LE scandal - Firaxians, there has to be an explanation to 75,000 customers! - Page 3

DanS · November 11, 2001, 23:38

Maryland's DMV is downright friendly in comparison to DC's. Almost feels like walking into a Denny's...

At least he didn't tell to go talk to tech support about it.

LaRusso · November 12, 2001, 03:19

Quote:

Originally posted by Yaga
La Russo, on the other hand, kindly asked for more information on contacting the Civ team, and was told the appropriate route to take so that it would get handled correctly.

I know it is not his fault. I did write to Firaxis. I do not expect to get a decent answer. I kindly asked him to ask someone over there about this scandal, as I am sure that official lines of communication will not work.

Earthling7 · November 12, 2001, 04:33

Quote:

Originally posted by GP
I'm just being the "bad cop".

Dan will take it with a laugh. He's not some wimp. I'll buy him a beer next time I'm at UMD...I mean DMV!

Make sure he shares your sense of humour. Ever since, and before, Civ3 came out, Firaxis has been under fire for any issues regarding the game and it's marketing. The marketing isn't theirs, altough I am surprised that they are not aware of what's going on. I would certainly be more interested (concerned) with a product I spent years developing.

So game issues are their problem, yes, but it seems we're over reacting big time. The LE seems to be a rip-off (still waiting for it

) but the game is great! It needs some tender loving care from Firaxis, it's been born, but it needs to be nurtured into a full blown product, but we are not being reasonable.

Neither Dan, Soren or any other members of the Firaxis team are forced to attend this forum. Apolyton is a small corner somewhere on the web. Sure, there are fans here, but if Civ3 sells like Civ2 did, we are just a fraction of their customers. Don't flame Dan for posting, even if he doesn't answer our questions every time. I'm sure if he answered every question to the best of his knowledge, he would no longer be working for Firaxis.

We have to be reasonable when addressing them, otherwise they will simply stop answering our questions altogether. The LE/Release Date business is an ugly one, and we should not be afraid to ask them and demand answers, but personal insults will only backfire.

-------------------------------------

Now, will the LE buyers be treated to some nice juicy post-release goodies?

LaRusso · November 12, 2001, 11:52

so dan, what do they say back at the HQ? anyone ever prepared those notes?

Khufu · November 12, 2001, 12:51

Quote:

Now, will the LE buyers be treated to some nice juicy post-release goodies?

Methinks a proof of purchase of the LE should warrant a $15 discount on the inevitable "expansion pack", or "multiplayer edition" (insert marketing euphemism here).

TCO · November 12, 2001, 14:22

Dan...walk down the hall...knock on Sid's door. (Don't be timid.) Ask if the designer's notes were ever written. Return with answer.

LaRusso · November 13, 2001, 04:20

i think sid shot the messenger

scientist · November 13, 2001, 16:30

I think Civ III is a good product. A lot of the whining about various "bugs" is really symptomatic of people still playing Civ III with Civ II strategies.

I do hope that Firaxis is good enough to provide the same patch support for Civ III as they did for Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri.

But Firaxis should seriously consider reexamining its relationship with Infogrames. The LE is a joke. I bought it for the designer notes... and there are none included, though they were listed as included. The extra CD is marketing crap. Atr first I thought it might include some designer notes, but no such luck.

Remember Civil War? Now that was a game that really had some great documentation. A reference "cheat sheet", a well written manual, and a very stylish mini strategy guide. Even SMAC had a better manual and tech tree than Civ III.

I'm also rather shocked that Dan and the rest of the Firaxis crew have never even seen the LE! Really I would think that they would want to have some attachment to the finished product. I know it was in stores around me by November 1st.

Infogrames is hurting this product. I will think twice before buying another infogrames game. Unfortunately, I don't know if the shoddy Limited Edition also points to a new, worse era for Firaxis, where they try to cash in on their well-earned prestige by releasing, buggy, poorly supported products meant to milk their former fans.

I really do hope that someone from Firaxis will stop passing the buck and address this issue, before alienating 75,000 of their most devoted fans.

After All, Mr. Meier, your name is on the box.

