Decisions, decisions

[Case]

Seeing as its probably going to be 6 months at the earliest untill scenario creation tools for Civ 3 are released, I need a new Civ 2 project.
I've got 'The Cruel Sea 2.0' to finish off, but all that involves is adding some more events (possibly to the extent of multiple events and rules files), so it shouldn't take that long

Here's a few topics I'm thinking of. I'd appreciate any feedback.

The American Civil War - IMHO no-one has ever made a definitive scenario on this. The best one is probably the Microprose one, but that has dodgy graphics, and fails to use the events effectively. The main problem is that I'm not American and would probably miss all kind of basic things (I have visited Fort Sumter though )

Gallipoli - Both the naval and land aspects of the Gallipoli campaign have the potential for a good scenario. The only problem is that it would take a lot of work, and if I made it historically accruate, it would be rather dull.

The Kokoda Track [the campaign in New Guinea in 1942-3] - Could be modelled well, but would probably prove meaningless to non Australians.

Crusade in Europe - about the Western Allies campaign in North Africa and Europe. I'm very interested in this, but not sure that the world really needs another WW2 in Europe scenario (even though you could play as the good guys)

Has anyone got any thoughts on what I should pick? (I'm leaning towards Crusade in Europe myself)

[Jay Bee]

Originally posted by Case
The Kokoda Track [the campaign in New Guinea in 1942-3] - Could be modelled well, but would probably prove meaningless to non Australians.

Not at all. It would ultimately depend on how much care you put into it. If the scenario is well designed people will play and like it, no matter what the topic is. The real problem is imho... don't we have enough WW2 and WW2-like scenarios already? A scenario that I would have liked very much is the English colonization of Australia (hint, hint). It wouldn't have to be a historical scenario, but rather in Cam's style (half fictional, half historical).

[SetuSinger]

Heres some feedback for the ideas!

The american civil war
I think, there are still some good ACW-Scenarios (for example Alex's), so this should not be #1 Priority.

Gallipoli
Very good idea! I think this would make a very interesting scenario.

The Kokoda Track
Sounds good to me!! Also because the ww2 in the pacific area is not well covered by scenario makers

Allied campaigns in Europe
PERFECT IDEA!!!! I would really enjoy a ww2 europe scenario from the allied site.

[master on high]

If you really wanted to make me happy, I'd say go for a scenario that allows you to do just about whatever you want. I mean, my favourite scenario is STILL the WW2 scenario Microprose made.

Don't make a war campaign where everything is just moving units. That sort of thing just doesn't play towards Civ's strengths, which are it's empire-building and geopolitical simulation (criticise it the particulars all you want, but warfare is merely a tool for political goals...).

If you really wanted to make a great scenario I'd say go with the Age of Metternich idea that Polaris and I were playing around with. I have the map with all the cities placed and some of the units that Polaris drew. That sort of scen (at least on this map) would make for interesting combat on a tactical level (I'm sure that there could be simulations for strategic areas like farms and factories rather than simply cities...sieges are rather boring), and it could also show the political strains of the time and it ALSO allows a good portion of technological development to occur.

All that would make a great multiplayer game too.

Just my idea though.

[The ANZAC]

I like the sound of Kokoda and Gallipoli a lot! They have never been covered and Kokoda I don't think loses meaning if you aren't Australian.

[techumseh]

Would you consider a joint ToT project?

[Goingonit]

Well.

Here are some more ideas. Of the ones posted I'd probably say Galipoli.

-Balkan Wars

-WW1 in the Levant (and Lawrence of Arabia as well, although he was really unimportant)

-Japan 1900-1940 (would have Russo-Japanese and Sino-Japanese Wars)

-Prussia 1860-1880 (try to unify Germany and take slices of France and Austria as well)

[Hobbes]

and Lawrence of Arabia as well, although he was really unimportant)

I started a Lawrence Scenario awhile back.

Anywho, I think you should dooo.... hmmm, well I really like your ideas, espically the Papua New Guinea one (and I'm a non-Aussie) and the Gallipoli one. Also, the North Africa and Europe one sound really cool too. I say do what YOU really want to do, the one that grabs you the most.

[ravagon]

I like the North African setting personally. Campaigns based around Operation Torch or maybe Al Alamein (sp?) or somesuch sound great.

[kobayashi]

Originally posted by master on high
If you really wanted to make me happy, I'd say go for a scenario that allows you to do just about whatever you want. I mean, my favourite scenario is STILL the WW2 scenario Microprose made.

Don't make a war campaign where everything is just moving units. That sort of thing just doesn't play towards Civ's strengths, which are it's empire-building and geopolitical simulation ......

Have you tried my WWII scenario, ZWK? It seems to be close to what you have in mind.

[kobayashi]

Originally posted by Case

I've got 'The Cruel Sea 2.0' to finish off, but all that involves is adding some more events (possibly to the extent of multiple events and rules files), so it shouldn't take that long

Case,

I just submitted a review of version 1.1 (you know where). You might want to take a look at it when it comes out before you complete work on version 2.0.

