LE scandal - Firaxians, there has to be an explanation to 75,000 customers!

[CDN_Harbinger]

Rasbelin,

From what I initially read were the contents of LE, from a friend who bought LE, from the majority of the posts here... You are not missing much in not having access to the LE version. In fact you should count your lucky stars you are not in a position to be tempted to purchase LE and throw away your hard earned monetary units.

As for the LE version itself: I cancelled my pre-order after learning the exact contents of the tin. I felt ashamed at the time to be cancelling a CIV pre-order, but admittedly feel much better now.

In whole, I am becoming quite disenfranchised with the whole gaming industry. Is it so impossible to forego the almighty and immediate $buck$ to wait a little longer and release a quality, refined, and nearly bugless game? And the game magazine reviews make me sick! It's like every reviewer is afraid of being critical, even remotely critical, about a game in fear they won't get any pre-release goodies in the future.

Sorry, for the rant. I just got to thinking about everything...

[TCO]

Of COURSE the companies want to make a buck. What are you, 12? Or a socialist? As long as the market accepts their products they will deliver to that market. What do you think would happen if they tried producing perfect products (with major cost overruns)? They would go out of business.

[CDN_Harbinger]

GP,

You are absolutely right! It is much better to be mindless sheep and simply accept what ever the gaming industry feeds us.

What's that? A Pac-Man remake is being released where our faithful hero is now coloured blue instead of yellow. Quick, everybody to the pre-order desk!

What a load of crock!

I am not a socialist, and I am not 12. But, there are some principles at stake here. Infogrames/Firaxis released an incomplete and poor LE tin. (I won't even get started on what I think is a fairly incomplete and buggy game.) If you want to happily feed the beast, feel free! Others, like myself, are not so eager...

[Earthling7]

First, let me say that I enjoy the game immensely. I recognise eye-popping evidence of a rush-job, but there will be patches and the inevitable add-on. Now, to the topic at hand.

I think I should have become a freaking priest. Why? I'm too emotional. That's why! I've been a Civ fan since the beginning. Ten years of love for the game and death to my enemies . As a fan would, I decided I deserved the LE. I pre-ordered it. I thought of all the exclusive goodies, even dreamed of tin-settlers.
Then came the first blow. They were not shipping it to Europe. Drama. I checked my account at Amazon every five minutes, eating nothing but my fingernails. On 1 November it shipped. Sure, I was paying almost double price for it, compared to buying the SE here, but it would be worth it, surely.
Then this. It still isn't here. Hopefully tomorrow. It's too late to cancel the order, and returning it would cost me the shipping anyway.

Funny thing is, I'm not even angry. I'm just sad. Sad and disappointed. Infogrames means nothing to me, but to see Firaxis betray their loyal customers like this (they are the ones buying the LE) is just saddening. Especially when one compares this with the standard SMAC box. They may claim to know nothing, but how can they not care? Thy have spent years creating this game and they couldn't care less how it's presented to their customers?

No wonder I haven't bought a new full-price game since 1999 (CtP ).

[Seeker]

GP:

Do words like 'craftsmanship' and 'professionalism' mean anything to you??

Just because we live in a free market doesn't mean we have to be whores.

In my job, if I pulled a stunt like this i just wouldn't get payed.

Can you imagine going to a store and buying any other product besides a computer game and having to deal with such unprofessionalism?

[LaRusso]

Dan, thank you for your reply.
With all due respect, I really would appreciate if Firaxians would respond officially. LE was bought by the most rabid fans of the Civ series. I ordered it from Eastern Europe throught a friend in the US (it was a big thing to organize and a big hit on my budget, I can assure you) and it is the third game I have purchased for full price in my life (after Civ2 and Red Alert). I am not whining about gameplay, nor am I screaming about bug infestation and corruption (I am actually rather sick about having to read the same whining on the forums time and again). 10 dollars difference is not much and I KNEW that LE is not about rewarding Civ geeks but about milking them. Well, if I am robbed, it would be kind of decent to get at least what is stated.
While the quality of the poster is abysmal and the cardboard packaging of the CDs is apalling (I had to get them into some proper cases), and while I could not care less whether Sid just plays piano or is in the Hall of Fame (and loyal employees are improving his palace every day), I knew there were two things that I wanted LE for:

