MOD: Ancients Civ3 Gov/Balance Mod

[ancient]

i dont believe i updated the first post enough for all the changes i had made i will fix it..

to answer your question
Rome now favors Fasism, and shuns Communism
Egypt favors Monarchy and Shuns Republic
Greece Favors Democracy and shuns fundamentlism
Babylon favors Fundamentalism and Shuns Communism
Germany favors Democratic Socialism and shuns monarchy
Russia Favors Communism and Shuns Fascism
China gfavors communism and shuns monarchy
America favors Democracy and shuns Communism
Japan Favors Fascism and Shuns Republic
France Favors Democratic Socialism and Shuns Despotism
India favors Democracy and shuns fascism
Persia favors Fundamentalism and Shuns Democratic Socialism
Aztecs favor fundamentalism and shun Communism
Zulu favor Fascism and Shun Democracy
Iroqois Favor Democratic Socialism and shun fascism
England favor Constitutional Monarchy and shuns Fascism

and again i accidently didnt update part of the read me, and first page

[Sytass]

Great work, ancient. I admit not having installed your patch so far, but it looks very good to me. I am modding the game myself, although I intend to only add a few more governments. And actually, Constitutional Monarchy and Socialist Democracies sound rather good to me, and if you don't mind I will use them for myself, putting CM stat-wise between Democracy and Monarchy, and SD somewhere between Democracy and Communism.

Making CM available with Education sounds fine to me. However, I think Gunpowder would make a similarly good prerequisite. After all, the aristocracy's demise began when commoners armed with muskets were able to pick off well trained and noble knights during battle. A development that led to Japan outlawing fire weapons, as the warrior aristocrats saw their status attacked. On the other hand, this makes the Gunpowder advance even more powerful than it already is. If it were easier to add new techs, CM should be researchable after getting Gunpowder and Education, methinks. Ah, well, can't have it all.

Never mind, I was just thinking aloud. I mean a-typing.

[Desert Dog]

Hey anyone else having wierd things happening with the 1.35 uop? I am playing on a 230x230 world, had 8 civs (killed off one). I changed how large the hugh world could be, put AI at Warlord level. I can build Destroyers, Battleships, Carrier's Bombers, Planes etc. I can not build a railroad did I skip over it? I even have the space program started now studying computers.
I have a protection pack with the French next door to me. The Germans and the English have been at war for 1000 years. They keep pulling everyone into their war accept me. The Greeks attacks the French, I honor my protection pack. These guys do not have anything better than a Longbow or Swordman. The Germans sign an alliance against me with the Greeks. I call on everyone else to sign an alliance with me against Greece and Germany. All at once everyone is making war against France. (sorry for long winded msg)
I get smiles from everyone as they attack my ally. I have no way to respond in diplomatic ways to stop it. I do hope this is a bug that will be fixed in the REAL patch.
I have a battleship up against a carvel. My battleship was almost destroyed by one carvel? What kind of balance is this?) I had another issue where my privateer was attacked by another civ while I am at peace. Once I could I checked the diplomatic screen and no problems. It was not a barbarian either clearly had the Zululand color.
Am I the only one experiencing these wierd bugs? If not why isn't there a bug thread? Hey I am not complaining just want to make sure it is not the mod etc. Thanks!

Desert Dog

[ancient]

umm a caravel sunk your battleship?

whats the odds of that happening?

well if you were attaking and the were both on the same level it would'nt be to likely, nor would ity be when your attacking,
pretty much what you said makes no sense.


i think you should update to the newest one


Sytas, i think you should wait untill we get an official patch before doing any modding

which is why im going to wait for them to rellease one before i do the next version.

