FAQ: STATUS And AVAILIABILITY Of The FORUMS

[MarkG]

We'd like to give some answers on what has been happening the last days on the forums.

<U>1) Why did we have problems?</U>
Problems were created from the increased traffic due to the release of Civ3. From an average of 200 we went to 600

<U>2) Couldnt you be prepared for the oncoming traffic?</U>
We could not calculate neither the amount of traffic that we would get or the ability of the server to to handle. We could not also evaluate which functions of the forums were caused more server load at these levels of traffic

<U>3) What have you been doing to keep the forums up?</U>
First of all we have been monitoring the load on the server as much as possible(we do have to sleep and do some real life stuff every now and then) and try different approaches at reducing server load. Some of the measures were disabling important(or not so important) parts of the forums, such as the OT, search and avatars as well as disabling guest view to the civ3 forums. During the recent downtime we were able to make some alteration ot our code as well. We have also moved some 200k posts from the Civ3-General and the OT to archives

<U>4) Why did the downtime last so long?</u>
Initially because the sql server went on strike and demanded the presense of a Gamestats technician before restarting
<font size=1>(disclaimer: the previous phrase may include a joke. please remove any children from the computer. always read the label)</font>
We also decided to make some tests and some alterations to the code which took some time and when you add some real life elements like markg's real job and dan's very real university work load....

<U>5) What have you done to increase the capacity of the server</u>
First of all, this isnt a matter of capacity on the current machine, but of better use of it. While in contact with Jelsoft, the creators of vBulletin(the forum script that we use) we have been told that with over 700 users we are more or less reaching the limits of their system. Even so, with all the measures we have taken, last night(for MarkG, evening for Apolyton time) we were able to have 600-650 users, keep a good(=low) server load and open again the OT

<U>6) What's missing from the forums right now?</u>
The following are disabled, we will make efforts to bring them back according to our server load and the current traffic:
- Avatars
- Display of full list of currently online users
- Display of birthdays on first page

<U>7) When are these features coming back? Will the OT be closed again?</u>
All we can say is that we will act according to the situation that we are in. For example, we have enabled searches again but we might take it off later. We are also looking at the issue of avatars: we might be able to bring regular avatars back but not show custom ones, since they seem to be the trouble in this part. In the end, we believe that being able to post in a forum visited by thousands of civers per day and hundreds of them are connected at the same time with you is better than having a nice image next to your post(and wait for half an hour for someone to respond to you ) For the currently online users we have brought back the total numbers but not the full list(you can still check if your buddies are online from the control panel). As for the birthdays bit it's probably a small thing but we're keeping it off for now. You can still see everyone's birthdays on the calendar


We would like to thank you for your patience and apologise for the inconvenience. Someone has described this as growing pains and that is exactly what it is. We hope that we'll be good enough so that the current traffic is not a temporary situation but a permanent one. Cause the more we are, the better Civ will be!


edit: currently online numbers on main forum page enabled

[TCO]

Mark, I think you could grow this thing to over a thousand on-line users if you made the effort to push growth and were ready to handle it. Realsitically, the snafus of the last week have limited Poly growth. (Whatever we're at, we could have been more.) I think it would be a uesful exercise for you and Dan and the GS boys to sit down and calculate the financials (costs and revenues) for doubling the site size and then think about how you would go about doing it. (Technical and marketing steps.)

[La Fayette]

Originally posted by MarkG
Cause the more we are, the better Civ will be!

This is exactly my opinion, Mark.
I hate it when I read that 'the server is too busy...', but I love the idea that this means in fact that civ3 is probably a great game and Apolyton is certainly a great site.
Thank you for your efforts (... and wise decisions such as avatars, birthdays, ...and even OT).
I have been posting OT on the strategy forum so many times that I feel perfectly entitled to tell you this

[d_dudy]

Originally posted by GP
Mark, I think you could grow this thing to over a thousand on-line users if you made the effort to push growth and were ready to handle it. Realsitically, the snafus of the last week have limited Poly growth. (Whatever we're at, we could have been more.) I think it would be a uesful exercise for you and Dan and the GS boys to sit down and calculate the financials (costs and revenues) for doubling the site size and then think about how you would go about doing it. (Technical and marketing steps.)

maybe he likes the site the way it is?

[TCO]

"Cause the more we are, the better Civ will be."

[Solly]

It seems to have done the trick!

[Zer0_T0lerance]

Originally posted by MarkG
Someone has described this as growing pains and that is exactly what it is.

Heh heh! And that was me, wasn't it?

[DanQ]

<I>I think it would be a uesful exercise for you and Dan and the GS boys to sit down and calculate the financials (costs and revenues) for doubling the site size and then think about how you would go about doing it. (Technical and marketing steps.)</I>

Unfortunately, financial times are tight -- just look on the Internet for various reports about UGO's cutbacks, for example, and even articles on the entire fallout of online advertising and how the situation it created is still prevalent today.

Finally, as Markos already said in his message, it's not the capacity of the current machine that is in question but rather how to make better use of it. This is a trial and error exercise and we have learned a fair bit just in the past week. There is more to be done and with GS Tech. we are plugging away at it as much as possible.

