Monarchy vs. Republic

Morganstern · November 13, 2001, 14:29

I know, for the most part this topic would seem a no-brainer. My last experience with Republic, however, was quite disappointing. Playing US on Monarchy level, with three neighboring civs chomping at the bit to downsize me and my slight Histograph lead, I decided the only way I could keep up unit production was to hopefully get a production or gold bonus from going to Republic. I was a couple units above my Monarchy max anyway, and thus paying for them.

Nothing of the sort happened. My gross income and expenses rose, but my net take, research capacity, and productivity doesn't appear to have improved at all. I'm used to the CIV 2 model where you get a substantial benefit. Worse, I was out six turns in Anarchy I could have used to keep up with unit production, had to increase entertainment to 20%, and was hit more frequently with civil disorder. That pattern continued until the BIG ONE, war weariness, hit with a vengeance, and virtually my entire territory shut down for a turn, and my civ of course emerges the worse for wear.

In this scenario, I see little reason to go to Republic; better to wait for Democracy, which is now just a few discoveries away. BTW, I had several marketplaces, cathedrals, colosseums, etc., and temples in most cities of 4+ size. Is there anything else I can do in this more warlike scenario, or is this really going to be the pattern in CIV 3?

Yohan · November 13, 2001, 15:21

Do you have roads all over the place? I think that's where the real bonus of the jump from Monarchy to Republic kicks in. AFAIK, Republic gives bonus income for each square with a road on top of that given by Monarcy. If you don't have enough roads you won't see much benefit from that switch.

And don't go to Democracy unless you're a religious civ that can switch governments in 1 turn. War weariness is insane with Democracy. You can't wage war for more than a handful of turns at a time before your civ goes up in riotous flames. Republic is a good compromise, IMO.

Morganstern · November 13, 2001, 16:56

Actually, I've built a bunch of roads. Most every square near any city of any size has 'em. Your comment brings up the thought that I don't have much in the way of luxuries, and that may affect the changeover. I'm pretty good on resources, and have roads going to all resources and luxuries I do have. I'm not sure what's missing here.

Monoriu · November 13, 2001, 21:00

I just ignore Monarchy. Saves you a lot of research time and one more anarchy period. Just go straight for republic. Or the other way round if you like to keep a large army and fight wars. The key is to choose one path, stick with it and ignore the other path.

I agree republic isn't that great, but its still slightly better than Monarchy once you have developed your economy fully with roads, city improvements, and luxuries. Unless you have a ton of units.

Enigma · November 13, 2001, 21:09

I usually like waging war in the midgame before enemies get riflemen in the industrial age, so I run Monarchy. My experience leads me to believe that the unit support differences make up for any slight lack of cash due to corruption...

I am clearly not a fan of republic =]

Democracy is great though, just as long as you are not fighting. I do not like the "ok at waging war" aspect of Republic, when I fight a war it is a *total* war, I never fight a war half way. If I get in a serious conflict I will delay the fighting until I can send overwhelming numbers to the enemy... the extra cash you get during this time period with monarchy makes up for that.

Monarchy is overall flexible, and does a good enough job for me (I am getting 1 tech/4 years on Monarch in the middle of the Medievel era while having my army stomp on the Babylonians- Go Immortals!)

conquistadore · November 13, 2001, 21:38

The reason why i never switch to republic in the medieval age is because my unit support cost will drain my treasury as i keep TONS of units...(i'm a fan of martial law)..

Mornachy is the way to go if you want to wage war..but in the industrial-modern age, i always switch to democracy, which i feel is the best in the game. Save for the war wariness, its simply the BEST!

...in terms of commerce, worker efficiency etc..

Any one fancy communism in the modern age though? corruption sucks big-time......

Zurai001 · November 13, 2001, 23:09

I use republic early on, *as long as i have at least 2 luxuries*. Without those extra happy people, the lack of military police forces me to invest 20% to entertainment, pretty much negating the biggest advantage Republic has (extra trade).

MaSsConFUsi0n · November 14, 2001, 04:07

i'm usually very peaceful, just building in my little corner and giving luxuries away to the other civs.... so i stay in republic and democracy for as long as i can. my militay is so little that invasion is something that i have to watch for... but.... in case some stupid civ finally gets on my last nerve, i turn communist. i think that it's the best war government in the modern era. all the martial law is great. i just stomp those stupid citizens of mine who don't like my government...

and then i raze all the other cities and move their workers to my towns, my relocation plan.

MaSsConFUsi0n

Morganstern · November 14, 2001, 09:56

The comments above confirm my suspicions about Republic. In my current game, I don't have much choice but to wage war - Russia will let about five turns go by before stirring something up. I reset and didn't go Republic this time, and it worked a lot better, if for no other reason than not having to suffer the six-turn downtime. I have a lot of units, although I'm not the strongest (see Aztecs) and the costs and entertainment issues in Republic were really hurting me. I'll chalk it up to learning the game.

apocalyptica · November 14, 2001, 10:15

I think that the type of government you are will rely on your civ. For instance, in my current game, I am the Russians, and Republic has been working very well for me. Why? Their naturally expansionist and scientific nature lends itself well to a Republic, which allows you to rapidly build settlers and workers, and very good scientific research. I am the most advanced civ in the world, and I also have the largest population. Early in the game, I took over a couple of cities of my only adjacent neighbor, the Aztecs, and have kept them at bay since while staying within the unit limits, allowing me to concentrate on building improvements in my cities. Because of this, my culture is absurdly dominant.

