MP... What if Brian had not left?

Earthling7 · November 10, 2001, 06:52

I read this in an interview on Gamespot. It's Brian Reynolds talking about multiplayer in SMAC. Interesting stuff really, given the talk on this forum.

Quote:
Adding multiplayer was definitely very important to me personally, ever since being told (in a previous life) that multiplayer wasn't a very good idea, interferes with our marketing plans , and please stop working on it, over halfway through the implementation. Incidentally, I hear the same company, now under new and infinitely better management, is now scrambling frantically to correct the mistake and "beat me to market" with a multiplayer version of said game. I wish them luck, because it's not easy![

Now, I am more a single player myself, but I wonder how his departure from Firaxis has affected Civ3.

TLG · November 10, 2001, 07:32

who needs a Civ 3 multiplayer when the single game is broken ?

I am still looking for help for the Fixareus project. If you want to help, go there :

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthrea...threadid=33104

I you want to rant keep posting

Earthling7 · November 10, 2001, 07:36

First, this is not ranting

and it's not about MP. The fact seems to be that Civ3 was shipped unfinished. I am convinced that Brian leaving Firaxis has a lot to do with that. They had to replace a key person. If Civ3 is like previous games (Civ2 & SMAC), he was the Head Designer.

I'm just wondering how Civ3 would be different.

Earthling7 · November 10, 2001, 08:05

Another interview, this one after he left Firaxis.

Quote:
The big money resource-wise usually goes into art and multimedia, so those have been the areas where trade-offs have had to be made; there were a whole series of cut scenes I would have liked to include in Alpha Centauri (the so-called "interludes"), but the resources just weren't there.

I wonder if no Wonder Movies is all Dino's fault. Did they spend too much on Dinos?

SITS · November 10, 2001, 08:19

Quote:

Originally posted by TLG
who needs a Civ 3 multiplayer when the single game is broken ?

I you want to rant keep posting

Actually that is a good reason to have MP. There are still some bugs in SMAC but people that play against each other agree not to exploit them. I think the present Civ 3would have been playable with MP.

TLG · November 10, 2001, 09:54

Quote:

Originally posted by SITS
There are still some bugs in SMAC but people that play against each other agree not to exploit them

"Let's play fair : do not overtake my cities guarded with 4 riflemen with your army of warriors"

Sounds fun but it happend to me yesterday when I lost a city guarded with 4 riflemen (3 veterans, 1 elite each) against 12 Egyptian chariots (2/1/2)

There was a 50% bonus when fighting outdated units in Civ2. Why did Firaxis forget it in Civ3 ?

Firaxis

Infogrammes

Brian Reynolds

jackshot · November 10, 2001, 11:23

Quote:

Originally posted by TLG Firaxis

Infogrammes

Brian Reynolds

All I know of why Reynolds left Firaxis is the same as what everyone else has read.

But it does cross my mind that maybe Reynolds doesn't deserve that thumbs up quite so readily. Rumor was that he took or disabled much of the SMAC code and did a lot of other snitty things when he and the others left. Since a final patch for SMAC never materialised perhaps there is something to this, I don't know.

Now people have suggested with good reason that part of the reason Civ3 is obviously unfinished is because of Reynolds' leaving. With the future of big budget TBS games are very dependent on the sales of Civ3 and the upcoming MOO3, and Reynold's professed desire to make only RTS at BigHuge Games - do you see where I'm heading with this?

The people who left Firaxis left it in the lurch. Whether they left because of expanding hat sizes (as I suspect) or to justly escape the evil Sid (probably at least partially true) we will never know for sure. Since what is on our computers has been compromised because of it (even if you like this game, it's scope has been compromised you have to admit), I see no reason for any thumbs being raised.

Besides, what has BigHuge done for you lately?

Yoleus · November 10, 2001, 11:46

Earthling7 · November 10, 2001, 11:57

Quote:

Originally posted by jackshot
Since what is on our computers has been compromised because of it (even if you like this game, it's scope has been compromised you have to admit),

That was actually my point. To what extent has Civ3 been compromised?

TLG · November 10, 2001, 12:02

Quote:

Originally posted by jackshot

I see no reason for any thumbs being raised.

Well, I do. Civilization is the most succeeding strategy franchise in the history of video games. And when Brian Reynolds says :

Quote:

The big money resource-wise usually goes into art and multimedia, so those have been the areas where trade-offs have had to be made; there were a whole series of cut scenes I would have liked to include in Alpha Centauri (the so-called "interludes"), but the resources just weren't there.

, he is obviously talking about Firaxis. And he is right, you can not work properly if not enough resources are allocated to the development of such a game.

