Please, could you help a desperate soul?

[Jokka das Trevas]

Please, help me!
I WANT to like this game (I mean it!), but I can't help finding it not what I expected.

Since I myself am adept (at least try to ) at the thought "don't whine, act on it", I would like that you guys could help me on some difficulties I have, so I could enjoy the game as I want to.

Since everyone here likes the game, I assume you're getting it better than me, so I would like a few hints on specific subjects, if you could

- "Terraforming"

Ok, so I suck and got the bad luck of starting near either a forest, jungle, arid or tundra extension. (I mean GREAT extension - think of the amazon forest in Earth's map).

Jungles and forests are nearly useless in food terms, brings diseases and are difficult to build roads or clear.

Tundras don't get anything useful. Arid can be cultivated, but are not so great.

And, maybe, just to get things complicated, there isn't a fresh water supply nearby.

What can I do?

[Monoriu]

-before you start a game, picking an older planet will result in a more diverse landscape.

-you can build a city on a jungle tile. It will automatically clear it to grassland. I THINK it also applies to forest tiles though I am not sure.

-jungle, when cleared, becomes grassland, which is a great source of food. Yes, it takes a while, but if you play an industrious civ it will cut down the time in half. Another way is to pack 4 or more workers. Takes about 6 turns to clear one tile this way.

-you can plant forests in tundra tiles to make them more productive.

-desert tiles can be irrigated or mined, so they are quite flexible and are not so bad after you develop railroad.

-don't ignore desert or tundra tiles. Oil tends to appear in these tiles later in the game. The more these tiles you possess, the higher the chance you'll get oil.

-diseases are not a real problem. Think about it, dieseases only occur near jungles (grassland after terraforming) and floodplains. Both of these types of tiles are vast sources of food. Cities that are near these tiles usually have fast pop. growth. It doesn't matter if you lose a pop. or two to disease.

-forests are good sources of shields in the early game. You can easily clear them to have grassland or plains. You can also plant-replant them indefinitely for instant shields. However, raidroads don't improve them at all.

-sometimes its necessary to irrigate tiles just to "build a corridor" from a fresh water source to some of your cities. But its possible that some areas of the game can't be irrigated before the development of electricity.

-build your first city in a not-so-good location, then produce several warriors to scout the surroundings. Pick a good location for your next and subsequent cities.

-don't be afraid to scout using your initial settler and worker for 3-4 turns before founding your cities. Don't wait too long, but you can afford 3-4 turns.

-if the location really sucks, restart Seriously, this is a game, why tortue yourself? Unfavourable location = challenge; Really bad location = no fun.

[HunterAssasin]

Myself if I start on a tundra expanse I restart, in the beginning of the game haveing your city here well sucks.

As for jungles I had a game where I started on a very large jungle expanse and eventually won that game and conquered the entire continet, what I did was build like 6 or 7 workers and have them clear on section of the jungle at a time then irrigate and place a road on them, soon you'll have a great spot. After I built the workers I worked on settlers to expand and was friendly to give me time to chop down all the jungles and get my emperor up and working.

[Enigma]

Not only is terraforming bad land into good (ala SMAC) impossible, but bonus/luxury/strategic resources can factor into it and give you a TERRIBLE start position.

Start a new game, you are f*cked.

[Jokka das Trevas]

Thanks, I appreciate the hints.

Another thing: I noticed that sometimes you do irrigation or mines, but the food/shield production on the square doesn't improve at all.

Why is it? And how to avoid it from happening?

[Zealot]

Originally posted by Jokka das Trevas
Thanks, I appreciate the hints.

Another thing: I noticed that sometimes you do irrigation or mines, but the food/shield production on the square doesn't improve at all.

Why is it? And how to avoid it from happening?

Probably because your government is despotism. Discover Monarchy or Republic.

[Jokka das Trevas]

Originally posted by Zealot


Probably because your government is despotism. Discover Monarchy or Republic.

True enough. Thanks again

[Jokka das Trevas]

OH, another thing that I haven't seem much details on manual: combat bonuses.

