Tournament rules: Allow Stockpile Energy in the queues?

[SITS]

Thanks Mark! That makes a lot more sense to me now! Cheers!

[DilithiumDad]

My views on this are well-known. I was mad when I first found out about this bug, as I was into saving pre-designed build ques (still do this single-player). But the net result is just to speed the game along, especially those early turns when you are cranking out scouts, formers and colony pods. Later when you are making military, it's not as significant unless you are the one under attack and trying to make a unit per turn for defense.

Stockpile Energy does NOT unbalance the game in favor of the Hive and the Drones! These factions are both weak in multiplayer, especially The Hive because they can't pop boom. In single player, the +1 growth helps compensate for the lack of pop boom by allowing early growth before the pop boom era, which is iusually around 2150. In multiplayer, people are pop booming by 2120 and shaving a turn off the growth from size 1 to size 2 is not a big deal. Stockpile energy bug helps The Hive with spending cash but it does nothing for research, which is the main weakness except in team play. The Drones are not overpowered by the big because it does nothing for their huge research penalties.

[mark13]

These factions (Hive and Drones) are both weak in multiplayer

WHAT?!

I would actually say that the Drones are probably one of the very strongest factions in multiplayer - once you've gotten over your initial research penalty, the sheer power of Domai is extraordinary - especially considering the ease with which he can pop boom.

As for the Hive - they would be as powerful industrially as the Drones, but their main throwback is cash. Can anyone say "Stockpile Energy" ? When you consider the massive support and police bonuses as well, if you can get them going, they're a massive 'juggernaut' faction, as well.

If you doubt this, just look at the tournament results - there were five games with the Drones involved this season, and on three occasions they came out victorious. As for the Hive - two games, and on neither occasion were they on the losing team, with one solo win, and one team.

And research - what are probe teams for? Both the Hive and the Drones can churn these out en masse - and if you're really desperate, there's always gas to consider

So I personally think there is zero weight to that particular argument....not to mention that the bug unnecessarily balances the game. Yes, it speeds things along a couple of turns, but in tournament play, surely balance is the most important thing?

[big_canuk]

^

[mark13]

^bump^

Does no-one have anything further to say on this?

[H0bbes]

No.

[johndmuller]

Mark13,

I'm not sure why you think that the (theoretical) Option 3 - Mandatory Queue entry after Facilities is any more MM than Option 1 - Mandatory empty Queue after Facilities or Option 2 - Mandatory Stockpile Energy after Units. Surely you agree that my rephrasing of the options reflects reality for MP? Not that I really expect to drum up support for a write in (what form would that take anyway, massive spamming of this thread with posts like this ?)

Given that under any of the options you have to check every base every turn (or at the least, the ones about to finish builds), to make sure that the queue either does or does not contain something where is the difference? If you say (under the current rules): "It's simple, just never put anything into the queue", I can't buy that because I now have to (a) keep track of my plans for each base somewhere else and (b) make sure that I remember to start producing (the right) something when the build is done. I doubt that I am the only one who thinks ahead to the next build, so people probably know what to put into the queue and so you couldn't say: "but what will people put into the queue?". After all, the queue is there to help reduce MM, and having to avoid using it and keep your own external version seems to be a step in the wrong direction.

There are other reasons for not using the queue, like giving away your plans to any infiltrators (although one could plant false plans in there) or having obsolete units getting produced when you forget to update the contents of the queue or having the same old units getting produced over and over if you forget to check if it got empty. I suppose that there are also occasions for intentionally Stockpiling Energy and thus to want to put it into the queue so that you would remember to do it.

Anyway, I didn't want poor old Option 3 to feel that I wasn't protecting its honor.

[big_canuk]

^

[mark13]

jdm,

Sorry about the late reply - I missed your post the first time round.

What I'm saying is, in essence, leave the rules as the are. Yep, you can set queues - the way I construed it, neither Ops. 1 nor 2 required you to put SE in the queue (or leave it empty) - if you want to use queues, that's fine, but after facilities, by doing so, you would get a small energy loss. As for no empty queues - I, for one, would find it a real pain to have to check for no empty queues, as later on, it would simply be a chore. And a time-wasting one, at that. Frankly, I would not enjoy cycling through 50 bases one at a time, checking that each and every one has something in the queue. Neither would I enjoy crawling out of bed the next morning, having been up til God-knows-what-hour playing my turns.

We will not find a perfect solution to this - Option 3 is absolutely fair, and gives a fair account of the game as it should be played, but generally suffers wrt practicality. Option 2 unbalances the game, IMO - the reasons why are above. Therefore, option 1 would seem to be the compromise. There are still some game balance issues, but not sufficient to cause serious problems (it favours builders slightly, but then again, builders tend to focus on energy rather than minerals) , and it represents the least MM for the user. It would seem to me to be the sensible solution, that's all.

[Tau Ceti]

Well, two weeks have passed since the poll was posted. The final results can hardly be seen as a resounding endorsement for either option. But, because the current rule received a slight majority, and because those who abhor it should have no problem finding other games that use the other option, inserting Stockpile Energy into production queues remains forbidden.

[Misotu]

I'm glad the difference was two votes, and not one. Very poor timing, being off-line while this was running!

[Tau Ceti]

Ah, my evil plan worked perfectly



Seriously, your absence was a bit longer than I thought it would be, and I had expected to see you in here. I have to say the results surprised me a bit...

[big_canuk]

Rats, closed already. I didn't have time to put a post over on ACOL to invite a dozen Acolytes to come over and vote!

[knowhow2]

How could it be only 38 votes in total