The Civilization franchise deserves a better treatment. To sum up : Brian Reynolds is perfectionist, Firaxis is commercial and Infogrames is industrious ]

Quote:

Besides, what has BigHuge done for you lately?

Still nothing but at least they have not soiled Civilization's reputation.

TLG
Fixareus promotion tour 2001
http://apolyton.net/forums/showthrea...threadid=33104

jackshot · November 10, 2001, 13:08

Quote:

Originally posted by Earthling7

That was actually my point. To what extent has Civ3 been compromised?

To name just two, lack of multiplayer and a weak editor, both of which Firaxis admitted were left out due to time contraints. The game was rushed, everyone knows that, and I would call these compromises. You can blame Infogames and probably rightly so, but Firaxis also contracted to be finished by that date and "missed" it.

I think Firaxis obviously worked very hard to make it, but the split was too much to overcome. And I think it's silly to say the split was ALL Sid's fault because things don't usually go like that in the real world and it's not how Mr. Reynolds tells the story anyway. I have nothing against Reynolds either, he is certainly free to pursue his dreams, but I'll feel better about his actions when BigHuge puts something nice on my computer.

So far, his leaving has just been a negative. As I've said before, Civ3 is about 85% of a very, very great game which Firaxis deserves a lot of credit for. But the remaining 15% is compromise.

Imran Siddiqui · November 10, 2001, 16:36

Quote:

Still nothing but at least they have not soiled Civilization's reputation.

Neither has Firaxis.

Steve Clark · November 10, 2001, 16:48

Yeah sure, the integrity of the obnoxious Brian Reynolds in selling his soul to Microsoft. It is all about RTS vs TBS. (note to self: keeping reminding yourself why you will never buy a BHG game.)

DinoDoc · November 10, 2001, 16:50

Quote:

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
Neither has Firaxis.

You don't think kicking a high profile game out the door before it is finished is a bad thing?

Elowan · November 10, 2001, 17:10

Quote:

Originally posted by DinoDoc

You don't think kicking a high profile game out the door before it is finished is a bad thing?

Microsoft doesn't think so - take a look at their apps.

Earthling7 · November 11, 2001, 04:40

I was reading an article on Gamespy written by Brian. He is all enthusiastic about Age of Kings and Starcraft. I think he just got sick of TBS. Artistical differences, I suppose.

Guess his next game will be Age of Presidents or something...

Yoleus · November 11, 2001, 05:31

Oh Brian, why are thou, Brian?

(wanted to sound like Juliet in Shakespeare, but failed miserably)

Skanky Burns · November 11, 2001, 06:15

Quote:

Originally posted by DinoDoc
You don't think kicking a high profile game out the door before it is finished is a bad thing?

Take a look at why the game was kicked out the door before it was finished.
Heres a hint: It has to do with a certain developing team leaving after 7 months, forcing Firaxis to start again basically from scratch...

David Murray · November 11, 2001, 09:09

Maybe us Europeans are getting a version with multiplayer--thus the late release date--look here:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/...382355-3708617

It says:

"Features
More fun and interesting decision making
New paths to victory
New interface and reporting screens
More powerful and intuitive customization tools
Full set of integrated, multiplayer options"

Well, I can but hope.

squid · November 11, 2001, 10:14

.

DinoDoc · November 11, 2001, 10:21

Quote:

Originally posted by Skanky Burns
Heres a hint: It has to do with a certain developing team leaving after 7 months, forcing Firaxis to start again basically from scratch...

This excuses Firaxis in what way? Don't tell me they couldn't have found the 9^10 gold bug, the corruption bug, and the bomber bug if they had done any sort of QA. Even if that had been too much effort, the very least they could have done would have been to have include MP as they were planning on doing and not drop it at the last second to shove it out of the door.

TCO · November 11, 2001, 13:46

Quote:

Originally posted by TLG

"Let's play fair : do not overtake my cities guarded with 4 riflemen with your army of warriors"

Sounds fun but it happend to me yesterday when I lost a city guarded with 4 riflemen (3 veterans, 1 elite each) against 12 Egyptian chariots (2/1/2)

There was a 50% bonus when fighting outdated units in Civ2. Why did Firaxis forget it in Civ3 ?

Firaxis

Infogrammes

Brian Reynolds

Don't be such a wimp. In civ2 it was too easy for the human to beat up on the AI because of the huge advantaage modern units had. If you were not such a wimp at combat, you'd be happy for stronger competition.

TCO · November 11, 2001, 13:48

Firaxis said they would be able to get their projects done when Brain left. It's a little late to be looking ofr excuses now. Besides, so what if Brian left? Bottom line is same in terms of performance wether the reason is Brian leaving or the dog eating the homework.