Need some advice for my Thirty Years' War Scenario....

The Capo · December 26, 2000, 11:59

I have two issues in the Thirty Years' War Scenario that I already told my playtesters to ignore for now because I already know but can't fix it, but I bet they tell me about it....

The first one is that my Protestant Dragoon unit doesn't come up. No matter what, its not due to Fundamentalism either because the Protestant Union is a fundy in my scenario. Its not due to a tech mistake becuase I already made sure everything was correct. And its not because I accidentally made them a naval unit because I already checked that issue out too. So what could it be?

Also, I have a unit called a "Field Piker" and it is in the slot that the Engineer used to be in, eveyrtime you get the technology to build a Field Piker it says "Use 'o' to change the terrain" or some crap like that, how do I remove this?

Thanks a lot man.

The Cap'

Hendrik the Great · December 26, 2000, 12:31

What are the attack, defence and movement allowances of the unit? Is it in a slot before or after the musketeere or knight?

If the Attack/Defence-Values are lower than the ones of another unit with the same movement the AI won't build it because they are useless to them.

If the musketeere slot unit can be build most units to the left of it can no longer be built if I am right. Also there is something similiar with the knight units that affects move 2 units.

You can not get rid of the Message I belive but you can change it to anything you like in the game.txt to add some extra feeling to your scenario.

How about a message that reads something like:
"Due to the introduction of Field Piker..."

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The Capo · December 26, 2000, 12:33

Its not that the AI won't build it, its that there is no chance for them to build it, it doesn't show up in the menu.

See what I'm saying?

The Capo · December 26, 2000, 12:34

Also, every other civ builds their Dragoons (Ex. Habsburg Dragoons, Prussian Dragoons) they all build them, but the Protestants can't build their Dragoons!

The Capo · December 26, 2000, 14:03

Okay I will try to explain, maybe you need the file, if so just post that here....

I have seven tribes; French, Habsburgs, Swedes, Independant States, Polish, Protestant Union, and the Prussians.

For each civ there are two civ specific techs.
Habsburg and Habkill
France and FranKill
Sweden and SweKill

You get the idea....

The "Kill" technology voids all of their units, the other one allows all of their units. Thus its a double protectorate I guess.

Futher I have NO'd both of them so that no other tribe is able to recieve the technology in questoin. The technology Protestants allows Protestant Dragoons, and the technology ProKill disables them. It should also be noted that Protestant Infantry is given by Protestants and is taken by ProKill, but the Protestant Union is able to select the Infantry whereas they are unable to select the Dragoons.

Just so everyone knows, the Protestant Dragoons are in the CATAPULT spot. Their tech requirement is Protestants, and their obsolecence is ProKill they are an attack unit on the ground.

As for the Field Piker, it is a military unit that when combined with a field gunner on the battlefield is unstoppable as a tandem.

This is an attack unit on the ground, which uses Field Tactics as a requirement and has no obsolence, I still cannot think of why that stupid thing comes up, not to mention the fact that the Field Piker cannot even use the 'o' option, so I think its just part of the game.

Hopefully that explains the situation, if not I could send you the beta version I have completed for you to look over, if you are interested.

Exile · December 26, 2000, 14:22

Capo; My utmost sympathies in attempting to wrestle a quality scenario into place. It sure is frustrating sometimes, huh. Now to see if I can help.

About the Pike unit in the engineer slot; get it out of that slot. That slot has the special ability of allowing settler-type units the engineering bonus abilities. No other slot does that, IIRC.

About the Protestant Horse unit; Sometimes, if a unit is placed in the #s 3-6 slots, it will be automatically obsoleted if a unit in the #8 slot, the default musketeer slot has a greater attack value. If the unit in the #8 slot has larger attack values than units in the predeeding 5 unit slots, those 5 will not be built. The #8 slot is kinda goofy, but there are rules about how to use 'em; see the Scenario League site and it's design help stuff. Also keep in mind that the Knight slot (#19, IIRC) will obsolete other horse (movement 2 or above) units in slots 16 & 17. Again, if their attack values are less than the horse unit in slot 19. I believe that if you increase the attack values, the auto-obsoleting might not occur. You could try it just to determine if that is the problem. Alternately, you could just play around with slots 8 & 19 until you get the right units there.

