Gigantic maps : it is possible

Julius Brenzaida · September 23, 2000, 14:09

I have discovered that one can make gigantic maps by hex editing the first two numbers of the .map file !
The method was known for some time (sorry I don't know by who, the hero must have a statue somewhere) but it was, I think, limited to 10922 squares instead of 10'000.
What I have discovered (am I really the first, it's looks so simple) is that you can go up to 32768 squares with the mapeditor of civ multiplayer !!! And it works for ToT too. (but not for the other versions as far as I have been able to test it).

I have made a gigaworld map (127x230) by adapting the jworld map (100x100). Does anyone wants to see if the miracle can happen in other computers than mine ?
If it works and if the author of the Jworld map agrees, I will of course submit it to Apolyton.

And I am also working on a 143x229 map of the world.
It is quite an ordeal because the maputility which helps modifying maps doesn't go over 127x squares.

If anyone would like a empty gigamap and doesn't know how to hexedit it, I would gladly send one to him. Just tell me the coordinates you need up to a total of 32768 squares (and your e-mail of course !)

After I few hours of play, I can already to you that I like the challenge of conquering a bigger world.
So I if it works, I would be pleased to see other people producing gigamaps.

Roman · September 23, 2000, 16:14

If it works, it's amazing. I would certainly be interested. (Also in the world map)

Seeker · September 23, 2000, 16:35

Send it here, post a link!!

Julius Brenzaida · September 24, 2000, 16:08

Ok Roman, I send it to you right now. Feel free to ask if you want an empty map
Seeker, I don't have a site on my own and I will only submit my map to Apolyton, if I know for sure that it works; and as it is a modification of the map of someone else, if that person agrees.
I send it to you for testing, too.
Please everybody remember that it requires civ multiplayer or test of time.

Seeker · September 24, 2000, 18:35

By the spirits of my departed ancestors, it WORKS!

I will save this map.

A few questions: is it possible to make it wider, it is so tall...

I know it is geographically accurate, but there is this huge, useless Antarctic and Greenland/Northwest territories, and this tiny little europe!

Someone will have to shrink the super-poles and expand the equator.

I am very happy.

Seeker · September 24, 2000, 18:48

I can open it in the map editor...when I go to 'analyze map' it gives me a wierd message saying 'more than 64 land masses have been detected. You may play on such a map, but the 'intelligence' level of your opponents will at times be impaired'

Europe is really small, smaller than the normal earth map, while south america is huge, australia, canada, russia, ect. Maybe next time a little less northern/southern exaggeration?

Seeker · September 24, 2000, 18:49

The guy who talked about the false message in the map editor: it seems to be 127x2whatever in both the game and the editor with this map.

CornMaster · September 24, 2000, 20:19

I'd really like to try that map. Where is the link?
e-mail it to dacornmaster@hotmail.com

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Seeker · September 24, 2000, 20:37

Sent...

Johan T · September 25, 2000, 09:29

Could you send that map to me as well

Roman · September 25, 2000, 14:45

The map works normally in ToT as well as in Civ2 Gold. Ingenious.
Gameplay is much enhanced by this, it is a pity though one can't have more than 7 civs with such a big map.

Julius Brenzaida · September 25, 2000, 14:55

I am very glad to see it works !
I'm working on a 143x229 world map inspired by the original world map of the game. But it is so much work that I don't expect to finish it before mid october.
For my gigaworld.mp I was able to use the maputility (slightly modified by my own care to go over 10'000). But unfortunately it doesn't get over 127x squares. So any larger map takes a lot of time to make.
And I haven't got that much time to spend on civ II.
If you want to create a gigamap, I would gladly send you an empty map of the coordonates you aks, up to 32768 (for example 143x229).
Just send a mail to julius.brenzaida@infomaniak.ch

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Oh Man, when will you understand that your greatness lies in your failure - Goethe

Julius Brenzaida · September 25, 2000, 15:04

As my map works and is already spreading, I submit it immediately to the Apolyton database.
Its name is "gigawolrd". I hope it will be in the database very soon
If you “need” it right now, I can send it to you by mail.