----------------
Dan; Apolyton CS

[TCO]

Dan,

when I say useful exercise, I mean that you may learn some good things even if you don't decide to double the site. It would be good for y'all to do this in an organized manner. Actually crunch some numbers and think through options by putting them on paper/white board. Who knows you might surprise yourself with what you work out.

I worry about the GS business if it's not capable of expansion. Most business are more effecient as they grow larger. (One tech can watch 2 machines, you can get better ad deals, etc. etc.)

I realize that GS may be wary of investment. But if it's impossible to pay for servers based on web useage than that doesn't say good things about the future of hosting arrangements of ANY kind.

I applaud the efforts to get the most out of the current equipment.

[Scouse Gits]

Today (Saturday), is the best it's been all week.
Monday - Friday the worst times were from 17.00hrs - Midnight GMT. I now try to visit during "off peak" periods.

--------------------------

SG(2)

[OneFootInTheGrave]

I am interested in 700 user v-bulletin limit?

Why is that is there a limit in the script??? Whay would someone want to put the limit in software if hardware can handle it?


What about your old forum script how many simultaneus users could that handle theoretically? even though we did not surpass 200 users at a time than

[MarkG]

Originally posted by OneFootInTheGrave
I am interested in 700 user v-bulletin limit?

Why is that is there a limit in the script??? Whay would someone want to put the limit in software if hardware can handle it?

it's not any kind of internal limit. it's a limit mainly on what mysql(the database server) can do

What about your old forum script how many simultaneus users could that handle theoretically? even though we did not surpass 200 users at a time than

ubb would definately not be able to handle our traffic. we could even have problems at 300 users, let alone 700....

[TCO]

Mark, what else is out there? What else is available?

[MarkG]

For the currently online users we are looking at bring back the total numbers but not the full list

this is now done


btw, a response to Asher from another thread
By "making better use of the resources" he means disabling some features so it'll run faster.
yes, we think that be able to server more visitors is better than showing to less people how many they are

[MarkG]

Originally posted by GP
Mark, what else is out there? What else is available?

you mean in terms of forum software? there is nothing better than vbulletin at this price

[TCO]

Markos are there any technical solutions (software) to put 1000+ users on the forums? (i.e. if money were not an issue)

[TCO]

Originally posted by MarkG
you mean in terms of forum software? there is nothing better than vbulletin at this price

Of course, but what's the next step up?

[Gramphos]

Can I find the archived posts somewhere? Or are they out of the picture at the movement?

[MarkG]

Originally posted by GP
Markos are there any technical solutions (software) to put 1000+ users on the forums? (i.e. if money were not an issue)

yes, we would hire someone to make vbulletin support postgres or even better(since money would not be an issue) oracle

[aeturneus]

from what has been done on the [H]ard|OCP vbulletin forums, which handle around 800 users during peak hours and have over 30,000 registered users, I would suggest a few things:

1. Disable e-mail notification of replies
2. Daily archive obsolete posts
3. Limit the number of smilies to 5-6
4. Make the PM boxes smaller, if necessary disable pm's ocasionally in times of high load.
5. Take the forum offline for about an hour every day and clean it up...

Hardocp has a paid technician to do this for them every day, so I don't know how possible this is for apoly... only thing I know is, Hardocp has handled fast growth and maintained quality and speed.

[MarkG]

Originally posted by Gramphos
Can I find the archived posts somewhere? Or are they out of the picture at the movement?

for now they are not accessible from anywhere



aeturneus, a link?

[Gramphos]

Originally posted by MarkG
for now they are not accessible from anywhere

Do you plan to make then assessable later (along with the old archive?)

And in that case: Are you going to make it fixed HTML, not generated with fixed colors and posts/page to avoid DB-use?

[aeturneus]

www.hardforums.com

[TCO]

Originally posted by MarkG
yes, we would hire someone to make vbulletin support postgres or even better(since money would not be an issue) oracle

I mean the "next step", Markos

"vbulletin support postgres" is cheaper than oracle? How much does each cost and how many users do they support.

Are there any 1000+ forums? And how do they operate?

[Ramo]

How much of a performance increase does the server get from disabling the "ratings?"

[MarkG]

Originally posted by Ramo
How much of a performance increase does the server get from disabling the "ratings?"

you mean thread ratings? we havent disabled them

[Robert Plomp]

or even better(since money would not be an issue) oracle

Or....... even better: Lotus Domino !

[Gramphos]

Have you archived more posts today?

IIRC there were 30000 posts in the Civ3-general yesterday, but now it only is 23000 posts.

[Cube]

I mostly agree with atearneus.

<B>1. Disable e-mail notification of replies</B>

This would work, I personaly don't like them, and I'm sure most people don't like them either. I turn them off anyway

2. Daily archive obsolete posts

I don't know about daily, it seems like to much sometimes I don't come here for two days

3. Limit the number of smilies to 5-6

I don't think so, I use more than five smilies sometimes

I really don't like it when you close OT since it's the only forum I go to , now that I've stopped playing computer games. So please try to keep OT open.

[DarkCloud]

Oh well at least the forums are working now That is good