isn´t there any way to handle this ****ing corruption?

[oedo]

courthouses are a joke. I have a city about 25 squares away from my capital (huge map), that struggles 100% corruption. the courthouse doesn´t change anything on it!

so I´m trying democracy, the goverment with the minimal corruption. I take a look into my corrupted city: no effect.

there´s a chance to build the Forbidden Palace. problem is, this city will need 300(!) turns to comple it. this doesn´t seem to be a reasonable option.

but wait! I have workers! I can move an army of workers to my city, planting forests in order to clear the forests right after that. this should give my city 10 shields each second turn.
but alas, this is also no way. shields are not added to cities that are building wonders (both, small ones and great ones).

my final try was using luberjacks on the normal palace. useless to say this also didn´t work. after all I didn´t expect anything else anymore.

I can see only one way to handle corruption. when I´m building units or improvements I can lumberjack the squares next to my city squares in order to get a few shields and speed up the production a little. how pointless! this is nothing but a wate of time and I need hundreds of workers to get a slight effect.

great job, fireaxis! civ3 is no game for oedo.

[HunterAssasin]

I've had the same problem Forbiden Palace is supposed to help with it but where you need it, it takes forever to build.

The best I got was switching to Communism and even then it takes like 30-40 turns

[jones]

A big empire is not needed to win. Now I can't comment as to whether it's as much fun or not ...

[HunterAssasin]

Yeah my empire was pretty big, I controled my very own continent far away from anyone else whitch I conquered about half of it from the English, French, and Germany. I also controlled the small portion of the continent nearest of the east side whitch I took from the Aztecs, but still corruption shouldn't be so crippling that you can barely build the forbiden palace.

[Grandpa Troll]

Originally posted by oedo
courthouses are a joke. I have a city about 25 squares away from my capital (huge map), that struggles 100% corruption. the courthouse doesn´t change anything on it!

so I´m trying democracy, the goverment with the minimal corruption. I take a look into my corrupted city: no effect.

there´s a chance to build the Forbidden Palace. problem is, this city will need 300(!) turns to comple it. this doesn´t seem to be a reasonable option.

but wait! I have workers! I can move an army of workers to my city, planting forests in order to clear the forests right after that. this should give my city 10 shields each second turn.
but alas, this is also no way. shields are not added to cities that are building wonders (both, small ones and great ones).

my final try was using luberjacks on the normal palace. useless to say this also didn´t work. after all I didn´t expect anything else anymore.

I can see only one way to handle corruption. when I´m building units or improvements I can lumberjack the squares next to my city squares in order to get a few shields and speed up the production a little. how pointless! this is nothing but a wate of time and I need hundreds of workers to get a slight effect.

great job, fireaxis! civ3 is no game for oedo.

Sorry you had problems my friend..


I just finished a game with Greeks, Biggest Map, 5 civs in addition to mine, very minimal problems wih corruption... I had 5 units in each city for a garisioned deterent to uprisings , but it is better than having riots and mob outbreaks!

Yours in Civin

Troll

[annoyed]

some sort of small wonder colonizing feature should be added to facilitate the governing of far flung empires. nothing is more worthless than finding a hut with a settler 50 moves away from your empire and nowing it is useless to build in the spot you found it because you will sooner or later be absorbed in another empire or conquered.

[DK36]

Hey, you thought a huge empire would be easy to keep without corruption? Here's a hint: Roman empire..

One benefit is to be a commercial civ. However, many people don't like to be limitted and I can perfectly understand that. I'm just listing what you can do to help.

What you should do, however, is since you have wanted to be a little belligerent pooper, you take your great leader and use him to super build the Forbidden Palace. And voila, problem solved.

Oh, and just because your strategy is ineffective, and you can't come up with your own way of dealing with it, don't blame firaxis for making a spectacular game that is actually realistic in most of its senses, of which one major point in history is: big empires tend to fall.

Now if only they tweak diplomacy a little, but that's a whole other post......

[morb]

Originally posted by DK36
Hey, you thought a huge empire would be easy to keep without corruption? Here's a hint: Roman empire..

One benefit is to be a commercial civ. However, many people don't like to be limitted and I can perfectly understand that. I'm just listing what you can do to help.

What you should do, however, is since you have wanted to be a little belligerent pooper, you take your great leader and use him to super build the Forbidden Palace. And voila, problem solved.

Oh, and just because your strategy is ineffective, and you can't come up with your own way of dealing with it, don't blame firaxis for making a spectacular game that is actually realistic in most of its senses, of which one major point in history is: big empires tend to fall.

Now if only they tweak diplomacy a little, but that's a whole other post......

The romans never had fax machines or telephones or the internet. It seems that with modern advances and a democratic gov't (which perhaps should be offered a bit later in the game) corruption should be less crippling. In 'the real world' corruption comes from unaccountability. This is fine in ancient times when it took many months to send/receive communiques, but as communication becomes more instantious, corruption should also be eliviated. That's if you want to go with the 'realistic' theaory. Anyway you look at it, there should be more potent methods of dealing with corruption even in far flung outposts than are currently available in the game. Even making courthouses more potant alone would go a long way.