[our_man]

Case, I'm all for the Kokoda Track! I don't know much about it I'm afraid but it sounds like it would make an interesting scenario.

[klesh]

Don't have much time to post here, but I am a fan of tactical WWII scen's... much like Stalingrad. What about the Battle of the Bulge...or Wach am Rhine (note my aweful German usage). This would be a winter map. You could make it playable as the Germans, and have SF style settler-tanks which need fuel...whichj the allied have in certain depots. They would attach through the Ardennes, and the player would have to keep to the roads and such to advance. Many neat things here... Patton's releif of Bastogne etc.
Or, it could be simmilar to a RF type of thing with the Germans as AI, and one will have to fend off the German advances while waiting for armoured reinforcements to arrive. The eventual goal for the Germans was the city of Antwerpen, but they never got close in real life. This allows for a bit of alternative history too, if the player (or AI) as Germans makes it past their historical accomplishment.

Just a thought.

-FMK.

[Hobbes]

the Battle of the Bulge...or Wach am Rhine

Yeah!! that's an awsome idea for a scenario!

[Jimmywax]

I am going to have to go with FMK's Bulge scenario. I think that is a killer idea.

[Case]

I think I'll go with the Kokoda Track - mainly because its map will be the easiest to create (basically mountains, dense jungle, and swamp) and I can quickly put the scenario together using units from 'The Battle of Australia'.

I do like the idea of The Battle of the Bulge though, and I've always thought that operation Market-Garden could make a great scenario...

kobayashi, I'm looking forward to reading that review

[H Tower]

one idea i thought about doing a while back was the solomon islands campaign during world war2. the US marine 1st division fought long and hard to secure guadacanal and then the allies had to fight to get to rabul. it would probably only be playable as the allies though.

[Cal]

I'm having flashbacks to when Captain Nemo polled everyone on what his next scenario should be.

[Case]

H Tower I did think about making a Solomon Islands scenario a while ago. The real problem with that topic is that for it to be interesting as the AI would have to co-ordinate Air, naval and land attacks, which its just not capable of doing [then again, neither were the Japanese ]

BTW, Techumseh I'd rather stick to FW/MGE then change over to ToT

[The ANZAC]

Glad you chose the Kokoda trail, it can be really interesting to play as the Australians than the Japanese, because one would have to fall back and repulse almost like RF, except in a jungle and there can be outflanking. For example, you can make paradroping transports and they can be "transport aircraft" which carry troops like when the Australians airlifted to Pongani to attack Buna. Then engineers can build airbases which would serve as places for the transports to move around, though building airbases would take a long time.

[Case]

ANZAC, I'm planning on having only a handful of cities, each one representing an airbase and I'll use transport planes to move troops between these airbases. Has anyone got a C 47 Dakota graphic I can 'borrow'

I'm planning to the scenario having three events files, one covering the campaign untill the arrival of the AIF, one covering the Australian counter offencive, and the third covering the Australian-American campaign for Gona and Buna (often considered to be the worst battleground of WW2 [Stalingrad included])

[HisMajestyBOB]

I don't think planes can carry ground units. Are they going to be like the gliders in 2nd Front/Battle for Aulstrailia?

[techumseh]

Here's one I did for "Warlords of China." It's in ToT format, but you can reduce it a bit if you need to.

[Case]

Originally posted by HisMajestyBOB
I don't think planes can carry ground units. Are they going to be like the gliders in 2nd Front/Battle for Aulstrailia?

I'm planning to use them to ferry troops between cities.

Techumseh, that's great - thanks a lot

[HisMajestyBOB]

And PLEASE don't delay Cruel Sea 2.0, I'm really looking foward to it!

[Shaka Naldur]

Gallipoli sounds good

FMK and Hobbes,

don´t you have scenarios to finish?

[Hobbes]

don´t you have scenarios to finish

so true. damned school!! Ah, but Christmas break is coming up soon, goody goody!

[The ANZAC]

Just while we're on the track of mentioning scenario ideas and though case has already decided, let me just mention them:

Chindits and the Burma Campaign of WWII- a lot of cool features like paradroping transports and out flanking

Indonesian War for Independence- on the Dutch side. Could have a lot of combined arms strategy and dealing with guerillas and multiple factions

Belgian Congo- the Belgians would have to take advantage of the natives as much as possible, with resources and such. Maybe have to build a wonder in a zero production city with cash within a time slot. Intresting in dealing with wild animals, natives, and other Europeans.

Just my two cents!

[HisMajestyBOB]

I'd really like to see a WWII Allies scenario, the only existing good one is Third Reich, but there's not much variety in the units.

But you seem to have made up your mind. All I ask is that you have a variety of enemy units, unlike Battle of Aulstrailia (which was really cool, except the Japanese only used 2 or 3 units)

[Jimmywax]

Originally posted by The ANZAC

Chindits and the Burma Campaign of WWII- a lot of cool features like paradroping transports and out flanking

[

Funny, I was thinking about such a project the other day. Maybe we should bounce some ideas off each other.