I re-did an old Civil War scenario and it had a lot of Native American "cities" in it. I placed all the native American units in the early slots and made all the other, later slots modern firearms-units. Without having to devote any tech to obsoleting units, the native American units simply didn't appear for any of the other civs. You can use the weirdness of the auto-obsolete business to your advantage, if you plan it well.

DO take a look over a the Scenario League site; the information there is invaluable.

Hope this helps.

Salutations,
Exile

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Lost in America
"a freaking mastermind." --Stefu
"or a very good liar." --Stefu
[This message has been edited by Exile (edited December 26, 2000).]
[This message has been edited by Exile (edited December 26, 2000).]

Hendrik the Great · December 26, 2000, 20:44

Cam: That might well be, I made this experience but others wrote different. So I guess you are right about it. Always glad to learn something new.

Capo: I have to see it in order to make some sense out of it. I'm not very good at understanding explanations, I need to see it.
Could you email me the files that are affected by this? How big are they compressed? Don't let them be over 500K or my mailbox cannot hold it.

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Mathias' Civ II Page
http://members.nbci.com/thalys

Cam · December 27, 2000, 01:12

quote:

Originally posted by Hendrik the Great on 12-26-2000 11:31 AM
If the musketeere slot unit can be build most units to the left of it can no longer be built if I am right. Also there is something similiar with the knight units that affects move 2 units.

Hendrick,

The Knights thing is right and generally the Musketeer thing is wrong... change the prerequisites of Musketeers to 'nil' and they more often than not can be built at the same time as its traditional predecessors. I am assuming this must have been a 'version dependent' thing because it's mentioned so often.

Capo,

Protestant Dragoon

Have you got an 'obsolete' technology for the unit that the Protestants have that the other tribes don't? Another idea... make it possible for the Protestants to build the unit in the Riflemen slot, as if the Fanatics' slot unit can't be built due to a switch out of 'Fundi' the build list defaults to Riflemen.

Field Piker

Sorry, I don't understand the nature of the problem. Is the 'Field Piker' a Settler-style unit or a military unit?

The Capo · December 27, 2000, 21:36

Strange occurance, I changed the Prod Dragoons from Attack to Defend and they popped up, but when I checked the other cities, the Habsburgs can't build their Dragoons. But when I put it on Defend the same occurs, now no Dragoons can be built unless they are defensive units. Why is this?

The Capo · December 27, 2000, 21:40

Now that I have screwed with everything, NOBODY can build their respective Dragoons unless they are set to Defend rather than Attack, this is getting lame quickly!!!!!

Exile · December 28, 2000, 00:11

It sure does sound like it's getting auto-obsoleted by a unit w/a higher attack or defense value in one of either the musketeer or knights slot. You might try placing the unit in another slot, possibly one of the extras, just to see if it becomes available. Any result would provide you w/more information than you have now.

Try reading THIS

Hope this helps,
Exile

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Lost in America
"a freaking mastermind." --Stefu
"or a very good liar." --Stefu
[This message has been edited by Exile (edited December 27, 2000).]
[This message has been edited by Exile (edited December 27, 2000).]
[This message has been edited by Exile (edited December 27, 2000).]

The Capo · December 28, 2000, 01:04

The problem is I am using every available unit slot!!!!

KhanMan · December 28, 2000, 03:46

Capo-Would love to help you with this, but Santa appears to have left me off your mailing list this year...perhaps hotmail is hijacking the sleigh? Would love to try to tinker a solution to this...

