CTP 2 vs CIV III

[Yolky]

OK. I just starting playing Civ III so I dont know all the features as of yet. I tried playing CTP but I didnt have much time to play but liked the game when I did play it.

CTP has way better graphics. Civ 3 are good but not great. What the hell are those potatoes in Civ 3? Oh they are mountains. At least in CTP they look like mountains.

CTP has the indicator when the computer players are moving. Civ3 has nothing the hourglass cursor. Never know when my computer is freezing or about to be my turn. No indicator when its players turn.

CTP and Civ3 take forever and a day sometimes to complete a turn. Takes away the addictingness away to play the game. YEAH I know i only have a 300mghz computer but cant aford to upgrade computer for ever new game that comes out.

CTP ai sucked. Civ3 seems to be SOOOOOOOOOOOOOo much better.

CTP and Civ3 for trading seems to suck right now. I offer my cities like 3 and 4 plus money and they still refuse to trade. THEY that stupid? who would give up four cities and money for one tech?

CTP has Public works. That is an AWSOME FEATURE. Civ 3 has Workers. Same old Same old. At least CTP did something different and revoluniary. Too bad not many people liked it. it was more realalistic.

CTP has Activison. Activison stinks for tech support or putting out patches. Will not buy anthor Activsion product again.

Civ3 will have to see.

At least CTP came with a good EDITOR. Civ3 has Squawk. They promised an editor but came out with a map maker instead.

So far I see the Civ comunity making mods just like they did for CTP. Not good at all. Fraxis should give us at least an Apology for this rushed product.

CTP has an AWSOME tech tree with units and wonders etc. Civ3 had a lousy tech poster that is a copy from the Civopediea. What GARBAGE.


All in all CTP was a good game just as Civ3 is a good game. I expected Civ3 to be MORE, but it looks like more CTP3 instead.

Am i wrong? I like Civ3 but not as hooked as Civ2 where I lost sleep for weeks.

Hope the patch will fix things.

Davor

[ComputerEnginee]

besides not setting start locations and putting units on the map, WHAT IS WRONG WITH THE EDITOR??

It kicks ass!!

You can edit almost anything with the editor!! heck, you can even modify the wonders !

Once they have a patch and fix the ability to set start locations and put units on the map (for scenario creators), the editor for Civ 3 will be in a league of its own.

[Yolky]

it should have come out. That was advertised. A game editor not a map editor. Until we can place units and starting location its not that great.

Davor

[FrostyBoy]

I went back to look at ctp2's graphics and I found them to be too squarey and dull. I never realised how much better civ3's land structure is until I saw ctp2's. However, granted, the terrain graphics themsevles, mountains, plantlife, etc, all look like someone puked all over the monitor. I've fixed all these graphics now, the graphics look good enough to stare at now

MarkG will have those gfx up for download soon..

Civ2 also has the indicator of what civ is having its turn, quite often I found myself wondering and wanting that idicator in civ3 also, I don't think it will be hard to implement in a patch for civ3.

Civ3 will take forever if u are on a low end system, try turning off the music, make sure ur on the minimum resolution, don't play large maps (I know a guy who has a 300mhz, so I would suggest tiny or small for map and no more than 4 civs).

never liked public works, I liked looking at my workers working the land. not that its relevant.

never got to play a long enough game with ctp to understand its AI, but a few good things I did notice was that it would defend itself really well, it would put defensive units around its attacked city and even put fortresses around them. I found that to be actually quite good. I havent noticed Civ3's AI do anything like that, it doesnt even seem to fortify its units much at all. it just constantly moves them around like it actually has something to do. sigh but.. I have yet to see how smart the AI is in Civ3.

Activision does stink, agreed.

Civ3 also has a good editor, but it's been stated by firaxis that they didn't make the editor as good as they wanted it to be, but they are fixing it up and hopefully releasing it in the patch.