TCO · November 13, 2001, 19:39

Quote:

Originally posted by LaRusso
i think sid shot the messenger

"On your sheild or with it"
-Spartan mothers' saying

adaMada · November 13, 2001, 20:02

Quote:

Originally posted by Khufu

Methinks a proof of purchase of the LE should warrant a $15 discount on the inevitable "expansion pack", or "multiplayer edition" (insert marketing euphemism here).

lol, spot on

.

On a more personal level, I did get the LE (even worse, wasn't planning to get it, spir of the moment), but I'm not so much mad as I'd just like an explanation from Firaxis -- just some semi-official thing about what's in the box, why it's not what was promised, and if they plan to make it up to customers somehow in the future. Beyond that, though, the game still seems awsome (or will be when they de-bug and add some features), and I don't regret my purchase -- I'd just like to know why I got what I did.

-- adaMada

scientist · November 14, 2001, 12:55

Adamada,

Like you, I'm such a civ addict that I don't really regret the purchase either. I've been too busyt playing the games to worry too much about the lack of design notes.

That is, until a BUG showed up that left a few hours of game play lost when some of my more recent saved games were corrupted and could not be read.

Hell, for a non-buggy version of civ III, I would have gladly paid the extra $10. The time I spend playing the game is worth much more to me than a few bucks.

Even so, false labeling and a buggy game are particularly galling. Worrying about having to replay the last 20 turns sort of takes the fun out the game. Now if I had my designer notes, I'd read them and just start a new game. But since they were a strike, and now this bug is a strike, Civ III now has two strikes against it.

I suspect that the programming and packaging were really a rush job at the end. I hope Firaxis and Infogrames prove me wrong.

monkspider · November 14, 2001, 15:15

This is a noble campaign Larusso, the designer notes were, believe it or not, the main thing I was looking forward to about the LE!

Earthling7 · November 14, 2001, 18:00

As I said earlier, I think a post-release compensation would be in order. Why not get someone at Firaxis to compile some stuff, drawings etc done during the design process? They must have some kind of a designer diary (anyone remember the DinoDiaries?) they could compile into a neat little book. Proof of purchase, and they'd send if off...

So far, we haven't even hear why, as late as October, the information was so wrong...

chris007jg · November 14, 2001, 18:22

I actually bought the le BECAUSE of the recent activity by game companies to put the manual in pdf on the cd and no anything else but the cd in the box. I also was under the impression that the stratagy guide was to be included. I know this was only rumor when I heard it and I am not complaining that it was omitted. What I am not happy with is that the game did not work on my laptop when I installed it nor on my friends new machine bought just to upgrade for civ3. yes he upgraded only to play civ3.
Anyway, I was very unhappy with the manual included and especially with the tech chart. The icons that represent everything in my mind was very very foolish. It is very hard to tell what any of them are until you just memorize it. Well hey. If i memorized it what do i need the chart for.
Basically I bought LE to get what should be included in the normal box. Not for these extra movies and stuff. Nor do i want drawing or the like after the fact. The game is what I want and what I have. Although I have never heard of a game other than fellow Microprose spinoff Imagicgames' Destiny that need a patch out of the box and had to wait for a month to get it.

MustPost · November 14, 2001, 18:40

Quote:

But Firaxis should seriously consider reexamining its relationship with Infogrames. The LE is a joke. I bought it for the designer notes... and there are none included, though they were listed as included. The extra CD is marketing crap. Atr first I thought it might include some designer notes, but no such luck.

Didn't Infogames buy Hasbro who had boughten Microprose?
I believe Infogames owns the rights to both the Civilization series of computer and board games.

Firaxis was just contracted, or sold the rights for one game to use the name Civilization III in a game.
Im not sure what kind of contract they have for an expantion game. But if a expention pack is made it, will be by Infogames choice will Infogames as the Publisher.

SerapisIV · November 14, 2001, 18:48

Quote:

Originally posted by Dan Magaha FIRAXIS
To be honest, I don't know much about the LE or its contents, other than the tin, manual, and fold-out tech tree, because I've actually seen them. We haven't even gotten our copies here yet, so I really don't know what else is or isn't in the box. Typically, though, the packaging and contents of game boxes are driven by the publisher, but I don't really know what happened in this case.