[ancient]

Originally posted by Desert Dog
Hey anyone else having wierd things happening with the 1.35 uop? I am playing on a 230x230 world, had 8 civs (killed off one). I changed how large the hugh world could be, put AI at Warlord level. I can build Destroyers, Battleships, Carrier's Bombers, Planes etc. I can not build a railroad did I skip over it? I even have the space program started now studying computers.
I have a protection pack with the French next door to me. The Germans and the English have been at war for 1000 years. They keep pulling everyone into their war accept me. The Greeks attacks the French, I honor my protection pack. These guys do not have anything better than a Longbow or Swordman. The Germans sign an alliance against me with the Greeks. I call on everyone else to sign an alliance with me against Greece and Germany. All at once everyone is making war against France. (sorry for long winded msg)
I get smiles from everyone as they attack my ally. I have no way to respond in diplomatic ways to stop it. I do hope this is a bug that will be fixed in the REAL patch.
I have a battleship up against a carvel. My battleship was almost destroyed by one carvel? What kind of balance is this?) I had another issue where my privateer was attacked by another civ while I am at peace. Once I could I checked the diplomatic screen and no problems. It was not a barbarian either clearly had the Zululand color.
Am I the only one experiencing these wierd bugs? If not why isn't there a bug thread? Hey I am not complaining just want to make sure it is not the mod etc. Thanks!

Desert Dog

I just read your post again, those arent bugs


The privateer is suposed to be allowed to be attacked by anyone you can also attack anyone

other peoples oppinion of you isnt effected by your allys unless you have a mutual protection pack because there arent any allys

if the caravel was a higher rank and you were attacking it it could almost beat you but you should be able to beat it most of the time.
ok answer your questions?

i just had an idea, but i think its a little too risky for this mod

im not gonna say it because i think its a good idea..

im gonna make another mod, just for warefare.

[Desert Dog]

Okay I will admit that I did not read up on the Privateer. It makes no sense why there should be a unit like this for any purpose other than to depict the Pirate ships of old.
Have you ever played the "real" civ 2 sequel? (in my opinion anyways) Alpha Centauri or better yet Alien Crossfire is what I am talking about. The combat, the diplomacy should have been looked at to make civ 3 a TRUE sequel. In SMAC I have an option in diplomacy screen to ask another civ to stop the war with your friend. I asked this question to see if anyone else is looking at the things I am.
By the way, why are you calling this a patch? I appreicate your efforts at making a mod. We will always need mods, but this is not even close to a patch, no offense! What your mod does is not clear at all to me yet. I mean the game is still horribly un balanced even with your mod.
By the way, I am not a new person playing I know how a battle should go I am not a kid! My battleship was a Vet. fighter, the carvel was at the most a regular. It attacked me and I had just a little red left. That is the big gripe with civ 3 is the totally unbalanced combat.
One last comment Civ 3 is a far cry from a TRUE sequel to civ 2. It should have been called Call To Power 3. It has more of that game then civ 2. I am REALLY hoping that old Sid see's what he did wrong and corrects it, but I doubt it! Everyone rating this game super high has not tried to play a full game. It is riddled with TRUE BUGS like the ones I spoke of. Diplomacy the way it is totally sucks.
Hey I know your going to get an attitude, you really should just call this a mod. You would have to be a programmer to make a patch I just think it is funny you are trying to call this a patch. Now I will be starting a new game after I remove your mod. Thanks for your comments but they really did not address what my concerns are. If your mod is not broke it does not address any of the real problems with this game. Reality is not going to be found in a computer game, but if they changed a few things it would be more logical and realistic then it is now!
I am crossing my fingers that the "REAL" patch will correct the short comings. If not I will most likely shelf this game and dream of the good old days of playing civ 2. It is the best game of all time, next SMAC! Peace again no offense!

Desert Dog

[bigvic]