*hint, hint*

-KhanMan

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Sprecher der ToT
First Minister of Machiavellia Cybernation
Founder, OTAATFPM
(Off Topic Apolytoners Against The Finnish Power-Mongers)
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"Is that a scroll in your toga, little boy?"
-Socrates, Phaedrus Dialogue, 238e

The Capo · December 28, 2000, 11:37

Alright, here is my unit "chart" for you so you can see the situation, the circled unit represents the Protestant Dragoon....

Whats's been happening is weird, when I set the Protestant Dragoons to a defensive unit, they appear in the menu.

To clarify what I have been saying, its not that the AI won't build them, the problem is that they don't appear in the Protestant Union city menu, whether AI or Human-Controlled.

And I cannot thank everyone enough for this, I will be sure to put all of your names in the Read Me.

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"We shall defend our island, whatever the cost may be, we shall fight on the beaches, we shall fight on the landing grounds, we shall fight in the fields and in the streets, we shall fight in the hills; we shall never surrender."

-Winston Churchill

"Ceterum censo Carthaginem esse delendam"
"Also I think that Carthage must be destroyed"

-Cato the Elder, Roman Statesmen

One Love.

Exile · December 28, 2000, 12:14

Huzzah! I'm going to be listed in a readme file!

Seriously, Capo; Great unit graphics, a fine selection of nice period images. Wish I could help more. I've thought about it, and can't figure out why altering the role brings the unit into existence and out of it. I can see that you're using every slot. My first suggestion is to switch slots for the troublesome unit and another, perhaps one w/no attack or defense value. Or, place a no attack or defense value unit in the slots (#8, #19) where the "trigger" units are normally located. This CAN play hell with sound allocation, I know, but the switch might demonstrate some more mechanics of the problem. If you KNEW exactly what was happening, you could do something constructive about it.

Also, be aware that the unit currently in the partisans slot can be difficult. If you've renamed the Guerilla Warfare tech, and one of your scen-civs has it, whenever one of their cities is taken, several examples of the unit in the partisan slot will appear and will act like partisans. I saw what looked like a great scenario once, imperialism period. Unluckily, however, whenever a city was taken, Zulu warriors would emerge in the role of partisans, Even if the city was in Russia, because they were in that slot.

Salutations,
Exile

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Lost in America
"a freaking mastermind." --Stefu
"or a very good liar." --Stefu

St Leo · December 28, 2000, 21:52

As for the Guerilla Warfare tip, thanks, but I already knew and made sure that I didn't write over that slot.

I am pretty sure Communism is the real trigger for that.

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St. Leo
http://www.sidgames.com/hosted/ziggurat/
http://www.sidgames.com/forums/

The Capo · December 29, 2000, 01:05

Well the problem has been fixed.

The problem rested in the low defense rate given to the Protestant Dragoons. I realized this when I went back and changed all Dragoons from defense 3 to defense 2, the Prod's Dragoons were already at 2, because they were generally ill-equipped compared to the other nation's mounted units.

What occured was what gave it away, now no nation could build their respective Dragoons. I realized that if I uppped the Protestant Dragoons to a defense of 3 they appeared, while the other Dragoons were non-existant. Thus I realized that I had to keep the defense rates at 3 accross the board.

As for the Guerilla Warfare tip, thanks, but I already knew and made sure that I didn't write over that slot. The first playtest version I put out was horrendous, but I was antsy to get it out since I have been working on this scenario, off and on for over a year now. I can't remember but I think two of these units are my own incarnations, I know for sure that the Pirate (row five column three) was my work completley, and I am quite proud of it.

The second playtest (v1.2) should be "released" on Monday, but I am not sure. I want everything to be in place this time so that the only real problems are possible graphics/gameplay issues, and not within the files.

Again, thanks for your help everyone, I really needed it. I hope you all enjoy my sceanrio, I got a lot of crap from everyone because I said I was going to make the best TYW scenario out there, and all of Jesus' Munoz/Balisade?????'s friends took offense.

Hopefully I can show them that I am seriously trying hard to make this work!!!!

The Cap'

The Capo · December 29, 2000, 01:48

Regardless, I used the extra advances for my advances, there aren't too much in this scenario.