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Oh Man, when will you understand that your greatness lies in your failure - Goethe

jcarkey · September 25, 2000, 20:23

Can you make a small map like that? The built in limit is 17xsomething I think. That would be a challenging Deity,Raging Hordes, 7 Civs to have a map smaller than the built in limit.

Could you please send me that Gigaworld map. It hasn't been posted yet. My e-mail is cpoland@mail.win.org
[This message has been edited by jcarkey (edited September 25, 2000).]

axi · September 27, 2000, 06:15

Is it sure that it doesn't work with 2.42? I thought that the .map files were common for all versions.

Julius Brenzaida · September 27, 2000, 16:51

Jcarkey, yes a smaller map can be done. All you need is to hexedit the first 2 numbers of the .sav file.
If you give me the coordonates you wish, I can send you a very little map. What a bloodbath it would be.
I send you my gigamap too.

Axi it won’t crash your computer but the terrain outside the regular limits is going to be weird. At least it is what happened when I tried with my computer.
I send you the gigamap too, so that you can see by yourself.

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Oh Man, when will you understand that your greatness lies in your failure - Goethe

jcarkey · September 27, 2000, 17:23

I'd like an 11x11. 10x10 is to small for 7 civs. 11x11 is still pushing it. This will be an extremely interesting game with the aggressive MPGE AI.

By the way, do the small maps work on 2.42?

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What if the Hokey-Pokey is really what its all about?

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Julius Brenzaida · September 27, 2000, 18:02

Yes, the small one should work on 2.42 too.
My mail has some problems right now.
I shall send you the small and the giga map tomorrow or this week-end.

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Oh Man, when will you understand that your greatness lies in your failure - Goethe

Mercator · September 28, 2000, 04:37

Axi: It's not the .mp files that are different, the maximum amount of memory that civ2 or civ2map allow for maps makes the difference. In Civ2 before MGE the max is 10922, the MapEditor won't crash until twice this number (21844).
The weird terrain Julius described is actually the undo buffer. What the mapeditor does is store two copies of a map internally, the current one and the one before your last edit. When you create a map larger than 10922 in the mapeditor that undo buffer will show up as part of the map. (But well, you probably didn't want to know this anyway

)

Could someone be so kind as to send me/upload somewhere the MGE mapeditor (DON'T send it to my Hotmail address rightaway, though, let me know first)??? That way I can serve the community by unleashing my mapmaking skills on gigantic maps.

[This message has been edited by Mercator (edited September 30, 2000).]

The Capo · September 28, 2000, 10:54

I would seriously love your gigantic world map, and if I need any downloads such as the files in map creator then I would like those as well. I am also working very dilligently (as in right now) on upping the number of civs in a game, it is definantly possible and here is my theory why.

Some would say the prescence of Arabs and Incas in the rules.txt are your clues to eight civs, however if you look at cities.jpg or whatever it is called for you, you will notice that there rae not eight, but nine flags (Red, White, Lght Blue, Blue, Yellow, Green, Purple, Orange) including a BROWN one, which would obviously either connote that they were considering putting in an eighth civ, or put it there so that if someone would find a way to hack the files for an eighth civ it wouldn't screw up the gameplay, either reason is cool.

Due to the prescence of the ninth brown flag, I have determined up must be possible to have eight civs, so I am working on it, if tihs is true then it would be awesome to play on a large map, the only thing is I doubt you can have eight civs on MP mode unless each computer is changed to accomodate the eighth civ, but who knows, so please send me the info to make a large map!

Miner · September 28, 2000, 14:32

quote:

Originally posted by Mercator on 09-28-2000 04:37 AM
Axi: It's not the .mp files that are different, the maximum amount of memory that civ2 or civ2map allow for maps makes the difference. In Civ2 before MGE the max is 10922, the MapEditor won't crash until twice this number (21844).

