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Old November 7, 2001, 07:34   #31
Adm.Naismith
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Quote:
Originally posted by LaRusso
admiral, IMHO you can just as well go and buy it right now. it is very addictive and a lot of fun. plays really well. best civ game so far.
Thanks for your suggestion. You see, I still have some trouble to iron out before: a new (expensive) notebook to buy before I can run the game, the game itself available in Italy, my lovely wife and two sons that want my attention not killed from a game...
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Old November 7, 2001, 08:08   #32
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Ahh, old friend. Long time no see. I hope you can manage to juggle your family and gaming life. Maybe if you start teaching them all how to play now, they'll be ready to take you on by the time we get a chance to play Civ 3 MP.
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Old November 7, 2001, 08:28   #33
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my gf was psychologically prepared so she is still thinking that this will last a week or so
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joseph 1944: LaRusso if you can remember past yesterday I never post a responce to one of your statement. I read most of your post with amusement however.
You are so anti-america that having a conversation with you would be poinless. You may or maynot feel you are an enemy of the United States, I don't care either way. However if I still worked for the Goverment I would turn over your e-mail address to my bosses and what ever happen, happens.
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Old November 7, 2001, 09:30   #34
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My rating of the game would be B+ without the patch.
With first of sencond patch it would probably be A-
And, maybe after several more and Hotseat MP, I would rate it A+
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Old November 7, 2001, 09:34   #35
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hm, B+ for a pirated copy? i must rate it A- already then
btw, what does it say when you load the game? 1.07f or some earlier version? i am wondering because it appeared in Plato several days ago, so it still puzzles me....
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joseph 1944: LaRusso if you can remember past yesterday I never post a responce to one of your statement. I read most of your post with amusement however.
You are so anti-america that having a conversation with you would be poinless. You may or maynot feel you are an enemy of the United States, I don't care either way. However if I still worked for the Goverment I would turn over your e-mail address to my bosses and what ever happen, happens.
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Old November 7, 2001, 09:36   #36
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Quote:
Originally posted by Libertarian
Earthling, thanks for that info. What's the procedure for upgrading all units?
when u select a unit, even if that unit itself is not in a city, and cant be upgraded, if you press 'shift+u then u can upgrade al uunits of that type that can be upgraded.. this is best for upgrading all your defensemen if u have sun tzus
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Old November 7, 2001, 10:17   #37
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Good review, thanks. I was having some doubts as to whether or not to fulfill my preorder at EB, given what others are finding, but this reassures me to some extent. I will take it and Yin's forthcoming one very seriously when I decied whether or not to buy...
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Old November 7, 2001, 11:01   #38
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This bonus is more appropriate for Communism, since most of Communsit countries have been industralised very quickly, compared to other countries wich need much more time.
Exactly! Just compare say. . cuba or east germany (back when there was east german) to say. . South Korea, right? Or even North Korea to South Korea?
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Old November 7, 2001, 11:10   #39
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Nice review Korn, you made a lot of valuable points.

ya get the feeling that the folks at Firaxis got cut by that "double edged sword" in that they were handed this Giant of a game, loaded with hype, tradition and the rep of being perhaps the greatest PC Game EVER....no pressure there.....

... so we in the civ community expected a perfect game out of Civ3.... to be handled with the respect and importance it deserved. Meanwhile, someone somewhere in charge of the "bottome line" was saying to themselves...."We gunna be RICH!!!! All we have to do it print up some boxes with Sid's name on 'em, make up a Civ3 logo....and WHAMMO! MONEY MONEY MONEY!!" and of course they were right too. This game wuz gonna sell, no ifs-and-or-buts. Firaxis was in a no-win situation since there was a lot left to do on the game before the Christmas sales season. Korn did a good job objectively pointing out what is missing.

The game we got is fantastic, but its not finished and that's a shame. One of the things that made Civ3 top dog was the MP and the Mod community. Both are gone.

Has anyone gotten any word on when the first patch will surface?
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Old November 7, 2001, 12:47   #40
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On Communism and Industrialisation:

Someone makes the comparison of of East and West Germany and their rates of Industrialization.