1) tin (I got that)
2) designer's notes

I got a piece of paper which is supposed to be a letter from Sid and Jeff, touting the game. Designer's notes it is not. Designer's notes should actually be a kind of a thing that we are painstakingly getting out of Firaxians here on fora and in chats (how AI works, how and why was something designed, or, for instance, will cutting jungle down prevent me from getting rubber later. Hell, even a list of minor wonder prerequisites and other data would be nice).
I know I do not have a decent manual to start with. The one included is really dodgy and useless. But at least I have something that has 'manual' printed on it. Designer's notes I do not have.
I would really appreciate, therefore, if you could bring it up with someone over at Firaxis. Although 'Infogrames does it all', I consider it a Firaxis game and, given Sid's reputation for controlling a lot of things, I intend to look no further for the reasons of these disappointments. I am prepared to go bug-hunting, interface tweaking and all - I do understand that even a car breaks down, but at least they do not sell them without parts they are supposed to have.
I am a lawyer myself and I do understand that publisher is legally responsible. Since your logo is on the case as well, I urge you to clear up this mess, nothwithstanding the fact that you are not legally responsible for this false advertising.
cheers

[phix]

Originally posted by paiktis22
Considering your copy of LE had to travel half the world on your expences I can say I understand your frustration

But there is worse: a guy bought the LE and there was EVERYTHING in it, except for the cd of the game...

Sounds like the guys at the software store forgot to put the CD back in after re-shrinkwrapping the box. I don't know if it's true anymore, but stores like EB allowed their employees to take games home, play them, and return them the next day, re-shrinkwrap and put back on the shelves as "new"

Now... if it was mailorder... who knows... some 10 year old girl in the sweatshop CD packing facility probably needed it to please her husband.

[klesh]

Originally posted by Alexander's Horse
The chart for civ 2 was so good I had it framed, sits right beside my comp so I can refer to it when playing.

Note the very handy placement of my CivII poster...
I need a magnifying lens to use the 'Tech Tree Napkin' afforded in CivIII.

[klesh]

Originally posted by GP
Of COURSE the companies want to make a buck. What are you, 12? Or a socialist?

Oh man, I think i might just have found myself a new sig!!!
Funny, funny stuff.

-FMK.

[phix]

Originally posted by CDN_Harbinger
GP,

You are absolutely right! It is much better to be mindless sheep and simply accept what ever the gaming industry feeds us.

What's that? A Pac-Man remake is being released where our faithful hero is now coloured blue instead of yellow. Quick, everybody to the pre-order desk!

What a load of crock!

POKEMON RED! POKEMON BLUE! POKEMON PUCE! POKEMON MAUVE! POKEMON PLAID!

DragonBall Z! 3 Episodes on 1 DVD $20! including 1 minute of *SOMETHING* actually happening! (I'm a fan of anime and all, but Dragonball Z puts me to sleep cause NOTHING ever happens, and it takes 40 episodes to handle one damn fighting tournament that seems to be more of a debate match with single syllable words.)

Remember the Game Boy? When it came out... It was black and white with a beige case. So they asked a panel. "What would you like us to change on this?" "Add Color" "Wow what a great idea!"

Then the next 3 years there was Game Boy's with color FACEPLATES. Yippee.

We let the whining 10 year olds get us into this mess.

Mommy Mommy. Buy this for me... it's SPESHAL! and it's LE!

I bought the LE edition. Don't know why. I'm not happy with it. But I love the game. No problems with my crappy 500MHz system. Ah well, an extra $10 I would have blown on lunch or something.

[TheDarkside]

only reason i got LE was to get my hands on CivIII a day earlier... EBGames had LE released 10/29 while regular civ3 at 10/30. Thats what I payed the extra cash for. Didnt care what was in the box as long as it had a functional CD, which it did, so I'm happy. Anyone want a useless tin box before I throw it away or use it as target practice with my SLR-95 ?

[LaRusso]

Originally posted by TheDarkside
only reason i got LE was to get my hands on CivIII a day earlier... EBGames had LE released 10/29 while regular civ3 at 10/30. Thats what I payed the extra cash for. Didnt care what was in the box as long as it had a functional CD, which it did, so I'm happy. Anyone want a useless tin box before I throw it away or use it as target practice with my SLR-95 ?

