Which civ was the most powerful in all history?

[Lung]

Seeing as Wulfram is so adamant that his own country is pathetic and insignificant in the grand scheme of things, and always was, i thought we should have a poll

I'm restricted to 16, so you may have to specify

You can pretty much use your own criteria, as some civs were more powerful at a given time, but perhaps only briefly, while others were less spectacular, but lasted longer. You may also give weight to lingering culture if you feel it's relevant (which i happen to think it is!)

[orange]

I would say the English, Chinese, Spanish, and Germans represent the majority of culture on this planet.

I picked English, as some of the most dominant nations (militarily, culturally, or economically) in this world have roots in English culture.

UK
USA
Canada
Australia
India(Pakistan)
Israel
Egypt
South Africa
Singapore

For China you've got 1/6 of the world population, as well as a civilization that has pretty much ALWAYS been dominant (in save a few invaders, like Mongols and Japanese)

Germany - hell the Western World IS Germanic!

Spanish - an entire continent (well, not Brazil technically...but if you include Central America and Mexico, this is made up for) has Spanish as the national language, as well as tons of Spanish culture. Spanish were dominant from late 15th century until the late 19th century (when they were truly taken out of the game).

All worthy civs, though Spain isn't in the game

[Faeelin]

USA. Because hwile the British may have invented Democracy, the US took it to where it is today.

[d_dudy]

this is just gonna start a fight..........and i'm fine with that!


USA!!!!!

[tleilaxu]

just off the top of my head....
relative to the power of other cultures at the time i'd have to say the most dominant culture in the world would have to be.....

Tang China (7th-10th centuries)

[Lung]

Originally posted by Faeelin
USA. Because wihle the British may have invented Democracy, the US took it to where it is today.

That's debatable. More like industry, military and economic. Oh, and McDonalds for the cultural factor Seriously though, i think your last election showed how flawed your democratic model is. Australia's model is arguably better, but not without it's flaws either. Perhaps East Timor, as the world's newest democracy, is the best

I'm glad to see that my inclusion of the Spanish has been vindicated

[ranskaldan]

I was really inclined to vote for Rome, Arabia or China. They were waaaaaay ahead of their time in terms of culture and technology.

However, in the end I voted for USA... because although its technology or culture isn't that way ahead, it is the only civilization in the world that has been consistently able to meddle/contribute/bully in every and any other corner of the world.

[jasev]

I've voted for the spanish. Why? Because I'm spanish, just like US posters are voting the americans. Did you think you were the only true-blind-patriots in the world?

[Wulfram]

Seeing as Wulfram is so adamant that his own country is pathetic and insignificant in the grand scheme of things, and always was, i thought we should have a poll

Insignificant, not pathetic there's a big difference.

In pure power ratings it goes, Romans, Mongols, then Persians. The USA doesn't get in for three reasons, first it shouldn't be a civ, second China is more powerful, third Russia or China could obliterate it and no country can be called powerful if it is so vulnerable.

[jdd2007]

either rome or usa. there was no counterbalance to either of them. if rome put its full power to fight against a country of its time, it would win easily (when it was in its prime). today, post-cold war, there is no single country that can stand against usa.

[jerkwaterbox]

USA should not be on here, this is about most powerful in history, they have only been around for 200 years

[fezick31]

Originally posted by jerkwaterbox
USA should not be on here, this is about most powerful in history, they have only been around for 200 years

so when does history start? The US has shaped the world as it exists today. There isn't a nation on the panet that set foriegn policy without considering the Americans reaction. Just because the US isn't as old as Rome or China doesn't mean it is any less powerful.

[Dauphin]

The US has shaped the world as it exists today

I disagree, the world is as it is because of numerous factors. But based on most notable contenders:

American influence only began on a global scale ~ 50 years ago. Before that the "British" were the primary influence for ~125 years.

England blackboarded the current state of the world, the US is remoulding it.

[ranskaldan]

either rome or usa. there was no counterbalance to either of them. if rome put its full power to fight against a country of its time, it would win easily (when it was in its prime). today, post-cold war, there is no single country that can stand against usa.

I don't think there's been any country in the world ever that was able to win 'easily' against any other country, even in their prime....

[Roland Ehnström]

English, well, maybe... but USA???

This just proves what I've always thought: The greatest civ on the earth is The Dolphins (and I'm not talking about the Miami Football team! ).

But my vote goes to the Romans, just ahead of the Chinese and the Arabs.

Peace!
-- Roland

[Arent]

1. Rome (Ideal State)
2. China (started already ~2000 BC)
... (way to go) ...
3. England (Commonwealth)

usa is hillarious.

Arent

[OneFootInTheGrave]

dont forget what was the question, I understand it as ultimate historic Civ... if you like historograph victory... than it would have to be China... and clearly in the lead. Second perhaps England, and third India due to its longlevity and size.

If you want cultural influence on the world, than it has to be English. The western culture/ main language are based on what they set up, but mainly it got rooted trough USA, but historically USA is just a child not even 300 years of influence. The least of all. USA is like Rome of ancient times who adopted Greek culture USA - English. Just they are very young despite their present day influence.


But Orange put it out very well anyway for the rest.

[siredgar]

Explain this to me, please?

[siredgar]

I voted "other" because I wanted to vote for the Mongols. Seriously folks, who conquered the largest territory in all of history? The Mongols.

They defeated the mighty Chinese and as a result, ruled most of Asia. They went on to conquer the HUGE MASS of Russia and threatened to invade the rest of Europe. If they weren't so unorganized, they would have had it all.

Of course, they're not the most "civilized" of civilizations, but their descendants later became the emperors of China and held on to power for hundreds of years. They've had a major influence in other places like Russia and Hungary.