I trust they are aware that the Soviets took every piece of industrial equipment from East Germany at the end of the Second World War, right?

One assumes that they would be interested in the rates of industrialisation of the Soviet Union and India as well... except that it doesn't look as good for the democratic country in that comparison.

Other posters have made the (accurate) point that Communism appears intentionally weakened in Civ3. Whether or not you think Communism is a good gov't system in the real world (it ain't BTW), the absence of Fascism and the weakness of Communism basically leave *no* choice in gov't style in Civ3. It's Democracy or nothing in the game .

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Old November 7, 2001, 12:57   #41
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Quote:
Originally posted by MidKnight Lament
Ahh, old friend. Long time no see.
Your fault, my friend. I was stable in Civ III long enough to gain "King" ranking and some bad opinion

Quote:
I hope you can manage to juggle your family and gaming life. Maybe if you start teaching them all how to play now, they'll be ready to take you on by the time we get a chance to play Civ 3 MP.
Well, my older son his barely 6, and as clever as a proud father as I am can consider him, it's a long time before he can play Civ III and win at Warlord.
I hope the Civ community don't have to wait so long for MP

La Russo, if a gf can love you AND live with your Civ III passion, better you rush for a marriage with her: girls like that are rare and valuable as Strategic Resources in the right spot on the map.
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Old November 7, 2001, 14:02   #42
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A good review, korn469. But I think you forget a point - the strategic resources. When I look at the game reports, to fight for the resources is an important part of gameplay. and the AI is also able to handle with it.
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Old November 7, 2001, 14:32   #43
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I have to agree with Cyril. The strategic resources kick much butt. I *love* having to trade to get the resources I want, and having that affect my foreign policy. The luxury resources I could take it or leave it... but the strategic ones are a great layer on the game.

For example, right now, I'm playing on a large map, but the Aztecs ended up with 5 of the 6 rubber resources. There's no way I can take on the Aztecs without rubber, so I cozied up to them and went after the Persians instead (and launched a royal 'ol world war which my allies and I (Aztecs, Iroquois and myself (Romans)) pretty handily won, while the Chinese sat on the outside shaking their heads I'm sure.

Incidentally this brings me to another point. Air power. Air power is just plain different, not better, not worse, just different (well except for the whole stupid air superiority bug). I tried a different tactic which seemed to work quite well. I didn't bomb a single city of the Persians during my war. Not one. Nope, I used my bomber fleet (started at about 9 and was about 20 by the end of the war) to destroy all but one road from Persia to my border, and then worked from there toward his cities, bombing every improvement and troop that I came across. I cut his cities off from one another by destroying roads and railroads, hit his attacking troops on the way to the front so that my defenses just chewed them to pieces, and *then* I sent in my tanks and infantry. I took a few cities before 1) war weariness was shelaking me back home and 2) he got mech infantry making my assault much more difficult.

In case anyone is keeping score, this is a tried and true tactic in the real world, you might know it as World War 2

Cheers,

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Old November 7, 2001, 14:33   #44
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Quote:
Originally posted by Adm.Naismith


Your fault, my friend. I was stable in Civ III long enough to gain "King" ranking and some bad opinion



Well, my older son his barely 6, and as clever as a proud father as I am can consider him, it's a long time before he can play Civ III and win at Warlord.
I hope the Civ community don't have to wait so long for MP

La Russo, if a gf can love you AND live with your Civ III passion, better you rush for a marriage with her: girls like that are rare and valuable as Strategic Resources in the right spot on the map.
hehe. so i should trade her for some wine then?

actually she hates civ3 but is hoping that my madness will pass
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joseph 1944: LaRusso if you can remember past yesterday I never post a responce to one of your statement. I read most of your post with amusement however.
You are so anti-america that having a conversation with you would be poinless. You may or maynot feel you are an enemy of the United States, I don't care either way. However if I still worked for the Goverment I would turn over your e-mail address to my bosses and what ever happen, happens.
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Old November 7, 2001, 14:37   #45
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For what it's worth, I just posted my "story" in Civ3-Stories of my initial reaction and Civ3 game.
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Old November 7, 2001, 15:46   #46
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Quote:
Originally posted by Schnitzelnator
Making a post just to state that you have the "second!" post is a clear sign that you've been walking around in the scorching sun for to long.

