Money Making Strategy

[regoarrarr]

So, I finally played a game that I didn't get my head handed to me. After several unsuccessful attempts at Regent, I moved down to Warlord and went with the Greeks. Early-game went well, and I was soon leading the tech race. Not by a whole lot, but I was usually the first one to get a tech. So I came up with this strategy. Don't know if it's been posted or not, and it seems pretty obvious but here goes:

Every time you get a new tech, hit F4 and go around the circle, trading it to every power. This does a couple of things:

1. Gets you insane amount of gold / turn. I could usually get world map, all the gold in their treasury, and 5-10 gp / turn from each power. The gold/turn lasts for 20 turns.

2. As a corollary to #1, this lets you set your science up to 100%, which lets you get the next advance faster than anyone else. I even managed to break the 4 turn / tech barrier and as my cities expand, I may even drop from 3 to 2.

3. Your treasury becomes enormous. I had anywhere from 3000-6000 gp in the treasury. This allows tons of rush-building of libraries, temples, universities which in turn produces more science and culture.

4. You completely hamstring the other countries' science research. Because I'm getting 10 gp a turn for each advance, in total I would be getting upwards fo 50 gp a turn from EACH power. Since they were giving me 50 gp a turn, that was 50 gp less that they could devote to science, which again just lets me keep ahead in the tech race.

5. Whenever you feel like not trading techs, you can. For instance, when I researched Sanitation, I decided not to trade that to anyone to give my cities the chance to build Hospitals and jump over 12 a couple of turns ahead of all of the other countries. And because of #4, they can't do anything about it.


I've been lucky in that nobody has wanted to go to war with me - all the countries are peaceful towards me at least so far.

Also, I haven't had any kind of a happiness problem. I've been building temples and other happiness improvements / wonders. Even in Democracy I have luxuries set at 0% and rare civil disorder, which I solve with entertainers.

Thoughts? Comments?

[Paradigm]

This is a very zen strategy; conquer your enemies by giving them tech, i like it

[eMarkM]

Good strategy when you're in a commanding tech lead. Less war because all the other civs love ya for trading tech. Though it will be more difficult at higher levels since you often lag behind in tech and don't have one that all the others don't already have.

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[regoarrarr]

Good point - I have yet to discover how it will work on higher levels. It does seem logical that you can use the strategy in reverse, get a tech from one of the tech leaders, and trade it to other have-nots for lotsa gold. Then, that will get you extra gold to increase research till you have a tech lead.

But like I said, I still have not tested it at higher levels - I'll be moving up once I finish this game.

[Rosacrux]

I've figured out the very same approach (with the very same civilization too - Greeks seem so good ) actually those two strategies combined. Using it in a game I play on Regent right now - tried to use it in another game at Monarch and failed blatantly (fell back in the science race from the very beginning...).

I guess it's a top-notch strategy for the three lower levels and I guess it shall be my favorite until I move up to Emperor-Deity.

I hasitate doing so right now because a)I haven't mastered the game mechanics yet, and b)Looks like Deity would work only with very specific approaches that take alot of the fun out of the game (if you are not a great lover of chess, that is . )

For the record, my settings: Huge World, Medium land mass, pangaia, roaming barbs, Regent, Greeks, 16 civs (in 13th century turns go like 3min. each - extremely annoying )

[BLackraven42]

Good Strategy, but I find money very usless now because you can no longer rush wonders or even spaceship parts. I prefer to turn science up to 100 on the firts turn of a game and then immedialy strt getting techs in about 15- 8 turns until i expand.

[Jack_www]

I have found that tech trading gets you large amounts of gold as well. In my current game I am playing on huge random map, 16 civs, level is regent. I am playing as the Americans (Expansionist, Industrous). I used scouts to find huts early to get a lot of techs this way, help alot in the tech race and tech trading. Right now I am in the middle of the Industrial age and thanks to tech trading I am making 1200 gold/turn. This has helped me alot!!!!

[DK36]

Nice strategy.. however, I prefer more to keep most techs to myself to have an advantage over the AI if I'll ever need it. But, this works really well with stuff like music theory, etc.. because the techs are absolutely useless after their respective wonders have been built, and yet the AI is still thirsty for 'em.

[Admiral PJ]

I'd suggest you remember to spend your money too, in civ i often just pile up my money like a mean old Tycoon, not spending it on the poor starving unculutured peasants, only rush buying barracks in my conquered cities.
Maybe i'll play as a good leader in civ3 for once.