[kcbob]

Originally posted by TheDarkside
only reason i got LE was to get my hands on CivIII a day earlier... EBGames had LE released 10/29 while regular civ3 at 10/30. Thats what I payed the extra cash for. Didnt care what was in the box as long as it had a functional CD, which it did, so I'm happy. Anyone want a useless tin box before I throw it away or use it as target practice with my SLR-95 ?

I pre-ordered mine on 10/09 and am STILL waiting to receive it!!

The UPS web site says it went out for delivery to my house from the local UPS station at 9:18 last night. I was home... what, did they get lost in my neighborhood???

Here's hoping it shows up today.

[TheDarkside]

Ooh that royally sucks

Maybe the UPS guy knew what was inside and decided to steal your copy and is playing it right now!

[Earthling7]

It is 15:45 on Saturday 10 Nov. LE still not in. Hoping for Monday, fearing the worst. As I said, I will post a pic whenever it arrives, if it ever does.

[Rasbelin]

I suppose many of just has to get along with the
fact that we won't receive the LE, but I still
suggest that for instance Earthling7 would take
part in tomorrow's BTC Day 2, because we still
have some hope for a worldwide Civ III LE.

But I have alreadu bought the standard Civ III,
because I have a feeling that I can't wait for
the LE. Of course that doesn't mean that I
would abandon BTC or I wouldn't buy the LE,
if they start to ship it to us too or release it
in Finland too.

[Earthling7]

Rasbelin, what is the point? If the LE is as much of a rip-off as it sounds like, why bother with it? I would have cancelled my pre-order had I known how empty that tin was. Too late now, it's somewhere in transit.

[Yaga]

I bought the LE specifically because of the tech tree...and just found out that its inaccurate. It's a minor thing, but it is irksome to me.

Fold out: Recycling leads to Synthetic Fibers and Ecology
Civ III: Ecology is leads to Recycling, and both are required for Synthetic Fibers

Foldout: Space Flight allow ICBMs
Civ III: Satellites allow ICBMs

Foldout: Radio allows UN
Civ III: Fission allows UN

Foldout omits many small wonders
Folout includes some other unit on Magnatism
Foldout notes that Coal is seen with Steam Power

I understand that the foldout was valid when it went to presses, and that subsequent changes to the game were made to make the foldout inaacurate, but it would have at least been nice for the tin to include a list of these changes. I was only burned once when following the foldout instead of the Civlopedia, and then I started making notes about the innacuracies. But it means I bought to the LE for no reason, save that I got the tin. w00.

Yaga

[TCO]

To all the people *****ing at me:

Yeah I value craftsmanship and I value bang for the buck. That's why I waited to buy the game. What is it with you people that you can't wait a few days to find out the scoop. Is this the first time gamers have been let down. You're a bunch of shining gimme/gimme children. And that's why the companies rape you. Get a clue.

This rant is directed only at specified whiners. I support La Russo.

[LaRusso]

thank you.
dan, did you ask anyone there what happened to the designer's notes? can you send them to me via email?
also, LE features: 'new elements of culture, nationality and the ARTS'??? go figure

btw, i am playing game non stop and am not sleeping at all. still i want my DESIGNER'S NOTES

[Simpleton]

This is the one thing that I really dislike about Civ3. It's that the LE edition SUCKS!!! It is maybe worth 5 bucks more because of the tin but the extra stuff is crap. I would feel totally ripped off if the game wasn't so good. But that notwithstanding, I am deeply disappointed by the LE as a whole. I would not recommend anyone buy it unless you consider the tin worth $20.

[Gdiguy]

I have to agree with this... if it were the tech tree from civ2 i'd be happy, but an innacurate one that's so small as to be almost unuseable really doesn't constitute the extra expense...

[LaRusso]

there was one reply by dan so far. dan, i sent mail to askthecivteam and to firaxis and got no reply so far.

[Dan Magaha FIRAXIS]

Originally posted by LaRusso
there was one reply by dan so far. dan, i sent mail to askthecivteam and to firaxis and got noreply so far.

Sorry, I thought the news item that Mark and Dan posted had cleared this up; don't send questions like this to the askthecivteam box, as that box is only for pulling questions for the "Ask the Civ Team" feature of Civ3.com.

If you want to leave feedback, use the Contact Form on our website.

Please make sure you select the correct game you're comenting on and what the nature of your comment/inquiry is, as this determines how the mail is routed.

