next city a little bit closer.

[Diety]

He goes to war like he should. Not sure that he does in on small maps, I always play huge.

[August Borms]

I finished two games so far:

1) Civ2 Earth map, 16 Civs:
The AI civs weren't fighting amongst themselves until I decided to attack the Americans, after that everybody on the same continent started fighting for a while until the Americans were wiped out.

2) Civ2 Earth map, 8 Civs:
I was alone in the Americas and didn't make contact with any other civs until 1600 AD or so. When I did, I found out all the civs had peace treaties with each other, and each civ had 2 right of passage agreements with others, except the Egyptians who were a bit isolated in Australia; they just had peace treaties with everyone.

Again, the AI civs didn't start fighting amongst themselves until I invaded Babylon and allied with the Aztecs...

[Matte979]

This worked for me, to keep you borders working i realised that culture is really important then they respect you.

About wars and stuff difficulty seem important.. I play Regent and I have alliances and wars.

/Mathias

[squid]

Originally posted by Akron

PLEASE Firaxis, make it an act of war if the AI moves back into your territory if you've told it in the last ten turns not to.

Good idea...perhaps we should even extend it? Make it an act of war for any military unit to enter into enemy territory if it is not already in enemy territory.

I don't mind workers building trade connections, but I've seen that be considered hostile once.

[Blaupanzer]

The AI will fight each other. I played 8 civs normal random world. On replay, 4 civs had captured cities from other civs through combat. Two civs were at war with a third and fourth civ when I discovered them. One civ attacked me after my culture converted one of his cities. (He lost another for his trouble and sued for peace.) This all in my first, "test" game on the lowest level. So the AIs will fight. (I was aztecs (2 wars), the others were Iriquois (1 war), Americans (0), British (2), Germans (2), Russians (2), Egyptions (1), and Rome (1). And these are only the wars I know about. I noted they don't stay at war if the actual fighting stops. I also noted they don't trade much among each other. At least this is so at the Chieftain level.

[BiggN]

I just played a 16 Player game, i was ALLLL Alone on the Americas.

Before id even made contact w/ 1 Civ on the rest of the planet, a message popped up saying *or maybe i'd only made contact w/ 1* "The Germans have Destroyed the French"

So i can say that they DEFINATLY do attack other people