[Master Marcus]

Yeah, can work on Regent. But on MONARCH + ???? Don't think so yet, the AI is always ahead of me in techs until the end of Middle Ages on Monarch level. Unless you play an Expansionist civ with abundant barbarians on huge maps, you just can't compete the AI on Monarch+ in the early game. Quite the contrary in fact if you play peacefully: you must upgrade more in your econ and less in science to keep a positive income. Must build roads more rapidly than Regent.

[DrSpike]

Rushing to monarchy has several benefits, including that you can trade it for loads of techs. In my second game (king level with babylonians) I got monarchy asap but was miles behind on tech. However, doing the rounds over the next few turns I got _all_ techs already discovered by anyone, a load of maps, and lots of cash. It would seem the AI (usually very mean on swaps) values monarchy a lot. Hard to say after 1 and a bit games, but perhaps this a way to stem the AI's tech lead at the start.

[Skanky Burns]

Getting a tech lead early in the game is almost impossible, with the notable exception of an expansionist civ popping huts.
Generally I dont do any research during the ancient period, instead trading for what i want from the other civs, as they research very fast, especially on the higher levels.
In the meantime, build up your science infrastructure, and your bank account.
Once the ancient period is over, then i start cranking up the science, and try for a tech lead here. Once you get a lead, the other civs will have a hard time beating it, as they will be funding your research via regoarrarr's method.

[regoarrarr]

Right - I definitely agree that this is a strategy for the mid to late game. Case in point, I was in the early game and quite behind in the tech race. I kept researching, while using trading and money to acquire some of the many techs I didn't have. But once, I was able to get one unique tech (i.e. one that nobody else had - I think it was Literature), I was able to trade that, after trading with everyone, for every tech I didn't have along with a bunch of gold, both lump and per turn. From then on I was in the lead and constantly increasing my lead due to this strat.

[Jason]

I have to beat my regent games before I switch to monarch, but I'm assuming that for the first little while you use the 32-turn method with the tax rate at 80-90 percent to get cash.

That being the case, can't you artificially grab a tech lead by buying a tech or two and selling them, and using that to get you into the tech groove? Assuming you have good contacts. Diplomatic meanness on the computers part on higher levels could negate this I suppose. I should get off of regent.

[Jer8m8]

to catch up on techs, just trade a useless city, then go conquer it back/take it over by culture

[fanatic civver]

I try to keep my best tech that noone else has until I can swap it with someone else. Once you've done the swap, do the circle as it is likely that the guy you just gave the tech to will do the circle himself if you dont, so you'll lose out

[jack_frost]

This is the only way I've been able to stay competitive in tech at emperor (about to space race on emp, then I'll try diety). Heres a couple more things I've noticed:

the higher the level the more lucrative your trades are (the AIs just have more to trade with).

The path I've had most success with is - buy techs till you hit your golden age (chivalry usually), then snag (atleast) 1 tech lead, and hold it using foreign money to support your 100% research.

If they catch up somehow, just trade away your lead. Better to siphon off their income then hold on to a 1 or two turn tech lead (it'll go away if you let them have an income).

There a bunch of interesting info about this in :
http://apolyton.net/forums/showthrea...threadid=33948

[Matthevv]

You don't need to have a tech lead, nor any cash to do this strategy. Set your science to 0% and your luxuries as low as possible, so that you have plenty of spare gold per turn. Then find a Civ that has a tech that nobody else has yet. Buy it for gold per turn (don't pay upfront). The most I have paid so far is 105, most have been are about 40-50. Then go round all the other Civs and sell the tech, getting back several times what you paid (as much as possible as a lump sum). Keep looking every turn for new techs to trade. This way you can keep up with everybody else in tech and also have pots of gold. An added bonus is that everybody is at the same level of tech across the world, so the Civs are fairly even, but you have heaps of gold, which you can use to: make new techs (that you don't trade until one other Civ gets them); buy alliances against any Civ that tries to make war against you (or you want to make war against); build cultural improvements so you can assimilate neighboring cities; and so on. In addition, as you are always trading with them, most Civs will have good relations with you.

[Auwi]

Wow! Thanks for the tips! I'm playing a Monarch game, and my civ was suffering from arrested development since I got stuck on a smallish island continent. But mid game I tried the tactic of trading a tiny island city for some techs, and then I traded round and round the diplomacy screen, and now I'm back on top of the tech tree with heaps of gold. Looks like I was first to get astronomy which should give me a head start populating the large area that no one has been able to explore yet.

