Thread Tools
Old November 6, 2001, 01:35   #1
Alexander's Horse
Civilization II MultiplayerApolytoners Hall of Fame
Deity
 
Alexander's Horse's Avatar
 
Local Time: 02:10
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Dec 1969
Location: In a tunnel under the DMZ
Posts: 12,273
How many of you would admit
That you're frustrated with the game because you haven't bothered to read the manual and don't understand it yet.
__________________
Any views I may express here are personal and certainly do not in any way reflect the views of my employer.

Look, I just don't anymore, okay?
Alexander's Horse is offline  
Old November 6, 2001, 01:49   #2
yin26
inmate
Apolytoners Hall of Fame
Born Again Optimist
 
yin26's Avatar
 
Local Time: 12:10
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: This space reserved for Darkstar.
Posts: 5,667
I read the manual. Save the last few pages of charts, it's worthless. Honestly. 200 pages of: 'This is how you move the map' 'Monarchy is a different kind of government from Despotism', etc.
__________________
I've been on these boards for a long time and I still don't know what to think when it comes to you -- FrantzX, December 21, 2001

"Yin": Your friendly, neighborhood negative cosmic force.
yin26 is offline  
Old November 6, 2001, 01:55   #3
marcuspeddle
Iron CiversCivilization IV PBEM
Emperor
 
marcuspeddle's Avatar
 
Local Time: 01:10
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Gangneung, South Korea
Posts: 5,406
He's right
Before anyone jumps on him, Yin is not just being pessimistic here; the manual is really not much help. It might be useful for those playing Civ for the very first time but for anyone else it's not much good. I'd try the tutorial to get used to the new game features. You don't need to read about them.
__________________
Formerly known as Masuro.
The sun never sets on a PBEM game.
marcuspeddle is offline  
Old November 6, 2001, 01:59   #4
Gandalf The Grey
Settler
 
Gandalf The Grey's Avatar
 
Local Time: 16:10
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Gondor
Posts: 9
I've read the manual and i'm still upset! The manual isn't much help but it does explain a lot of the new features....
Gandalf The Grey is offline  
Old November 6, 2001, 02:25   #5
Moral Hazard
King
 
Moral Hazard's Avatar
 
Local Time: 12:10
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: of jack
Posts: 1,502
Screw manuals, alls I need is nice spreadsheet with stats, and a reference card for the hotkeys. Of course I don't have either
Moral Hazard is offline  
Old November 6, 2001, 02:28   #6
Sarxis
Rise of Nations MultiplayerAlpha Centauri PBEMCivilization III MultiplayerCivilization III PBEMCTP2 Source Code ProjectCall to Power II MultiplayerCall to Power MultiplayerCivilization IV: MultiplayerCivilization IV CreatorsGalCiv Apolyton Empire
Emperor
 
Sarxis's Avatar
 
Local Time: 12:10
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Sep 1999
Posts: 3,361
For as big as the manual is, there seems to be a lot of vital information that wasn't mentioned.

It is still a good starting place for first time CIVers, though.
Sarxis is offline  
Old November 6, 2001, 02:40   #7
morb
Chieftain
 
morb's Avatar
 
Local Time: 08:10
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: San Francisco Bay Area, California, USA
Posts: 86
Quote:
Originally posted by Moral Hazard
Screw manuals, alls I need is nice spreadsheet with stats, and a reference card for the hotkeys. Of course I don't have either
exactly...
morb is offline  
Old November 6, 2001, 02:54   #8
yin26
inmate
Apolytoners Hall of Fame
Born Again Optimist
 
yin26's Avatar
 
Local Time: 12:10
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: This space reserved for Darkstar.
Posts: 5,667
Anatolia: Thanks for the backup! LOL
__________________
I've been on these boards for a long time and I still don't know what to think when it comes to you -- FrantzX, December 21, 2001

"Yin": Your friendly, neighborhood negative cosmic force.
yin26 is offline  
Old November 6, 2001, 03:18   #9
marcuspeddle
Iron CiversCivilization IV PBEM
Emperor
 
marcuspeddle's Avatar
 
Local Time: 01:10
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Gangneung, South Korea
Posts: 5,406
Anything for a fellow Caucasian-Korean! . . . . ?
__________________
Formerly known as Masuro.
The sun never sets on a PBEM game.
marcuspeddle is offline  
Old November 6, 2001, 03:23   #10
Leonid
Chieftain
 
Leonid's Avatar
 
Local Time: 11:10
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 61
These manuals are always purposely non-informative because they want you to buy the strategy guide. Always on a quest for more dollars.