Civ3 was rushed, agreed, but i think Infogrames plays a big part in that. Publishers, what do they know? nudda.

don't care much for a tech tree, I mean come on, a tech tree?

I've lost heaps of sleep over civ3, lost none over ctp

[ComputerEnginee]

you lost heaps of sleep? I lost more than that! I may start to lose my marks this term because I'm spending so much time with this addictive game called Civ 3!

[Urban Ranger]

Yeah, personally Civ 3 isn't as good as it should be, so Infogrames is to be blamed for rushing this thing outta door. On the other hand, Sid should have more backbone as he is actively involved, telling the suits to back off till the game is done.

Nevermind.

[Ecthy]

http://apolyton.net/misc/column/106_advice.shtml

[August Borms]

CTP has way better graphics. Civ 3 are good but not great. What the hell are those potatoes in Civ 3? Oh they are mountains. At least in CTP they look like mountains.

I think they're pretty close, they both look a little weird but nothing that really bothers me.

CTP ai sucked. Civ3 seems to be SOOOOOOOOOOOOOo much better.

Anything is better than the CTP ai

CTP has Public works. That is an AWSOME FEATURE. Civ 3 has Workers. Same old Same old. At least CTP did something different and revoluniary. Too bad not many people liked it. it was more realalistic.

I agree, and not only because it takes so long for the computer to show the movements of the AI workers and your automated workers, PW is just better and more fun.

At least CTP came with a good EDITOR. Civ3 has Squawk. They promised an editor but came out with a map maker instead.

Yeah, the regular game is already quickly becoming boring for me

[Adagio]

Originally posted by Yolky
CTP has way better graphics. Civ 3 are good but not great. What the hell are those potatoes in Civ 3? Oh they are mountains. At least in CTP they look like mountains.

I only know 2 ctp games, and none of them had better graphics than civ3. Civ3 graphics is great, while ctp graphics was just there, nothing special, just there...

Originally posted by Yolky
CTP has the indicator when the computer players are moving. Civ3 has nothing the hourglass cursor. Never know when my computer is freezing or about to be my turn. No indicator when its players turn.

You're right about that one

Originally posted by Yolky
CTP ai sucked. Civ3 seems to be SOOOOOOOOOOOOOo much better.

And I believe we all can agree to that one too

Originally posted by Yolky
CTP and Civ3 for trading seems to suck right now. I offer my cities like 3 and 4 plus money and they still refuse to trade. THEY that stupid? who would give up four cities and money for one tech?

Yes, there's still some room for improvements in both games

Originally posted by Yolky
CTP has Public works. That is an AWSOME FEATURE. Civ 3 has Workers. Same old Same old. At least CTP did something different and revoluniary. Too bad not many people liked it. it was more realalistic.

It was awsome annoying that feature...I'm just soooooo happy to be able to build those improvements with my worker instead

Originally posted by Yolky
At least CTP came with a good EDITOR. Civ3 has Squawk. They promised an editor but came out with a map maker instead.

You call that an editor??? At least Civ3 came with something which looks like an editor

Originally posted by Yolky
All in all CTP was a good game just as Civ3 is a good game. I expected Civ3 to be MORE, but it looks like more CTP3 instead.

Am i wrong? I like Civ3 but not as hooked as Civ2 where I lost sleep for weeks.

Hope the patch will fix things.

Davor

Well, you kinda missed to talk about the greatest improvements of civ3; Culture, a much better diplomacy screen, new ways to win the game, etc, etc, etc...

[Victor Galis]

CTP II can not even begin to compare to the glory of Civ, because CTP is a cheap knock off.

"CTP has way better graphics. Civ 3 are good but not great. What the hell are those potatoes in Civ 3? Oh they are mountains. At least in CTP they look like mountains."

-Maybe, CTP II graphics didn't really impress me, and this isn't about graphics.

"CTP has the indicator when the computer players are moving. Civ3 has nothing the hourglass cursor. Never know when my computer is freezing or about to be my turn. No indicator when its players turn."