Thanks,


Dan

[Deathray]

Originally posted by Yaga
Fold out: Recycling leads to Synthetic Fibers and Ecology
Civ III: Ecology is leads to Recycling, and both are required for Synthetic Fibers

Has anyone else wondered why it is done like that on the tech tree? I mean you need Ecology to get Recycling anyway, so why does it show that you need both for Synthetic Fibres? To give you all some clue what I'm on about I'll do a diagram:

This is how I would do it:
Ecology---->Recycling---->Synthetic Fibres---->Stealth

This is how Firaxis did it in the game:

Ecology------------------------>Synthetic Fibres---->Stealth
............\___>Recycling----/

Ok, so the diagram was crap (the ....s were just to push it to the right to make it line up), but they both essentially say exactly the same thing: You go Ecology, then Recycling, the Synthetic Fibres, then Stealth, so why the branch on Firaxis's one?

[LaRusso]

Originally posted by Dan Magaha FIRAXIS


Sorry, I thought the news item that Mark and Dan posted had cleared this up; don't send questions like this to the askthecivteam box, as that box is only for pulling questions for the "Ask the Civ Team" feature of Civ3.com.

If you want to leave feedback, use the Contact Form on our website.

Please make sure you select the correct game you're comenting on and what the nature of your comment/inquiry is, as this determines how the mail is routed.

Thanks,


Dan

dan, my bad i sent first to askthecivteam, and after the news item posted here, i sent a proper mail to firaxis.
don't get me wrong, i do not feel that you should control marketing and production (and you surely do have other responsibilities) but there are tens of thousands of people who bought LE and found out that the tin costed 10 bucks. 10 bucks are nice but we are left with an useless manual.
so yes, the official one is sent but still no reply. i really do hope that someone will look into this.
thanx!

[TCO]

Originally posted by Dan Magaha FIRAXIS


Sorry, I thought the news item that Mark and Dan posted had cleared this up; don't send questions like this to the askthecivteam box, as that box is only for pulling questions for the "Ask the Civ Team" feature of Civ3.com.

If you want to leave feedback, use the Contact Form on our website.

Please make sure you select the correct game you're comenting on and what the nature of your comment/inquiry is, as this determines how the mail is routed.

Thanks,


Dan

Dan did you come to Firaxis from the DMV? Why not answer his question instead of telling him to get into another line.

[Steve Clark]

Originally posted by GP


Dan did you come to Firaxis from the DMV? Why not answer his question instead of telling him to get into another line.

[Yaga]

I understand your frustration GP, but there's no need to ***** at the Firaxis guy. How many designers and programmers do you know who not only surf their game's forums, let alone join their sites for chats, and all under the auspices of their company?

Man's trying to do his job. Don't give him s*** just because you're upset; doesn't help anyone resolve anything. La Russo, on the other hand, kindly asked for more information on contacting the Civ team, and was told the appropriate route to take so that it would get handled correctly. Yelling at Dan in the forum is like yelling at the person at the DMV because you got a parking ticket: They didn't give you the ticket, they can't help you fix the ticket or explain why you got it. The *best* and most helpful thing they *can* do it point you to the proper authority. Which will probably be in another line.

Next time, read the back of the ticket. Yelling in a forum isn't going to get you the same attention as an e-mail sent to the proper authority to address an issue.

My 2 cents,
Yaga

[TCO]

Originally posted by Yaga
I understand your frustration GP, but there's no need to ***** at the Firaxis guy. How many designers and programmers do you know who not only surf their game's forums, let alone join their sites for chats, and all under the auspices of their company?

Man's trying to do his job. Don't give him s*** just because you're upset; doesn't help anyone resolve anything. La Russo, on the other hand, kindly asked for more information on contacting the Civ team, and was told the appropriate route to take so that it would get handled correctly. Yelling at Dan in the forum is like yelling at the person at the DMV because you got a parking ticket: They didn't give you the ticket, they can't help you fix the ticket or explain why you got it. The *best* and most helpful thing they *can* do it point you to the proper authority. Which will probably be in another line.

Next time, read the back of the ticket. Yelling in a forum isn't going to get you the same attention as an e-mail sent to the proper authority to address an issue.

My 2 cents,
Yaga

NP Yaga,

I'm just being the "bad cop". Dan will take it with a laugh. He's not some wimp. I'll buy him a beer next time I'm at UMD...I mean DMV!