Just like they don't put in Multi-play so you'll shell out another $40 in 6 months for Civ III "GOLD".
Leonid is offline  
Old November 6, 2001, 03:26   #11
tleilaxu
Chieftain
 
Local Time: 00:10
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 67
speaking of which....

does anyone care to make a .doc of all the hotkeys (including those not found in the manual) and what tehy do?
tleilaxu is offline  
Old November 6, 2001, 03:38   #12
Koyaanisqatsi
King
 
Koyaanisqatsi's Avatar
 
Local Time: 12:10
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: May 1999
Location: Robotropolis
Posts: 2,300
Quote:
Originally posted by tleilaxu
speaking of which....

does anyone care to make a .doc of all the hotkeys (including those not found in the manual) and what tehy do?
I would if I knew the undocumented ones...are there lots? The list in the back of the manual seems pretty good. (Even if the one in the civilopedia is very incomplete.)
__________________
"In the beginning was the Word. Then came the ******* word processor." -Dan Simmons, Hyperion
Koyaanisqatsi is offline  
Old November 6, 2001, 03:55   #13
Skanky Burns
Alpha Centauri Democracy GameACDG The Cybernetic ConsciousnessC4DG Team Alpha CentauriansApolytoners Hall of FameACDG3 Spartans
 
Skanky Burns's Avatar
 
Local Time: 03:10
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Skanky Father
Posts: 16,530
Quote:
Originally posted by Moral Hazard
Screw manuals, alls I need is nice spreadsheet with stats, and a reference card for the hotkeys. Of course I don't have either
Yes, for most of us here, we knew of most of the changes, and their impacts, long before Civ 3 was released.

As to the info we all want, someone on Apolyton will compile it soon... and if they dont, i will when i eventually get the game.
It gets released on the 19th in Australia, only 2 weeks waiting left
__________________
I'm building a wagon! On some other part of the internets, obviously (but not that other site).
Skanky Burns is offline  
Old November 6, 2001, 04:17   #14
ravagon
Scenario League / Civ2-Creation
King
 
Local Time: 00:10
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Australia
Posts: 1,515
Re: How many of you would admit
Quote:
Originally posted by Alexander's Horse
That you're frustrated with the game because you haven't bothered to read the manual and don't understand it yet.
I WISH all of the scenario/editting problems were a result of not reading the manual but unfortunately they aint.
Just like the "lack of MP" problems aren't anything to do with the manual either.
ravagon is offline  
Old November 6, 2001, 04:34   #15
mrbilll
Chieftain
 
Local Time: 09:10
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 83
Just for the record, the strategy guide isn't much use either. It's just a rehash of the manual, and what IS useful should have been in the manual in the first place. Can't say I'm surprised, but it was in the store, and I got it for the h**l of it.

I'd have loved a thorough reference card. There doesn't seem to be ANY one place where EVERY hotkey, command, and stat is documented. The Civilopedia has always been a great concept. But as others have pointed out, it's not a complete reference, and there's just no substitute for a hardcopy you can hold in your hand.
mrbilll is offline  
Old November 6, 2001, 04:34   #16
LaRusso
King
 
LaRusso's Avatar
 
Local Time: 18:10
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: May 2001
Location: appendix of Europe
Posts: 1,634
Quote:
Originally posted by yin26
I read the manual. Save the last few pages of charts, it's worthless. Honestly. 200 pages of: 'This is how you move the map' 'Monarchy is a different kind of government from Despotism', etc.
Manual is worthless, Civilopedia is awesome! Game is great, Chieftain opponents are kicking my behind and it really feels great to play