-It says please wait... when it's not your turn.

"CTP and Civ3 take forever and a day sometimes to complete a turn. Takes away the addictingness away to play the game. YEAH I know i only have a 300mghz computer but cant aford to upgrade computer for ever new game that comes out."

-Yeah, same on a 800 MHz computer. Maybe you can turn off some animations (I know civ2 turns ran so much faster when you turned off some enemy move animations).

"CTP ai sucked. Civ3 seems to be SOOOOOOOOOOOOOo much better."

-Yeah, it kicked my ass first game!

"CTP has Public works. That is an AWSOME FEATURE. Civ 3 has Workers. Same old Same old. At least CTP did something different and revoluniary. Too bad not many people liked it. it was more realalistic."

-Not really. You could generate public works in your capital and spend it in the far corners of your empire, and enemies could not attack the workers doing this. The classic is better. I like the idea of capturing workers too.

"CTP has Activison. Activison stinks for tech support or putting out patches. Will not buy anthor Activsion product again."

-God

"Am i wrong? I like Civ3 but not as hooked as Civ2 where I lost sleep for weeks."

-Bound to happen. Civ2 was such a radical improvement on civ, but there's not much you can do to the game now and still call it civ, without either adding too much micromanagement or pissing off core fans who like their civ games to work a certain way.

"Civ3 will take forever if u are on a low end system, try turning off the music, make sure ur on the minimum resolution, don't play large maps (I know a guy who has a 300mhz, so I would suggest tiny or small for map and no more than 4 civs)."

-Huge with 16 civs, and the music on takes a long time with 800 MHz too But hey, I like my games with plenty of opponents.

"Yeah, personally Civ 3 isn't as good as it should be, so Infogrames is to be blamed for rushing this thing outta door. On the other hand, Sid should have more backbone as he is actively involved, telling the suits to back off till the game is done."

-Well, if the game had come out next week instead of last week, I'd be playing EU2 instead.

I'm a definite fan of culture though. It is possible to have possibly the 3rd puniest civ (of 16), a mild tech lead, be the richest, have the most wonders, and still look impresssive because of your culture. (Yeah, i got stuck on a little peninsula type place, but I'm rich enough to pur 100% of my money into Tech, and soak the per turn loss with my massive treasury (made selling maps of the world))

[Victor Galis]

Yeah, I like selling world maps. Consider:

You have the light house, this freedom of movement allows you to discover a second continet full of civs. You have full maps of yours. You sell the new civ maps of your continent for a map of theirs and contact with the civs is traded likewise. Then you sell everyone else a map of half the world and half the contacts, and make a killing. When there's 3 major continents you do it twice, and you're set financially for a long, long time.

[Immortal Wombat]

Originally posted by Yolky
CTP has way better graphics. Civ 3 are good but not great. What the hell are those potatoes in Civ 3? Oh they are mountains. At least in CTP they look like mountains.

I agree. The Civ3 graphics just dropped out of Itchy and Scratchy.

CTP has the indicator when the computer players are moving. Civ3 has nothing the hourglass cursor. Never know when my computer is freezing or about to be my turn. No indicator when its players turn.

Damn. Another useful feature not adopted.

CTP ai sucked. Civ3 seems to be SOOOOOOOOOOOOOo much better.

Kudos to Firaxis

CTP and Civ3 for trading seems to suck right now. I offer my cities like 3 and 4 plus money and they still refuse to trade. THEY that stupid? who would give up four cities and money for one tech?

I found CTP trading worked ok, though the AI was reluctant to seel tech, but not that reluctant.

CTP has Public works. That is an AWSOME FEATURE. Civ 3 has Workers. Same old Same old. At least CTP did something different and revoluniary. Too bad not many people liked it. it was more realalistic.

Yeah, but isn't it fun to move 2000 workers aorund, pressing I and R on every tile? No? Really? Are you mad?