[Redstar]

"to catch up on techs, just trade a useless city, then go conquer it back/take it over by culture
"

I thought this a quite interesting addition to civ3.
So just for fun i tried to trade my cities away.

Even offering over 1/2 my cities for free...no one would take them.
The advisor said they would be insulted by the deal. why??

Also why does the advisor tell you what will be acceptable in a trade deal? It makes it very easy to get the most out of a deal.

Is this condition true only for the lower difficulty settings?

[cassembler]

I'd imagine on higher difficulty levels, this strategy would work just fine if you preceeded it with a "severe beating with warriors" strategy... It's would give you that extra early one or two city conquest that helps for the tech race.

[jgflg]

Originally posted by cassembler
I'd imagine on higher difficulty levels, this strategy would work just fine if you preceeded it with a "severe beating with warriors" strategy... It's would give you that extra early one or two city conquest that helps for the tech race.

The strategy works great on Emperor. Especially later in the game when you make a ton of money off other civs just from one tech. It's the easiest way I know to win. I use it in combo with the "severe beating with warriors" strategy. The "severe beating with warriors" strategy is great for getting all the Ancient techs and catching you up to the start of the next age.

After that, the keys are being the first civ to buy/get an advancement from the discovering civ and not trading your world map at all except as part of a new tech deal. If you buy it first, you can turn around and sell it to the other civs which has the advantage of providing you with income while forcing other civs to adjust their science rate downward, slowing their own advancement. If you horde your maps then other civs will often accept it as payment for a tech in the early middle age which helps if you're in cash poor Despostism.

[Matthevv]

If you have the patience, you can probably sell all your techs off just *before* some other Civ develops them. If you do the rounds every turn and see what they all will offer for any techs that only you have, there is sometimes one that will offer 1 gold or something, when the others are all offering thousands. If their relations with you are good, and they have plenty of money, that probably means they have nearly developed the tech themselves. By selling the tech to the other Civs now, you will probably get a lot more for it that if you wait until this other Civ has it as well, and also avoid giving the tech away sooner than necessary.

[wrgj]

Want to beat deity? Keep on reading...!

The price of a tech for each AI player is determined by:
- how many players have it;
- how much they've already researched;
- their attitude towards you;
- the stategic value of the tech to them.

For example, each turn you wait before trading means that the AI gives you less, because they are closer to getting it anyway. However, you might find that the richest people might be religious, and won't gives you more than 100-200 gold for a tech you can get 700 off the Romans - but then they offer you heaps for Theology, for example.

One strategy for making money is to get the Great Library. It is better, economically, than most of the commercial wonder in the early game. I'm playing on deity, so it's hard to research early tech. The best strategy is to put science at zero and trade. By getting the Great Library, you get the techs for free, and then can get about 2000 g.p. per tech in trading.

Note that whever you trade a tech, it's value for everyone else decreases. I believe that its value decreases by 1 point (which is multiplied by 40 to get 40g.p. in deity, but is less for lower levels) when you trade it. However, if someone wants it (because they need cathedrals, e.g.) and they were willing to pay a premium on it, then theirs will go down more if you trade it to someone else. On average, the best way to trade is to trade it to the highest bidder first - except if they are offering all their money. Maybe they would give you more, but have no money, so you can offer it to them next turn for the same price.


Early game
=========
This stragey IS important for the early game. Whether or not you use it affects things greatly. Here are some issues:

- If you do it, it speeds up the overall tech rate, as you often sell it to people for cheaper prices than they would have been offered otherwise. Hence, the opposition get infrastructure in earlier, which makes beating them harder.

- You get money in despotism when you can't use it to rush build. However, you get to republic quicker (don't bother with monarchy unless you're a war mongerer) and then you can rush build all that infrastructure that you've been dreaming of for the last 3000 years.
eff
- The more you trade, the more people like you. You'll see attitudes changing pretty quickly. Those who are culturally similar (eg European, ancient, Asian) get to polite quickly, and will be offering Rights of Passage in a blink. Also, those that want to go to war with you, will refrain for a little longer.
HOWEVER, BEWARE! If you're being paid 100gp per turn, there is more incentive to go to war, and stop paying!

- If you like war, it outdates your military faster.