I mean, I know that hills, rivers and montains gives defense bonus - but it seems that certain terrains give an attack penalty, too.

I noticed that attacking units that came from a forest/jungle square (don't remember wich) seems to get a weaker attack than it should, even if the attacked units is on a grassland or plains.

Anyone has a deeper insight on all combat-specific issues with terrain and such?

[Monoriu]

I know that attacking across rivers has a penalty to the attacker or a bonus to the defender. I have never heard of the attack penalty that you described, but then I don't know a lot of things about the game.

[Jokka das Trevas]

I dunno, but it seems to me (it ocurred many different times) that when the attacker is on a jungle square, his attack is lousier - no matter what the unit is.

Some units attacking FROM montains also seem to get weaker.

[Monoriu]

You sure those units are not attacking across rivers? Its easy to miss that. Just a guess.

[Jokka das Trevas]

Originally posted by Monoriu
You sure those units are not attacking across rivers? Its easy to miss that. Just a guess.

I thought that too. I cleared all the jungle and there was no river in it

No one ever experienced something like this?

[Zealot]

Well, yeah, yesterday on my game I attacked with a knight a russian city defended with either an archer or spearman. My knight was attacking from a jungle and got his butt kicked! But on my other front (I was attacking the russians with two fronts) my knights were winning almost all battles! So I think we can consider this plausible:

Don't attack from a jungle square!

[Khannalxytys]

Well... I was trying to find out how the terrain bonuses affects units .. and modified the bonus from grasslands to 6... then went to play the game... well .. i used my 2 regular warriors.. to get bonuses from a tribes (since aI didnt spawned anywhere near me.. and i wanted to try fighting over grasslands..).. and spawned 3 barbs all of which spawned at tundra tiles.. my first warrior was standing at a grassland tile.. and the one who went for the tribe(who had only one hp btw) was now standing at tundra.. the first barbarian attacked.. killed him . no problem.. the second attacked.. he managed to kill me .. which is ok .. for i had only one hp.. but the thing is.. next turn .. i used my other warrior to attack ther nearby barbarians.. he was attacking not defending.. and he still got killed by conscript barbarians... something i've never seen before.. a fully healed regular warrior killed by conscript barbarians without doing any damage to them .. perhaps defense bonus has anything to do with attacking too or then again .. perhaps randomness has started to work

[Jokka das Trevas]

Zealot, all the situations wich I became worried of this jungle square possibility were such as this one:


Got 3 swordsman stacked at a jungle square next to city (no city walls in it) and another 2 horseman staked in another square, also next to city and also jungle.

His defense was 2 veteran spearman.

I attacked with the first swordsman, it defended as if it were a 1-hp warrior.
"Bad luck" I thought.
Next swordsman attacks, get his but kicked too but could take 1 hp from the defender, who gets veteran and earns that hp back.
Attack with the last swordsman and he gets his arse kicked again down to 1 hp, but manages to kill.
Before attacking with the horses, I moved the to a grassland square by there, and then attacked. The first horseman took the defender out losing only one hp.

Then you remember that the horseman is 2.1 and the swordsman is 3.2, and begin to wonder what the hell is wrong here...

When you attack from a montain it seems a little weaker too...

---

In the other news...
Dammit, why the hell spies can't sabotage city improvements anymore?

[Gaius Marius]

With the exception of rivers, the square you are attacking from has no effect on combat resolution. There is no mention of this in the manual, civilopedia, strategy guide, or any of the Firaxis-produced info. I recommend doing a rigorous test if you aren't convinced.

[Jokka das Trevas]

Well, I guess I'll make it my personal superstition, then.

Just started the game again as the indians, and was warrior-rushing the French who made the obvious mistake of starting near me (also, I can't respect a civ who dresses pink ).

Same ol' thing. And it really doesn't seem to be a coded effect on the game: it just happens :P

[Khannalxytys]

also, I can't respect a civ who dresses pink

LOL
u can change civ colour with the civ edit I like the french .. but also can't dig pink... generally i use blue with french ... and orange for germany ..