Do you think stacked unit movement/selecting units should be added in a Civ 3 patch?

[adaMada]

I've heard lots of people say that they think that the ability to move multiple units at the same time should really be added to Civ 3, as it'll make everyone's life easier -- not as a major first-patch-or-else thing, but as something that would be really nice if we had. Since I haven't heard anyone say anything bad about this yet, I was wondering... what does Apolyton in general think?

I see several ways this could be done, so I've made each of them an option. If you can think of another way, then just post it, but this is what I've come up with/heard of.
[list=1][*]You shift-click on a tile (or something like that), and then when you move, all units on that tile move together. This is probably the simplest thing to do, and still 'feels' very Civ-ish, in my opinion. Also, this is very non-cluttering, so someone who doesn't want to use this feature could avoid it easily.[*]Select multiple units. This idea is kind of complex, and the best way to describe it is probably to say "Starcraft". In short, you can drag/shift-click/whatever to select multiple units and be able to move/minipulate these units all at once (hopefully, if this was done, they'd take out Starcraft's nasty restriction of 12 units max). This would probably be more complex to do, but would be incredible late in the game. The only downside I see is that some people may feel like this is un-civish -- it just doesn't perserve Civ's authentic feel. Personally, I think that it's worth it, but... If you did this, some nitty-gritty game-play details would have to be worked out (if you attack, who exactly does the attacking, and what happens if you loose?), but I think that this would be such a powerful feature that would be so useful and would speed up playing the game so much that it's worth the hassle.[*]Same as #2, but with one important catch -- you can save groups/assign them to key commands. Again, the best way I know to describe this is Starcraft. For those who don't know what i'm talking about , here's how Starcraft does it: if you hit ctrl-1, that grouping is saved to the number one. If you hit 1, that group is selected. Etc, all the way through zero on the keyboard. If this were done in civ, i think this is the best way to do it, with one exception -- more than ten groups should be allowed (i doubt many people would use more then ten, but to not annoy those who would like to)... If I were trying to figure out how to do this, I'd make it that hitting 0 (or ctrl-0) brings up a box/prompt asking what group number you'd like -- this way, no one has to even know this feature exists if they don't want to.[*]Same as #1, but with a group-assignment feature like #3...[/list=1]

Personally, I'm for #3, though I understand why someone who says no would say no. I can also understand Faraxis saying "no, that's a major major gameplay change, not a tweak" -- I just think it'd be a great feature, that Civ games have been missing for a while.

The ideas above, and the inspiration for the ideas above, all came from this thread:
http://www.apolyton.net/forums/showt...threadid=33288
so i highly suggest checking it out. Timeline (thread creator) addresses most of the issues that would come up in his first post, and let me credit a huge portion of the ideas above to him. Also, if you don't understand what I'm saying above (if lots of people don't, I'll try to go back and make it more understandable), check out Timeline's post -- it's pretty much the basis for all the ideas posted above.

So... what do you think?

-- adaMada

[Trachmyr]

oops... I meant to vote for #1, but I accidently clicked "Leave it out... no one would use it" when I tried to submitt.

[adaMada]

Originally posted by Trachmyr
oops... I meant to vote for #1, but I accidently clicked "Leave it out... no one would use it" when I tried to submitt.

Ok, periodically I'll (or someone else can -- I'll just do it if no one else does) post stats that include any mistakes like this. That can also bump the thread, as right now it all seems to be at the bottom within minutes .

The current results are, then:
Basic Stacked Units (#1): 5
Complex Selected Units (#2): 2
#2 and also Groups (#3): 6
Stacked units and groups (#4): 2
Leave it out as uncivish: 0
Leave it out because no one will use: 1

If anyone else thinks this is worth keeping towards the top (and people are still voting on it but just not replying to the thread), then feel free to bump it, and post an updated results like this if you want to.

-- adaMada

[adaMada]

This thread is about what should be put in the patch -- and this issue has come up many many times.