**********************
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NEW STRATEGY
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COMMERCIAL PERFECTIONIST

If you like to play the perfectionist role (i.e. not win by rushing your opponents and staying at war for 6000 years) and you'd prefer to be wealthy, to be able to afford all of those cultural buildings, be THE NEGOTIATOR.

You become the negotiator when you trade your world map for the first time. You'll want to hold onto it for as long as possible, so that you can settle all your region, before the neighbours sneak in and settle in the holes you intended filling in later.

Once you decide to trade you never stop.

First, trade your map for the AI world map and communications with one other AI player. You then go round in a circle through all you opponents like this, so you have a completely up to date map, and communications with everyone. You then trade world maps with every player, every turn (which is quite quick once you've done it a few times!) You do not change the gold they offer you for the world may, just make sure they give you theirs as well. Sometimes they won't offer it to you because they value it as worthless to you, but get it anyway (you'll get the same amount of gold.) This means that everyone starts loving you, because you're the source of all their info., and when technology comes along, buy it off them, and sell it immediately to everyone else. All this gets you a huge profit, about 1000gp for early techs, growing later of course, and up to an extra 100gp per turn (for 16 players) from the map.
If you have to pay for the map (usually, they just offer you a few gold) then you end up with an even bigger profit from everyone else.

IMPORTANT BIT:
If people want to go to war with you, and you are weaker than them, they always ask for a tribute before going to war. If you traded with them the previous turn, they never seem to declare war! One factor in this, is if you've just given them your world map, and all the techs, then they have nothing to ask for. They just say when trading "Let's trade to improve relations... or else!" or something. So instead of going to war, they give you all their gold! Very effective, especially on deity, when the AI bonus is hard to beat when playing the pacifist.

[wrgj]

Addendum to the negotiator ....

Pretty quickly most of the AI civs are giving you all their money, and cannot afford to buy the techs off you. Also, some techs are very strategic, and are worth heaps, so the AI will not trade it between themselves, and you can put off trading it for a long time. This can be very useful, e.g. get a head start on a wonder.

[zanthus]

Another way to make a ton of money off a friend is to throw a spare luxury into the deal. For example instead of just asking for 15 gold/turn for a tech, throw in a luxury and ask 20-25 (or more) gold/turn. This way the AI won't cancel the deal after 20 turns. They continue paying the high price even after the 20 turns are up (unlike asking for gold/turn for just a tech). I was able to rip off the French so much using this tactic one game. The people at Firaxis got at least one civ right on.....

Deciously yours, zanthus
Ha! Ha! Ha!

[Skeletal Dragon]

Isn't this similar to the vassal strategy? (Or have I misnamed it?) Y'know... the strategy where you trade all your tech to the other players for all their GPT every 20 turns? I tried this today, and its very effective... you can easily get 200+ GPT and still go up to the 4 turn science cap. Impressive!

[zanthus]

Originally posted by Skeletal Dragon
Isn't this similar to the vassal strategy? (Or have I misnamed it?) Y'know... the strategy where you trade all your tech to the other players for all their GPT every 20 turns? I tried this today, and its very effective... you can easily get 200+ GPT and still go up to the 4 turn science cap. Impressive!

I don't think the strat you referenced has an official name, but yours is a good one. Yes, it is similar, except here the payments go on indefinately, instead of just 20 turns. That way you can just about permanantly disable their gold and science production off of one tech trade. It will help cement your tech lead even further than the vassal strat would.

[zorbop]

Originally posted by regoarrarr

I've been lucky in that nobody has wanted to go to war with me - all the countries are peaceful towards me at least so far.

Thoughts? Comments?

i find other civs declare war on me most of the time because they owe me tribute but can't pay it, then war is auto.

another money making strategy is to trade x money per turn for all there money, in a lump sum, and maby a territory map. then declare war so the 20 turn deal is canclled. it not only gets you money, but ruins there economy so it's harder for them to put up a fight.
after you win, you send all the extra workers to your cap city so you can trade them, for money. i can usually get about 50 gold for each worker.

[The Hun]

If you don't trade your techs, the AI will. The AIs will pool their techs and advance quicker than you due to combined effort (unless you are using another strategy effectively such as military conquest or culture bomb).

As an example, I was the last to contact the isolated Chinese (one turn late). When I did, his treasury was empty and he had all the techs that everyone on my continent had. After the next few turns, Russia had a large army on my border and was ahead in the tech lead

-Craig