As someone else stated, choose one strategy, and stick to it.

ChrisShaffer · November 14, 2001, 10:52

Republic and democracy are peacetime governments. If you're going to war, you should use monarchy or communism. Republic is a great early/mid-game peace government if you plan for it - get some luxuries, enough happiness buildings, etc. To successfully wage war as a republic, you need police stations and/or universal suffrage.

It depends on your play style. Lots of people have had great success beelining to republic and raking in the cash.

Sentinali · November 14, 2001, 16:16

If you are an achient era azz kicker (ie; if you play persia and like crowded maps) go straight for Monarchy after Iron Working, the unit bonus will make up for the lack of commerce. On the other side of the coin if you like to make peace first and get a tech lead, go for the Republic straight off.

Comrade Tribune · November 14, 2001, 21:08

Hmmm; in my experience, Monarchy is under-powered.

Assuming you have lots of roads, and some luxury resources to keep people happy, the increased income from Republic will more than make up for having to pay for your units, even if you wage war often.

player1 · November 15, 2001, 04:14

Since most of AI players don't aim for Monarchy, I chase it at start, get a Harding Gardens & revolution, buy all other techs and go in Republic after someone else discovers it (& I am not in war).

Just hint:
Never go to anarchy if there is chace for getting a goldern age soon.

GavfromNZ · November 15, 2001, 06:35

Ok guys. Just one thought. Im on my first game, we have just hit the modern era, I`m the Americans, and we is getting our butts handed to us, not in war terms, but definitly in land area and scientifically. Why are all the AI`s in democracy? Every Single One.
Even the chinese :P. Why is this?

By the way great game, been playing since civ 1, onto civ 2, bypassed ctp, and got smac. This is the best!

conquistadore · November 15, 2001, 22:09

Well, it seems that in the modern era, the AI will either be using democracy, if they are in peace-time, or communism, in war time. But the answer is rather obvious, isnt it?

But i'm glad that the AI is much improved in civ3.

jack_frost · November 16, 2001, 01:42

monarchy and communism seem pretty worthless.

Cash flow shouldn't be a problem if your trading in tech. Especially at higher levels (monarch/emp - haven't touched diety) where all the other civs actually have money to buy.

Since paying the (really tiny) costs for upkeep shouldn't be a problem, the small monarchy bonus isn't worth while. Martial law is not really as useful in this game since luxuries are easy to get in mass (again, with aggressive diplomacy).

I usually have more luxuries then I need and keep my cities in perpetual I love the king day for reduced corruption - which means - when I go to war it dosn't hurt in terms of happyness.

The real trick is realizing that in actuality, the increased commerce of republic is still better for war then monarchy (and not to mention less wasted shields due to corruption is huge). You can pay for the units you need, you can still research tech fast, AND you don't have to waste production time on units your just using to keep your cities from revolting.

Once you come to the inevitable conclusion that republic is better then monarchy EVEN AT WAR. You really can't justify ever using anything other then republic/democracy.

Jason · November 16, 2001, 15:45

Quite. The thing is, I've waged aggressive wars to clear a whole continent (well, one civ off it) and stayed Republic the whole time. What's more, when I wasn't rush-building too many units, I could keep my tax rate at 100% science and still make money (I sell tech for per turn wealth from all other peaceable civs).

This is on regent. War weariness just wasn't too much of a problem. That's the only reason I hesitate to switch to communism. I mean, if I can wage war AND still research at a high level, why not? And rushing units with cash is a lot less painful than with population, at least in home cities.

vmxa1 · November 16, 2001, 19:43

I suspect that it is not a case of Monarch is bad and republic is good. It is more a function of the civ you play. I just finished as Egyptians and they prefer Monarch and do not like republic. I tried to switch rep or dem (forgot which) and I ended up with more unhappy citizens and lower production. I reloaded and did not switch. I got this straight from the rules with Civedit. I did not try other forms as I was winning anyway.

jack_frost · November 16, 2001, 19:45

the biggest problem I've had with communism is the dispersed corruption. It seems similar to the republic corrption waste rate, only instead of it being focused in a few frontier cities the waste is spread everywhere.

Although communism is probably similar in effiency to republic, you could just switch to democracy many techs earlier. The reduced corruption and worker speed just makes communism sort of pointless.

jack_frost · November 16, 2001, 19:48

i think the preferred gov type is just for the AI. IE: an AI controlled civ is more likely to switch to their preferred type.

If it affected happy points and stuff then the prefferred gov would be listed in the civlopedia entry for that civ if nothing else.

Kriton · November 16, 2001, 20:28

Monarchy is good when:
-you are playing at a tougher level
-your cities are size 7 & up
-you are in a prolonged war
-you are not a religious civ

When you are playing Emp/Deity, you have unhappy citizens. If you are not religious, temples/cathedrals are expensive. Monarchy makes 3 content using martial law. Each city suports 4 units. Corruption isn't that much worse than republic. And no war weariness. What you lose in commerce/tech, you gain in power and the ability to bend the will of your opponents.