[Che Palle]

I wish there was an option to save a message and reprint it automatically... but here goes:

Che Palle's official strategy guide for *dealing* with corruption (by corruption, here we mean both corruption and waste) :-)

Stay in Despotism. DO NOT move up to Monarchy just 'cause you've discovered it.

Why?

Because you can rush-build things (not wonders) by sacrificing population.

Keep in mind that corruption in your far-away cities affects both shields and gold, but NOT food... so if you built those cities in reasonable locations you should have a healthy supply of citizens you can force-labor into rushing stuff.

What do you rush?

Temples!
Cathedrals!
Colosseums!
Courthouses!

Don't IRRIGATE grassland. There's no food benefit to irrigated grassland under despotism.

MINE GRASSLAND, PLAINS, DESERT. Every square around your city should be mined. Do not even stop to worry about the fact that you're mining but not really adding production due to corruption. Work on creating the potential for production.

BUILD ROADS on every square that's being worked. Not on every square around the city, unless you have tons of workers... you're trying to maximize the NOW gold productivity of your workers. Once every worked square is roaded and mined, start roading and mining the next best candidates in every city.

Don't rush-build the courthouses before the Temples. Do rushbuild them before Colosseums and Cathedrals if THOSE improvements aren't available yet.

Build the Oracle or the Hanging gardens wherever you can build it fastest (typically your capital or another well established city).

Where am I going with this?...

WE LOVE THE KING CELEBRATIONS!

In my experience with at least 20 games so far at Chieftain, Warlord and Regent level, the single most effective way to take a bite out of corruption *IS* having as many cities as possible celebrating We love the King.

While in despotism keep rushing the heck out of everything. Remember that if your city doesn't have a temple and/or other improvements, you will be forced to up luxuries or face unhappy citizens... it seems mean to do this but it's historically accurate. Citizens in colonies in South America didn't live the plush life of those in Madrid while the colonies were establishing themselves.

Do the above and I can assure you that at least ONE city that is polar to your capital will suddenly burst into We Love the King celebrations and it's waste will go down. WAY DOWN!

At this point you'll want to mine EVERY SQUARE around that city, and road it, build a courthouse (if you don't have one there already) and build that Forbidden Palace.

Last night I specifically followed this strategy and by the time my courthouse was built in the far from home good production WLTK city, it was able to complete the forbidden palace in 24 turns. Not too shabby... and I made the mistake of not sending ALL my workers to it as soon as it started WLTK celebrations!

As far as using the Leader... I wouldn't reccomend this. Not for the Forbidden palace, given that this strategy will work every time (note that it's not an exploit or some stupid thing like that... it makes good sense... basically you're telling your far away cities that you *care* about them enough to build serious infrastructure, instead of just using them as military outposts). Once the citizens are happy they'll be more willing to contribute to your empire.

Incidentally...

if you know what's good for you, you WILL NOT build any military units in those cities. Not a one (exception being when someone attacks you, and you didn't plan for it and you HAVE to protect your butt). As a matter of fact, if you know what's good for you, you will NOT build any military units in cities that don't have barracks. Given the new *deproved* combat (which is more fun in it's unpredictability imho though at times frustrating) a veteran unit is significantly better than a regular one (if for no other reason than it's more likely to become ELITE in combat and possibly spawn a great leader).

Back to that Leader. I could be wrong, but so far I've found 2 very useful uses for one:

1. To rush Leonardo's workshop. This may not be important at Chieftain if you have a lot of money. But upgrades at 50% means you can upgrade 2x the units through history (Spearman rules! Upgrades to Pikeman, then Mustketman then Rifleman then Infantry then Mechanized infantry.. repeat after me "WE LOVE THE SPEARMAN!").

2. TO build an army. Many players I've talked about this with argue that this is a *waste* of a Leader which could be used for Wonder Rushing. I disagree. While you certainly may NOT *NEED* an army NOW... you might later. And if you build one now and use it in a GUARANTEED WIN situation you will satisfy the condition for later building the "Military Academy" small wonder which allows you to produce Armies without using a leader. Do not underestimate the Army.

Sorry for the length of this and I hope you found it useful.


Alessandro

P.S. If your new city is on a different continent you need to rush-build a HARBOR before anything else. Don't even think about building a city on a different continent without access to the sea. You can do that later, but you absolutely want to have one or two (or more) of your far away cities on the water. You need to improve this new continent as well as you did the mainland, and assuming at this point you're in democracy, you'll have to plan to spend money to do rush build everything. This, of course does mean that you'll need to both be rich, and probably decrease your science expenses to create more wealth. This is a realistic approach as it's not far-fetched that while focusing on expanding your empire you don't have the same emphasis placed on science.

[Sava]

I've discovered a way to defeat the system in terms of production lost to corruption. Check out my thread on IFE. It gives corrupt cities tons of production if done right. And its not a cheat.