Poster in the LE is also pathetic and so is the cardboard thingie for CDs. Cheapos...
__________________
joseph 1944: LaRusso if you can remember past yesterday I never post a responce to one of your statement. I read most of your post with amusement however.
You are so anti-america that having a conversation with you would be poinless. You may or maynot feel you are an enemy of the United States, I don't care either way. However if I still worked for the Goverment I would turn over your e-mail address to my bosses and what ever happen, happens.
LaRusso is offline  
Old November 6, 2001, 04:37   #17
civmonger
Settler
 
civmonger's Avatar
 
Local Time: 11:10
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Indianapolis, Indiana
Posts: 20
UGH! the manual AND the strategy guide are incomplete and basically useless except to inform of changes from Civ2. Just play the game and learn that way!
__________________
Freedom without responsibility is Anarchy.
civmonger is offline  
Old November 6, 2001, 04:57   #18
Zanzin
Prince
 
Zanzin's Avatar
 
Local Time: 02:10
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 441
I found a few things in the game, the interface that is, illogical.

SHIFT key to acess queus is frusting.

also the fact that you can't move more than one unit at a time (unless it's an army).

Minor gripes, but frustraing.

Also, a quick game report - everything was going fine until the Germans declared war on me for not giving them my map. I thought - well, they're half a continent away, what can they do?

Kinda forgot about it until 15 german units showed up and trashed my empire. This was on chieftain, btw!! round abouts 650 AD.
Zanzin is offline  
Old November 6, 2001, 05:04   #19
Grim Legacy
Prince
 
Local Time: 17:10
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 624
Roger to the general opinion on the manual. Lots of text, but so little info. Except for the hard reference charts, the common theme is 'vagueness'.

Also agree on the interface quirks. Shift for the qeue... tsk.
Grim Legacy is offline  
Old November 6, 2001, 05:20   #20
Yaga
Warlord
 
Local Time: 08:10
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: USA
Posts: 176
Anyone have an index?
The manual is rather difficult to glean information from, but I think the most frustrating part is the lack-o-valuable index. Try finding anything about "Mobilization" in the index, what it does, and when you will automatically stop being mobilized. Look up "Advances, Modern" and you get the list of *optional* Modern Advances.

True, this is the manual for a brand new game, and one really can't fault those who wrote it if information was unavailable or changed between when the game when gold and their copy did. ( Afterall, has anyone seen the icons listed on page 166? They've been replaced with the cryptic D E P H S - see their placement on the screenshot from pg 167)

Worse, many of these items aren't even listed in the otherwise helpful Civilopedia. Considering that the manual itself says "Many people don't read the manual until something goes wrong" you would think there'd be a lot more help from both these facets of the game, instead of the user having to left click, right click, double click, and Ctrl- and pray, in the hope that somewhere they'll figure out how to contact a Civ that isn't listed on the F4 / Foreign Minister's Screen.

However, God Bless 'Em for putting the game out that I can b**** about it

Yaga
__________________
For some the fairest thing on this dark earth is Thermopylae, and Spartan phalaxes low'ring lances to die -- Sappho
Yaga is offline  
Old November 6, 2001, 07:25   #21
Alexander's Horse
Civilization II MultiplayerApolytoners Hall of Fame
Deity
 
Alexander's Horse's Avatar
 
Local Time: 02:10
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Dec 1969
Location: In a tunnel under the DMZ
Posts: 12,273
As a matter of fact, I have the manual - I just don't have the game yet
__________________
Any views I may express here are personal and certainly do not in any way reflect the views of my employer.