CTP has Activison. Activison stinks for tech support or putting out patches. Will not buy anthor Activsion product again.

Activision suck. Apolyton does not.

At least CTP came with a good EDITOR. Civ3 has Squawk. They promised an editor but came out with a map maker instead.

The Civ3 editor looks fairly good compared to Civ2's file editing (though an events editor would have been good), but compared to the file system in CTP, I dont know how it performs (SCRIPTING LANGUAGE!!)

So far I see the Civ comunity making mods just like they did for CTP. Not good at all. Fraxis should give us at least an Apology for this rushed product.

Modding is fun.

CTP has an AWSOME tech tree with units and wonders etc. Civ3 had a lousy tech poster that is a copy from the Civopediea. What GARBAGE.

Why does it have to finish in the modern age? Dont you think by the time we send ships to AC we will advanced in some/all fields of research?

Originally posted by ComputerEnginee
besides not setting start locations and putting units on the map, WHAT IS WRONG WITH THE EDITOR??

It kicks ass!!

You can edit almost anything with the editor!! heck, you can even modify the wonders !

If you had ever played around with the CtP files you would not have made such a statement. You can edit wonders? WooHoo. Its a - point that you couldnt in Civ2, not a + that you can in Civ3. The idea that they are uneditable is ridiculous. CtP has editable wonders, with editable names, flags, production costs, effects, enabling units, whatever you like. Its nothing special. The civ3 editor is just a program to do all the cool bits of scenario making for you.

Civ3 may be a better SP game, I won't deny the CtP AI needs completely rebuilding if it wants to be good. (NB. It could be rebuilt, try that in Civ3 ) For scenarios and mods, CtP2 kicks 8 kinds of sh!t out of Civ3.

[Pilfur]

I can't play Civ3 on my low end system and monitor (which is pretty nuts considering civ3 really isn't that graphics or sound intensive). But I have played Civ3 at a friend's house and I must say, I really wasn't as impressed as I'd hoped I'd been.

The AI was good. The graphics were not. CTP2 has clearly defined graphics in that you can tell what is what, and it puts forth a smooth unbusy overall feel. Civ3 graphics are ok really, but hard to look at. It seems busy looking tome.

The Opening movie absolutely rocks in CTP2 and absolutely sucks in Civ3 (not that it matters)

The key fault with civ 3 in my opinion is that I haven't been able to find a way to stack units and form armies. In CTP you can combine units with different abilities into comprehensive armies. An army of all archers would suck, as would an army of all spearmen, but put the two together and they rock. Neat idea. Why can't I do that in Civ3 (or can I, and I just dunno how?)

The minor civ idea, having barbarians come from somewhere was a good idea, but not orriginal. It was directly taken from Colonization (my favourite civ style game). Culture was also a nice touch that I'd like to have seen developed further.

[Der PH]

I think, I'll miss the future in Civ3 (Don't have the game yet due to living in europe).

The thing that prevents me from playing CTP2 any more and longing for Civ3 is the AI. CTP2's really sucks! I know, because I played a lot of CTP2.

[The Rusty Gamer]

Originally posted by Der PH
The thing that prevents me from playing CTP2 any more and longing for Civ3 is the AI. CTP2's really sucks! I know, because I played a lot of CTP2.

Did you try the CTP 2 Medieval Pack which you can download from this site? It makes such a great difference to the game! IT makes it really worth playing. Without it so-so. With it-addictive.

[Der PH]

Originally posted by Russell
Did you try the CTP 2 Medieval Pack which you can download from this site? It makes such a great difference to the game! IT makes it really worth playing. Without it so-so. With it-addictive.

I played MedPack most of the time. It's really great and the main reason for me to play CTP2 for such a long time at all.
MedPack's got a really great tech tree, well balanced units (although I disabled the counterbombarding completely. The only thing, I didn't like) and a historically correct feeling that I had with no other game before.
The only thing Wes didn't manage IMHO is to make the AI competitive. It still sucked! I always played impossible level and won every single war I fought! The AI was not able to defend its own territory, let alone invade mine.
The only challenge was to catch up with the AI's science, but sooner or later I always managed this and then the game got boring and I stopped it (and started another one).