Dan, did you notice that the tech tree is wrong too? The UN is under the wrong tech as well as SDI. Did you guys do the proofing, or did Infogrames?

Comrade Tribune · November 14, 2001, 20:22

First of all, I don´t think LaRusso is a 'Disgruntled Individual' (Apolyton)

, rather, his complaint about the missing Designer´s Notes is entirely justified. Second, I don´t buy the given 'explanation' at all. It was Firaxis, who promised those notes in the first place, not Infogrames, so it was up to Firaxis to make sure they are in there.

Promises, Schmomises!

Sparky · November 14, 2001, 22:59

I am disappointed too. The absolute first thing I did when I opened the game was click scenario. I couldn't wait to see my "extra LE scenario" (I later found outt his was misinformation). But not only was there not an extra LE scenario... there was no scenarios period! WTF??? NOT a good first impression.

CheeseWhistle · November 15, 2001, 00:05

though i love the game, i too was disappointed with the LE version too. but now i am growing disappointed with firaxis.

this company should know that its fans are extremely loyal and forgiving. all they have to do is be up front and honest with us. with all of the complaints, many very rational, concerning the bugs, the LE edition, and the lack of multiplayer, firaxis' response has been muted and sometimes disrespectful.

come on sid, nobody really thinks you are a god ... we just want you to acknowledge any problems and let us know what you are going to do to fix them, and how soon.

we did buy your game? how about throwing us a bone?

cheesewhistle

Rasbelin · November 15, 2001, 02:04

Go, go, LaRusso!

Well, good to see someone is making noise of this problem. Sid's notes would have been enjoying to read, but I suppose Firaxis thinks that their competitors might steal Sid's ideas.

Apparently I'm on a quite sarcastic mood, but it's true that I'm also disappointed with the LE. As you might also remember the Biscuit Tin Coalition, I have already tried to fight against the infidel Infogrames, but apparently they can just easily delete any e-mails sent to them from their customers.

I'm still wondering why Dan hasn't even tried to figure out for us what's the problem with the LE distribution. At least he's a member of Firaxis.

Firaxis and Infogrames, it's time to explain!

TCO · November 15, 2001, 02:43

Rasbelin,

Maybe you will stop agitating to get something that is not much of a premium product??

Grandpa Troll · November 15, 2001, 06:33

dID SOMEONE SAY sKITTLES???

I Luv Skittles, I believe someone said hey got them in the LE Tin..

I didnt and I'm VERY Dissapointed...

but seriously, Im only upset same as a few others, that the LE was kinda lame, gave the Tin to my wife, Tech tree???.saw a foldout with CIVILIZATION on one side, small little pictures with no explanation on other side, if you know what they mean, good, if not your are S.O.L. (Surely Outta Luck), and nice

unusable CD case...N-O-T, That letter makes it all better..

from Sid and Jeff..

and designer notes..Nah...

dont see them homes..but alas....

I love the game and also a previous post prety much summed it up wih the analogy of a baby being born, now all we gotta do is "raise" our child, still love it

inspite of a few flaws....

Yours In Civin

Troll

Rex Exitium · November 15, 2001, 06:59

Quote:

Originally posted by drake
The game is filled with flaws and doesnt include essential components and this dudes crying about silly designer notes and manuals?

Its like that dude Jaundice said.....all that should matter is the game itself......all the other stuff is just fluff!

Fluff? Not when you pay an extra $25 for something you thought was supposed to be there.

Rex Exitium · November 15, 2001, 07:24

Quote:

Originally posted by TheDarkside
only reason i got LE was to get my hands on CivIII a day earlier... EBGames had LE released 10/29 while regular civ3 at 10/30. Thats what I payed the extra cash for. Didnt care what was in the box as long as it had a functional CD, which it did, so I'm happy. Anyone want a useless tin box before I throw it away or use it as target practice with my SLR-95 ?

Hey, if you're serious about it, maybe you can send it here to me in Malaysia.