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthrea...threadid=33292

[Sava]

Also, if you really hate corruption, be a Commercial Civ. They get less corruption. And it is enough of a bonus to be helpful. France, in my opinion, is the best Civ. Industrious gives a production bonus and allows workers to work faster (check out my thread on IFE).

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthrea...threadid=33292

The Commercial aspect gives them less corruption than other Civs. Plus, I think that the Joan d'Arc chick is hot!

[oedo]

IFE is a good way to speed up production in your cities. the problem is, those things my empire needs to build aren´t supported by lumberjacking workers. waiting several 100 turns for the second palace is no matter of patience. it´s simply pathetic.
WLTL doesn´t work at all, almost all of my cities are celebrating for centuries, but there is no significant effect on corruption.
I didn´t play a commercial civ yet, but from what I´ve read here this also wouldn´t help.
keeping my empire small is no acceptable option for me. following the editor, the optimal number of cities is 8! this must be a joke. see how many cities the AI is spitting out. with 8 cities I wouldn´t even have a chance on chieftain. I´m playing on monarch now and my second game -if I ever will play it- will definetly be on deity. I see no problems in winning the game (on any level). it´s just I can´t enjoy it at all.
I wouldn´t care if there was a solution for this problem, no matter how complicated the solution finally is. but there is none. at least we haven´t found one yet. and it´s not looking like we´re going to find one.

[Sava]

By using IFE, you can build courthouses faster, which would let you have 4-5 production instead of 1 per turn. Plus, the forbidden palace gets the shield bonuses from IFE. I built one in 19 turns.

[oedo]

Originally posted by SoulAssassin
By using IFE, you can build courthouses faster, which would let you have 4-5 production instead of 1 per turn.

not in my city I´m talking about. the courthouse didn´t change anything. one shield per turn, no matter what I do. ok, I lost count at 80 cities. the large number of cities is probably the main reason.

[SIZE=1] Plus, the forbidden palace gets the shield bonuses from IFE. I built one in 19 turns.

we´re talking in circles here. the shield bonus doesn´t work for the Forbidden Palace, a normal palace or any other wonder in my game. I can´t even start an improvement, add shields by IFE and switch to the Forbidden Palace. it simply doesn´t work.

there must be something else you´re doing to get that result. what level are you playing at?

[Capt Dizle]

Let me see if I understand what you are saying. You have 80+ cities and you are complaining about corruption?

[madmario]

Corruption is actually a good thing. Many people complain about the need to rapidly expand -- but corruption assaults this tactic as valid! It can't be both ways!

One mid game tactic (industrialization) tactic is:

1) Start building a wonder your capitol
1a) Start building a palace somewhere else where it will take a bit but not
forever
2) When the palace is done, switch your old capitol to forbidden palace.
This all has to be timed but it can be done so that you end up with the
forbidden palace in your old capitol. you can "palace jump" your palace
around from there to good spot, and reclaim the land of "oneshieldsuck."


This isn't great, but the system as is does help the underdog to a degree.


-mario

[Madine]

I think it's lame that in order to go for domination type wins you need to have a bunch of unproductive cities that you can't do anything about.

[Growler]

I think it's realistic and balanced that in order to go for domination type wins you need to have a bunch of unproductive cities that you can't do anything about. Good game design.

[oedo]

Originally posted by jimmytrick
Let me see if I understand what you are saying. You have 80+ cities and you are complaining about corruption?

hmmm, yes
to be precise, I have 80+ celebrating cities, mostly with courthouses inside.

in civ2 big empires had the problem with unhappiness. it wasn´t easy to manage - especially without happiness-wonders -, but it was possible. good players were able to handle this, mediocre players weren´t
this is what I expect here. when I have 80+ cities, or even when I have 8000+ cities, I´d like to see a way to work on this problem. I don´t expect the game engine making presents to me. I simply expect there is one way to handle this. but the way it is, it´s pointless. the less cities you have the better you are, that´s ridicoulous.

[Chuckles]

I have 20-30 cities on a single continent on a regular map with railroad connections to every city, courthouses in every city, and WLTKD, and I still have only 1 sheild in some cities with up to 20 going to corruption. This is just plain stupid. The game is great but this is stupid. It obviously counts distance by grid instead of by movement.

[oedo]

...oh and before I go to sleep I just have to tell you: the domestic advisor just told me to build more cities.

[barefootbadass]

Calm down folks, corruption will be toned down soon, hopefully in the first patch. That being said, I hope they don't tone it down too much, I like that element that makes it tough to control the world. Stuff like, cultural assimilation getting tougher nearer the enemies capital, and corruption(inefficiency) going up in vast empires. With 80+ cities I think your corruption should be pretty high, but that things like courthouses, low corruption governments, and being a commercial civ should be able to reduce it to about 60-80% loss.

[duxup]

In the forum over at civfanatics.com they have a solution for corruption that I have been using. It is quite effective.

http://makeashorterlink.com/?M2D82172