Wes did a really great job and I enjoyed playing CTP2 for a long time, but at last the weak AI got me to stop it.

[Andemagne]

my Civ3 crashes 5 times per hour.
my CTP2 only once per hour.

[The Rusty Gamer]

Originally posted by Andemagne
my Civ3 crashes 5 times per hour.
my CTP2 only once per hour.

It sounds like your computer in general needs a look at. Some sort of driver conflict by the sound of things. You'd probably find other games will crash as well.

[Foro]

played ctp2 with the apolyton pack and allmost every slic i could get my hand on. (AI gaining more PW, AI building trade tiles and so on..)
I built my own small scenario and let the AI start with wonders like the internet, cities and more..
designed the scenario for hotseat to play it with a friend who is also addictiv to roundbased games but as allways we stoped close to the modern age and why ?
The tactic of the AI just sucks...
I had Cavalary units as my best units and the computer had machine gunners and artillery. It had almost 20 more advances, 38 cities and a ton of troops but it was no problem to win the war.
The AI does not attack stacks of 9 or more units (at least of the same tech) It never attacks stacks of 12 units. When doing an artillery duell (for example the AI defends a mountain pass ..better say accidentially defend because it was poor luck of the AI and not planned) I started an artillery duell and while i just reinfored lost units (kept my stack to 12 units) the AI didnt so it was easy to breach the pass.
The AI didnt really defend its empire...yes lots of troop stacks but they just stand there waiting for something i guess.
The AI could have easily whiped my ass with so many and so advanced troops but nothing happend. I could crush one after another. As a human player balancing your stacks is important (right mix of ranged units close comabt units and flanking units)
The AI just cant do that and so the 12 army stack can easily be beaten.
Another trick is to have a balanced stack to crush the way into the empire then let a pure fast moving unit of 12 follow (for example knights) to attack the cities in the heart of the AIs empire. Poor defended so no match.
No counter Attacks of the AI, no real try to strike at my empire.

So finally CTP2 is no longer a challange for me nor my friend.

We are back playing Master of Orion 2 untill the release of Civ 3 or MOO 3 in germany ;p
(Try MOO 2 starting at impossible and pre warp with a race that is not custom made and you know its a challenge hehe. Even the ship design of the AI is really smart and taking the race features into account)

I just really hope that Civ 3 has two features....
A challanging AI who acually is able fight and use its troops in a smart manner (not just with masses of troops) and a hotseat mode in the german version when they (well promised that hehe) put the multiplayer option into the game.

[War4ever]

both deserve the trash can......ca'nt say i liked either very much both were major diappointments

[Raion]

I gave up playing CTP II because of the interface. Missed messages, all the time.


One mods the rules of Civ III by moding Civ3mod.bic in the editor and using one of the menu commands. Tab windows come up and anything about can be "modded" to play the game, if needed. Now, a patch has come out and except for DX8 drivers for sound, which I rename the sound.dll to sound'dl_ and really do not listen to the sounds, until a new computer or DX8 sound card with drivers, the interface is good to me. I like workers instead of public works, and the other is on the City Screen, where you take care of the City.





(Part of the Game -- give the workers orders -- give them all orders -- are you not the Emperor, whatever!).
Play options can turn off when starting a new game, now stay the same until one changes the 'WIN' conditions.
Add name by clicking on the name of the computer player, I am playing.

Keep playing CIV III, a game you hate, and then love, because it is only a computer game. (Patch includes some additional items for editor!). Remember CIV II did not include some of this stuff until a patch came out later, then scenarios, then the NWO scenario with even different units, graphics done by 'Scenario Makers" and such.

On and on, in Civ II.