Just to try to keep this as a fairly complete list of what all the various arguements and ideas are about this, I'll keep posting links to anywhere else I read this discussed.

-- adaMada

[adaMada]

*bump*

[adaMada]

dbl post, sorry

[GodSpawn]

I voted for #1, the simplest interface.

From CTP experience, the full-blown grouping UI got in the way. That's not to say it couldn't have been implemented better (it could, IMHO), but I think it's unneccessary.

Thinking about it, what I really want is none of the above. I'd like the following kind of UI:

* Groups are unlocked by default.

* You lock or unlock a group by right-clicking it and selecting "lock" or "unlock". Only one option will appear, depending upon the lock status of the selected group. No lock option will appear at all for singletons.

* Members of a locked group all move together. Members of unlocked groups move indiviually.

* A locked group has a little padlock icon next to it.

* If a group or singleton STOPS (rather than passing through) on a group, it is automatically added to the group.

* A group moves at the speed of its slowest member.

That'd cover just about everything I want from grouping.

[Ilkuul]

Thanks for posting this poll! I've been crying out for combined movement of stacked units for many months, and was bitterly disappointed when it was confirmed that Firaxis had left it out of Civ3. One of the most tedious parts of Civ2 for me has always been the endless and mindless movement of individual units all to the same destination in the endgame. I feel the lack of this most BASIC feature should definitely be remedied in the first patch!

I voted for your #1 as the simplest option, therefore most likely to be implemented (if at all). Some of the others sound good, though I haven't played games that worked that way... But let's [i]at least[/] get the ability to move a stack in a single operation!

[adaMada]

Originally posted by GodSpawn
I voted for #1, the simplest interface.

From CTP experience, the full-blown grouping UI got in the way. That's not to say it couldn't have been implemented better (it could, IMHO), but I think it's unneccessary.

Thinking about it, what I really want is none of the above. I'd like the following kind of UI:

* Groups are unlocked by default.

* You lock or unlock a group by right-clicking it and selecting "lock" or "unlock". Only one option will appear, depending upon the lock status of the selected group. No lock option will appear at all for singletons.

* Members of a locked group all move together. Members of unlocked groups move indiviually.

* A locked group has a little padlock icon next to it.

* If a group or singleton STOPS (rather than passing through) on a group, it is automatically added to the group.

* A group moves at the speed of its slowest member.

That'd cover just about everything I want from grouping.

In my opinion, what you've said pretty much is number one -- you've just gone through and given some of the details that hadn't been stated before (very good details though -- if they do a #1-type system, I hope they do it this way ). In short, #1 is really any system where you're able to move all the units on a tile together (w/o being able to remember certain groups or a more complex selecting system). I'll try to go back and make that more clear, sorry. Anyone who wants to vote for this option should vote for number one.

-- adaMada

[adaMada]

Originally posted by Ilkuul
I voted for your #1 as the simplest option, therefore most likely to be implemented (if at all). Some of the others sound good, though I haven't played games that worked that way... But let's [i]at least[/] get the ability to move a stack in a single operation!

I agree about what's most likely to happen, but I voted for #3 because that's what I'd like to see -- I think it goes without saying (it does for me, anyway) that, if I want to see #3, I also think #1's better than nothing...

I hope Faraxis reads and listens to this thread -- clearly, a very large majority of Civers want this feature. Personally, I really like Civ 3 (except the bugs, of course). Having said that, I think that this'd cut the amount of time it takes to play by so much that I'd play more -- if it doesn't take an hour per turn...

-- adaMada

PS: I will try to keep this bumped as long as people are still responding to the Poll part, but if it starts getting close to the bottom, I'd really appreciate it if anyone'd bump it -- maybe after you vote . I think that the best way to convince Faraxis to put this high on their "to-do" list of enhancements (under the bugs, of course, but...) is to show that an overwhelming number of Civers want it badly... which, so far, is exactly what this poll is showing.