Anyhow, why are the Japanese on that list and not the Mongols? If it weren't for bad weather conditions, the Mongols would have beaten them, too.

[molly bloom]

Originally posted by siredgar
I voted "other" because I wanted to vote for the Mongols. Seriously folks, who conquered the largest territory in all of history? The Mongols.

They defeated the mighty Chinese and as a result, ruled most of Asia. They went on to conquer the HUGE MASS of Russia and threatened to invade the rest of Europe. If they weren't so unorganized, they would have had it all.

Of course, they're not the most "civilized" of civilizations, but their descendants later became the emperors of China and held on to power for hundreds of years. They've had a major influence in other places like Russia and Hungary.

Anyhow, why are the Japanese on that list and not the Mongols? If it weren't for bad weather conditions, the Mongols would have beaten them, too.

Actually, while they may have had the largest continuous land-based empire, the Mongols lose out in terms of size of territory to the British.
Also, to imply that all that saved the Japanese from the Mongols was bad weather, is to focus only on the first Mongol-led invasion of Japan. The second attempt met prepared Japanese resistance, and not just a 'Divine Wind'.
The Mongols were not noted for their sea-borne prowess as a cursory glance at their battles would show you.

[siredgar]

Alright, Molly. Good points, but they still don't justify excluding the Mongols from consideration. Any civilization that takes over the largest contiguous land mass in history should be a contender, right?

[YefeiPi]

Most powerful civilization? Powerful as in what? Culture, Military, territory, science or overall? Since no specifics were given, then I assume you meant overall power.

I would undoubtedly choose China with no close competitor in mind, it's one of the oldest civilizations around and a consistent dominating power in the world not to mention being THE most powerful civ during many time periods in human history. Many other old civs flourished once or twice, then diminished or even completely wiped out. Many civs are very powerful but relatively new and yet to stand the test of time, e.g. United States. However, China stood the test of time and have flourished in all areas, culture, military, territory, science, etc. However, during the recent centuries, it began to become isolated and lost its world dominant presence. Also the history of China is hardly taught in the western history textbooks at all, so most westerners have severely limited knowledge of China and seeing the civ in its weakest time period, they naturally form prejudice. However, after government reforms and the country once again opened itself to the rest of the world, China is rapidly becoming a dominating power again.

[Jay Bee]

Originally posted by molly bloom
Actually, while they may have had the largest continuous land-based empire, the Mongols lose out in terms of size of territory to the British.

To the Spanish too. The Mongol has been the largest land-empire but the third in total size.

[jdd2007]

Actually, while they may have had the largest continuous land-based empire, the Mongols lose out in terms of size of territory to the British

true...

I don't think there's been any country in the world ever that was able to win 'easily' against any other country, even in their prime....

what? are you saying no single country, in history could of been able to beat another country easily? what about the third punic war, the nazi blitzkrieg of france and the gulf war?

these are examples of actual -wars- if you could call them that, but your point was that no country could theoretically beat another easily. you r saying it would be hard for the us to beat, say, singapore in a war, or for 18th century england to beat, say, easter island?

[justjake73]

Quote:

They went on to conquer the HUGE MASS of Russia and threatened to invade the rest of Europe. If they weren't so unorganized, they would have had it all.


They were VERY organized. What stopped them was that the Khan (Ogatai, I think) died, so they all had to return to Mongolia to choose a new Khan

[monkspider]

Come on guys, USA has been a significant power for maybe 100 years tops? Not bad, but not enough to be really in the field of contention...and I speak this as an American!

[red_ishmael]

Come ON!!
If we are talking the most powerfull Civilisation in the world i dont think anything can beat the Greeks, or more accuratly the Athenians thanks to both their literary merit and the work of Alexander the Great.
Their culture has pervaded every area of modern day life, from the supposedly mighty USA to the currently impoverished and bombed Afghanistan.
They created the greatest of intellectual civilisations of all time, and the closest that come to them is the chinese.
The major contendors the majority of you are arguing for fail for the following reasons
MONGULS: I was thinking of voting for them, however their culture was not incredibly lasting, and they created little real impact upon the culture of those they conquored (although that is debatable)
ROMANS: Their culture was that of the Greeks
USA: Sure its big, and maybe in about 3000 years or so if anyone still knows about it it might be worthy of being one of the greatest cultures ever. However its actual cultural engenuity is very questionable (and its democratic system is crap, come one two parties is not democracy thats only one better than Nazi Germany)
SO there is my rant...

[Wulfram]

Alexander wasn't greek, he was Macedonian and his empire didn't even last a decade. The Romans had a very different culture to the Greeks even though they learnt from them after conquering them.

[red_ishmael]

I realize that he wasnt Greek passe, however it was he who spread their culture more thouroughly than anyone else. And whether his empire lasted is not the point, the question is whos civilisation lasted, and look around you, everything is Greek based (well thats an exageration but you get the point) for example, where have i seen that style of column, that is so grandious on the white house, before??
The Romans culture was highly drawn from that of the Greeks. It stemed from a nearby Greek colony, way before Rome became even a blip on the world map.

[Sun Zi 36]

all i want to say is, how can people vote for USA? Firstly, it is doubtful that whether it is even a civilisation by itself (if u want to read the 9 page thread u r welcome) bcos its culture is VERY close to cultures in other Anglo-saxon nations. Secondly, when it is asking most powerful (watever that means) IN HISTORY, surely u have to look at the persistence of cultural impact which the USA only had been significant for the last 100 years at most. If the USA could be regarded as the most powerful just for that short period, i would regard the Mongols as even better than the USA.