Thus my statement still stands.

RETARD
He was saying he seconds (agrees with) Corn´s opinion!!

Learn English before you flame someone, airhead!
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Old November 7, 2001, 15:53   #47
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Quote:
Originally posted by player1
I DON'T LIKE "government upgrading".
Agreed; this is conceptually wrong; the only thing I really dislike so far.
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Old November 7, 2001, 20:58   #48
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To LaRusso: Yes, it is a 1.07f
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Old November 7, 2001, 22:35   #49
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The biggest area where I expeience the difference between Civ3 and Civ 2 is in the "feel" of the game. Civ2 came across as majestic, inspiring, uplifting with the videos, end of game scenarios, etc. It gave me a sense of participating in the evolution of civilization (no matter how many times I play it). I don't get this at all in Civ3. The Civ3 end of game screen with the warrior swinging a club to ring the bell seems so like a carnival - and VERY disappointing after hours of game play. Haven't launched a space ship yet so don't know what that's like. I've been losing in the 1600-1700s and am now playing at Warlord to see what a "win" is like. (P.S. I really like that winning or losing is recorded in the Hall of Fame)
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Old November 7, 2001, 23:16   #50
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Congratulations for the nice review, which covers 80-90% of what I think of the game so far. And it's like what I have already said: Civ III is very good and addictive, but not revolutionary. The bugs are minor and shall be easily fixed.
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Old November 8, 2001, 00:28   #51
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Quote:
i have yet to find a list of hotkeys in the game
Took me a while to stumble across it in the civlipedia... it's under
Game Concepts as Hot Keys : Game Controls and Hot Keys : Unit Commands

Some nice hidden commands like auto-terraforming 'virgin' squares only and auto-building a road to a square.

Oh yeah, good review too

Last edited by habitualuser; November 8, 2001 at 00:57.
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Old November 8, 2001, 00:41   #52
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Quote:
From review

One of the main problems is that the player has to access some functions with hotkeys. Upgrade is one of those functions. Without knowledge of the hotkeys (which i have yet to find a list of hotkeys in the game)
This is simply not true. If you select unit and unit is in the city with barracks, then you will be able to see upgrade button at the bottom of the screen. RTFM!
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Old November 8, 2001, 01:47   #53
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MxM

honestly in all of my playing i never came across the upgrade key till i went looking for it after writing the review, and i had looked hard before the review

most likely there were problems i encounted, like not having a special resource needed to build the unit i was upgrading to, or something of this nature

however i am only partially wrong, because there is no way to select upgrade all (ctrl-shift-u) using the mouse alone, so take that (or at least point it out to me)

the main problem is when there is a problem the game doesn't inform the player what the problem is...i can give you a save game where i have all of my war chariots in a city in the early 1900's and i would like to upgrade them, but since i don't have access to iron i can't build knights, yet the game doesn't inform me of that, i had to go back and piece it together after i wrote the review, plus there is no way to upgrade seriously out of date units directly to a more modern unit...a war chariot has to become a knight, a knight has to become cavalry, and cav doesn't upgrade

also can u tell me the logic in this list

marine (oil, rubber)
paratrooper (oil, rubber)
warrior
horseman (horses)
longbowman
mech infantry (oil, rubber)
modern armor (oil, rubber)
war chariot

ok i can see logic behind it but i don't agree with it
because of the upgrade system, warriors or swordmen will always be in the build que since a warrior upgrades to swordsmen and a swordman doesn't upgrade, that means as long as your civ has a source of horses that either horsemen or cavalry (if you have saltpeter) will be in the build que, and no matter what a longbowman will always be in the build que...this shouldn't be the case obsolete units should not be in the build que, and this is an easy fix

another warning that the game doesn't give is the four city limit on armies...if you have a great leader and only three cities it won't tell you why you can't upgrade, this is a lack of polish on the user interface, if you can't perform an action the game should tell you why

there is one thing i glossed over, and that is AI...i am still forming an opinion of it, but so far it seems greatly improved
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Old November 8, 2001, 04:16   #54
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Good, but too pessimistic. Lack of MP and scenarios? Civ has always been for SP, AI is good, and MP will come - not a complaint. As for scenarios, I couldn't get myself to enjoy those. I played some in Civ 2, but couldn't like them. I only can enjoy standard games in Civ, though I love scenarios in RTS.
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Old November 8, 2001, 04:48   #55
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Quote:
Originally posted by korn469
MxM