Look, I just don't anymore, okay?
Alexander's Horse is offline  
Old November 6, 2001, 08:17   #22
Solver
lifer
Civilization IV CreatorsAge of Nations TeamApolytoners Hall of FamePolyCast TeamBtS Tri-LeagueThe Courts of Candle'BreC4WDG Team Apolyton
Deity
 
Solver's Avatar
 
Local Time: 19:10
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Latvia, Riga
Posts: 18,355
Hey! I really have to agree with AH, can't help here. I read the manual before I played my first turn, and this has gone a long way in making me understand how the new concepts work.
Horsie, won't you bite me?
__________________
Solver, WePlayCiv Co-Administrator
Contact: solver-at-weplayciv-dot-com
I can kill you whenever I please... but not today. - The Cigarette Smoking Man
Solver is offline  
Old November 6, 2001, 08:30   #23
Alexander's Horse
Civilization II MultiplayerApolytoners Hall of Fame
Deity
 
Alexander's Horse's Avatar
 
Local Time: 02:10
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Dec 1969
Location: In a tunnel under the DMZ
Posts: 12,273
Quote:
Originally posted by Solver
Hey! I really have to agree with AH
*Horse feints*

__________________
Any views I may express here are personal and certainly do not in any way reflect the views of my employer.

Look, I just don't anymore, okay?
Alexander's Horse is offline  
Old November 6, 2001, 08:55   #24
Stuie
King
 
Stuie's Avatar
 
Local Time: 12:10
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Philly
Posts: 2,961
Re: How many of you would admit
Quote:
Originally posted by Alexander's Horse
That you're frustrated with the game because you haven't bothered to read the manual and don't understand it yet.
Whatever initial frustration I had with the game was due to both not reading the manual and not playing the tutorial. However, I did not come around here whining about it.

Also, I'll agree that the manual isn't that great. It really white-washes some of the game concepts.
__________________
"Stuie has the right idea" - Japher
"I trust Stuie and all involved." - SlowwHand
"Stuie is right...." - Guynemer
Stuie is offline  
Old November 6, 2001, 10:41   #25
Ecthy
Civilization II MultiplayerApolytoners Hall of FameSpanish Civers
Emperor
 
Local Time: 18:10
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Mar 2000
Posts: 8,491
Quote:
Originally posted by Alexander's Horse
As a matter of fact, I have the manual - I just don't have the game yet
I know the feeling...
Ecthy is offline  
Old November 6, 2001, 10:47   #26
Ecthy
Civilization II MultiplayerApolytoners Hall of FameSpanish Civers
Emperor
 
Local Time: 18:10
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Mar 2000
Posts: 8,491
Quote:
Originally posted by Alexander's Horse
As a matter of fact, I have the manual - I just don't have the game yet
I know the feeling...
Ecthy is offline  
Old November 6, 2001, 11:14   #27
Steve Clark
King
 
Steve Clark's Avatar
 
Local Time: 10:10
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: Colorado
Posts: 1,555
Quote:
Originally posted by Soren Johnson Firaxis


well, everything is in the manual AFAIK, but for people who just like to jump in, it might not be so easy...
Quote:
Originally posted by Soren Johnson Firaxis


oh, I also wanted to mention that the interface is designed so that you do not have to ever go to the city screen if you don't want to (in fact, that is how I play...) I am curious if anyone has been playing this way, or have the short-cuts been hidden too well?
Apparently someone submitted to Firaxis the brilliant idea that everything should be done through hot keys, thus eliminating the popups and pulldowns.
Steve Clark is offline  
Old November 6, 2001, 12:43   #28
LaRusso
King
 
LaRusso's Avatar
 
Local Time: 18:10
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: May 2001
Location: appendix of Europe
Posts: 1,634
Quote:
Originally posted by Solver
Hey! I really have to agree with AH, can't help here. I read the manual before I played my first turn, and this has gone a long way in making me understand how the new concepts work.
Horsie, won't you bite me?
You got a pirated copy? They were out in E. Europe on October 31
Manual is shite. Try finding what are prerequisites for minor wonders or something. LImited edition my a$$...
__________________
joseph 1944: LaRusso if you can remember past yesterday I never post a responce to one of your statement. I read most of your post with amusement however.
You are so anti-america that having a conversation with you would be poinless. You may or maynot feel you are an enemy of the United States, I don't care either way. However if I still worked for the Goverment I would turn over your e-mail address to my bosses and what ever happen, happens.
LaRusso is offline  
 

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 12:10.


Design by Vjacheslav Trushkin, color scheme by ColorizeIt!.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2010, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Apolyton Civilization Site | Copyright © The Apolyton Team