[Skanky Burns]

I voted for the first option....


ok, ok, consider this post a *bump*

[Trifna]

I think that grouping units is something important in History. Espescially in non-modern warfare, where we are not talking of lots of tactically hidden marines, but of whole bunch of warriors. they didn't have always 200 against 200. A single group could be 500 or 3000 or else. So stacking units could permit it.

[Keyser Soze 0]

I voted for 4. It's simple, but with the group unit selections. Above all, the process should be simple - simple to add units and simple to take them out. I want to be able to collect a fleet in one city, be able to send them to the other side of the globe, ungroup it to form a flotilla, and drop my transports on a beachhead, with a minimum of fuss.

And it would also help with those dozens and dozens of workers strewn about.

[Timeline]

Good Thoughts. I agree that *anything* is better than nothing.

Minimum fuss is always the best.

[Trifna]

adaMada, what are these posts where it,s written "*bump*" in it? U made same on Timeline's thread

[Timeline]

Trifna,

A "bump" is just a quick cheap post to move this thread to the top so that everyone can see it . . . also a very good cheap way to increase your rank .



. . . oh yeah, almost forgot . . . *bump*

[adaMada]

Originally posted by Timeline
Trifna,

A "bump" is just a quick cheap post to move this thread to the top so that everyone can see it . . . also a very good cheap way to increase your rank .



. . . oh yeah, almost forgot . . . *bump*

lol, pretty much .

More seriously, I'm bumping this so much because A) people are still answering the poll, just not replying to the thread and B) because I'm not sure someone from Faraxis has seen this thread, and I think they probably should -- it'll show them what everyone wants, which clearly is stacked movement, or some varaition on that. Personally, I voted for #3 and would like to see #3, but what Godspawn said would make me more then personally happy, and I think that's why most people are voting #1...

-- adaMada

PS: *bump*

[rwz]

I vote for all of the above in any way shape or form. I loath the late middle, end game when you are moving units from one side of your empire to another. It seems I am costantly moving workers back and forth for pollution! Or moving units from one front to another. I dont understand why this is left out.

[Timeline]

rws,

Press Shift-P to tell your workers to clean up pollution only. This little feature is a great thing, it helps alot in managing workers.

But we still need stack ability!!

[Trifna]

/me gives a slap in the face to Timeline with a Ford bumper

[adaMada]

*bump*

[Trifna]

Hey, stop that bump thing. If it doesn't stay out, it's because people don't goive enough value to it.

[adaMada]

Originally posted by Trifna
Hey, stop that bump thing. If it doesn't stay out, it's because people don't goive enough value to it.

As I said before, I was bumping as long as people were still voting on it, which does not bump it to the top. As most people had stopped voting, I'm now going tp leave it alone unless someone else responds (and was going to before you posted), but since you've taken it to the top anyway...

Message for Firaxis: Less than ten people DON'T want this in some form. Over 100 do. So... can you please patch this in sometime? Pleeesseee ?

-- adaMada

EDIT: Minor wording changes, didn't sound quite right...

[GodSpawn]

[BUMP]

[Spiffor]

Great ideas AdaMada. They are constructive and try to include stacking in a non-CTP point of view. I personnaly go for #4 : it's not complicated and assigning numbers would be great.
About combat, I think it should be impossible for the stack to attack as a whole (otherwise the great leaders wouldn't be of interest). Maybe there should be a popup before the attack, like when you unload a transport.

[quinalla]

Yes! Please put this in, it would be awesome! I voted for #1 because it is the most civ-ish. As for a group of units attacking, either it wouldn't let you attack with a group (like you can't attack with a worker) or if you do attack with a group, it would attack with the "best" offensive unit and continue attacking until the group no longer had any attacks or the units in the other square were dead and you could move in. I think it would be much simpler to not let a group attack, I would want to pick which units do/don't attack myself.

-quinalla