...


however i am only partially wrong, because there is no way to select upgrade all (ctrl-shift-u) using the mouse alone, so take that (or at least point it out to me)
Well, you did not say upgrade ALL in you original review.

And I agree that the game do not say some things. But with such complex game I guess it is difficult to foresee all those details. Of cause it would be nice if you can ask your advisers "why I can not upgrade this unit" and get intelligent answer. But it is game and not Microsoft Office help system.
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Old November 8, 2001, 07:30   #56
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Great review Corn.

here is my take on civ (from your review)


How can civ III redefine the genre if it was made as a conservative sequel? So I'd say that your highest bar was a bit too high, but that's just your choice.

Civ III seems to give us many new options to play, and a few new concepts. Game still seems to be one of the most playable games ever. And this is the first release, which was a bit rused, still there are no major problems, just a few minor ones.

The one you listed 16 civs on a huge map with pII 400 is not really a problem, as they were thinking to release a game with 8 civs only if you play with less civs you'll be allright. That is just a system issue (a lot of computation) rather than a game issuse in my view. Maybe they should up the recommended configuration (not the minimal).

MP will come, and firaxis will support the game. In my view from what you wrote the game deserves an A, and I can't wait for the 16th...

What the game doesnt have is: major gameplay flaws, instability, "idiot AI", any other major disturbance to play to what I read so far. (apart form that deity cheat win, which can be fixed in a patch, but is just a chaet afterall there is no AI that cannot be cheated, apart from chassmaster )

All that it lacks (but needs) seems that it can be/ will be added:
MP, better scenario editor (some Firaxian mentioned scripting lang. ala Starcraft but not yet confirmed), further patches, fix for air combat can be done, and I guess resource model etc.

My only major concern for long term replayability could be the "scripting language support is not certain at this time" so that real modders can alter AI behaviour significantly, and some other gameplay features. But if the Firaxis decide to support it - I guess this is an A for the game.

All the rest seems that is/ will be done if there is a need for it.

My take form your review is:

THE BEST GAME EVER JUST GOT BETTER!

That deserves an A in my book.

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Old November 8, 2001, 08:03   #57
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Quote:
Originally posted by OneFootInTheGrave
What the game doesnt have is: major gameplay flaws, instability, "idiot AI", any other major disturbance to play to what I read so far.
Have a look at the top thread in the Help forum, if nothing else.
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Old November 8, 2001, 08:22   #58
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Have a look at the top thread in the Help forum, if nothing else.
OK... puitting me down a litte, so some systems have instability issues, but still no major bugs. (just minor, ok it depends how you look at it) Well still I think that this doesn't ruin the gameplay (unlike CTP) in most cases, at least it didn't for Korn and Yin. (and I hope most of the rest)
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Old November 9, 2001, 09:16   #59
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Thank you Korn469 for a very thoughtful and intelligent review. I don't agree with you on multiplayer or scenarios, though. I personally don't care about multiplayer and I prefer to set my own game parameters rather than play canned scenarios.

But I appreciate it that you actually invested some time in the game before writing your review, instead of flaming away after five minutes of tinkering. You make a lot of very good points and some valid criticisms.

For me, CivIII definitely has the "just one more turn" feel, and that's very important. It installed smoothly and runs smoothly on my 400 MHz AMD K-6 with 128 MB of RAM, with no crashes so far.

I even let my dinner burn the other night while playing, which is pretty silly considering that in a turn-gased game you can stop any time you want and go turn off the stove.
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Old November 9, 2001, 10:26   #60
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Has anyone noticed that Civ3Edit looks EXACT LIKE Starcraft scenario editor.
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