Err...has anyone considered trying this with ToT?
Since ToT has to deal with up to 4 maps, surely they increased the memory from MGE. I will leave it to your imaginations as to how big maps ToT could deal with

Julius Brenzaida · September 28, 2000, 14:59

quote:

Originally posted by Miner on 09-28-2000 02:32 PM
Err...has anyone considered trying this with ToT?
Since ToT has to deal with up to 4 maps, surely they increased the memory from MGE. I will leave it to your imaginations as to how big maps ToT could deal with

Well, Miner. Maybe it's true that they increased the memory in ToT, but they didn't provide the mapeditor to go with. So one has to go with the limitations of MGE. On the other hand, you can have a 4 gigamaps challenge with ToT. Quite a lot of squares to conquer

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Oh Man, when will you understand that your greatness lies in your failure - Goethe

Julius Brenzaida · September 28, 2000, 16:34

Capo, Axi, Jcarkey, I’ve send you the gigamap

Capo, good luck for your research of the lost 9th civ. I am afraid that, although there is a brown flag, it will be hard. Civ are 1-7, 0 being the barbarians. So there’s already 8, a perfect binary.
Many researchs have been done to try to play as the barbarians. I discovered (I think) one myself. Unfortunately, they cannot act as a real civ. See this thread for more (discouraging) informations : http://apolyton.net/forums/Forum4/HT...tml?date=19:44
But keep on trying. If you believe the impossible, the uncredible can become true.

To make a gigamap, it’s easy though. Hex edit the .mp file. The 1st 2 numbers are the coordinates, for example my map is FE 00 (254) E6 00 (230). The x number must always be even and is always the double of what is indicated in the map editor. I’m not the one who had this bright idea. All I made was the mistake to miscalculate and to discover that it worked over the believed limit of 10922, which indeed the limit but only up to civ FW. MGE and ToT can go up to 32768.

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Oh Man, when will you understand that your greatness lies in your failure - Goethe

jcarkey · September 28, 2000, 20:16

Julius, you forgot to send me the 11x11 map.

jcarkey · September 28, 2000, 20:56

I'm sorry to dissapoint you all right now, but I can't get the tiny maps to work. It says it ERR_MEMALLOCFAILED and then it complains about the 76 line

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What if the Hokey-Pokey is really what its all about?

Contact me at cpoland@mail.win.org

Eternal · September 28, 2000, 21:23

Julius or someone, can you send me the map they are all talking about? I will place it on my geocities page and place a link so everyone can see this.

Also I wish you had come out with this two months ago when I really needed a bigger map for the scenario I'm working on now! Oh well maybe for the sequel, eh?
[This message has been edited by Eternal (edited September 28, 2000).]

jcarkey · September 28, 2000, 21:28

Eternal, I just sent you the map. I'm sorry that I forgot to .zip it.

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What if the Hokey-Pokey is really what its all about?

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Eternal · September 28, 2000, 21:58

Okay, anyone who wants it can download it from the URL below. It zipped up real nice, as maps often do.

And it is true that the most important parts of that map seem only slightly bigger than in the original world map. This should be looked at.

Use Open Location with this URL:
http://www.geocities.com/societyeternal/gigaworld.zip
[This message has been edited by Eternal (edited September 28, 2000).]

Julius Brenzaida · September 29, 2000, 05:16

Eternal, I can't reach your link right now.
I've submitted my map to Apolyton and it should be in the database within a week if I manage to do everything properly.
My gigaworld map (127/230) is much larger than the original, but it gives (too realistically ?) a great place to the oceans. One should enjoy magellan and railroads.
I'm currently working on a maxiworld map (143/229) based on the original civ2 one, where there will be greater landmasses. Some patience please ...

JCarkey, I'm not forgetting you, hopefully this week-end, I'll be able to try to make your small map. But can't a single continent surrounded by an ocean in a flat world (no poles) do the trick ?

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Oh Man, when will you understand that your greatness lies in your failure - Goethe

jcarkey · September 29, 2000, 08:51

Julius, maybe it's the jworld that won't work small. I think I'm going to try a tiny random map. Or a tiny no ocean map. The problem I think is that it can't be compressed. The large maps can be expanded but there's distortion.

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What if the Hokey-Pokey is really what its all about?

Contact me at cpoland@mail.win.org