Originally posted by Desert Dog
Okay I will admit that I did not read up on the Privateer. It makes no sense why there should be a unit like this for any purpose other than to depict the Pirate ships of old.
Have you ever played the "real" civ 2 sequel? (in my opinion anyways) Alpha Centauri or better yet Alien Crossfire is what I am talking about. The combat, the diplomacy should have been looked at to make civ 3 a TRUE sequel. In SMAC I have an option in diplomacy screen to ask another civ to stop the war with your friend. I asked this question to see if anyone else is looking at the things I am.
By the way, why are you calling this a patch? I appreicate your efforts at making a mod. We will always need mods, but this is not even close to a patch, no offense! What your mod does is not clear at all to me yet. I mean the game is still horribly un balanced even with your mod.
By the way, I am not a new person playing I know how a battle should go I am not a kid! My battleship was a Vet. fighter, the carvel was at the most a regular. It attacked me and I had just a little red left. That is the big gripe with civ 3 is the totally unbalanced combat.
One last comment Civ 3 is a far cry from a TRUE sequel to civ 2. It should have been called Call To Power 3. It has more of that game then civ 2. I am REALLY hoping that old Sid see's what he did wrong and corrects it, but I doubt it! Everyone rating this game super high has not tried to play a full game. It is riddled with TRUE BUGS like the ones I spoke of. Diplomacy the way it is totally sucks.
Hey I know your going to get an attitude, you really should just call this a mod. You would have to be a programmer to make a patch I just think it is funny you are trying to call this a patch. Now I will be starting a new game after I remove your mod. Thanks for your comments but they really did not address what my concerns are. If your mod is not broke it does not address any of the real problems with this game. Reality is not going to be found in a computer game, but if they changed a few things it would be more logical and realistic then it is now!
I am crossing my fingers that the "REAL" patch will correct the short comings. If not I will most likely shelf this game and dream of the good old days of playing civ 2. It is the best game of all time, next SMAC! Peace again no offense!

Desert Dog

Hey desert dog, I agree with you about a lot of aspects of the game as put out by Firaxis. I love it, but hope some official patches are forthcoming on a number of areas. I agree, the game could have been better. It would be nice to see a combination of all the best of these god games in one, the combat system of CTP2, the diplomacy of SMAC, etc, etc...
But chill on ancient. He's not making $ for this, you know! Personally, I enjoy the changes (almost all of them) and, yes it is more a "mod" than a patch. I understand your ire at Firaxis for not putting out as good a product as they could have (though still a darned good one), but if you don't like the ancient patch, don't complain, just don't use it.

[sianews]

Its hardly the mods fault, the game is simply ****ed up. Thats what is producing the wierd combat results. In any case, I've been using his mod since 1.25 and it does add postive improvements to the game. Now if only Firaxis would get that patch out...

[ancient]

Originally posted by Desert Dog
Okay I will admit that I did not read up on the Privateer. It makes no sense why there should be a unit like this for any purpose other than to depict the Pirate ships of old.
Have you ever played the "real" civ 2 sequel? (in my opinion anyways) Alpha Centauri or better yet Alien Crossfire is what I am talking about. The combat, the diplomacy should have been looked at to make civ 3 a TRUE sequel. In SMAC I have an option in diplomacy screen to ask another civ to stop the war with your friend. I asked this question to see if anyone else is looking at the things I am.
By the way, why are you calling this a patch? I appreicate your efforts at making a mod. We will always need mods, but this is not even close to a patch, no offense! What your mod does is not clear at all to me yet. I mean the game is still horribly un balanced even with your mod.
By the way, I am not a new person playing I know how a battle should go I am not a kid! My battleship was a Vet. fighter, the carvel was at the most a regular. It attacked me and I had just a little red left. That is the big gripe with civ 3 is the totally unbalanced combat.
One last comment Civ 3 is a far cry from a TRUE sequel to civ 2. It should have been called Call To Power 3. It has more of that game then civ 2. I am REALLY hoping that old Sid see's what he did wrong and corrects it, but I doubt it! Everyone rating this game super high has not tried to play a full game. It is riddled with TRUE BUGS like the ones I spoke of. Diplomacy the way it is totally sucks.
Hey I know your going to get an attitude, you really should just call this a mod. You would have to be a programmer to make a patch I just think it is funny you are trying to call this a patch. Now I will be starting a new game after I remove your mod. Thanks for your comments but they really did not address what my concerns are. If your mod is not broke it does not address any of the real problems with this game. Reality is not going to be found in a computer game, but if they changed a few things it would be more logical and realistic then it is now!
I am crossing my fingers that the "REAL" patch will correct the short comings. If not I will most likely shelf this game and dream of the good old days of playing civ 2. It is the best game of all time, next SMAC! Peace again no offense!

Desert Dog

I only called it a patch because i was fixing Stuff that made combat wrong i also was trying to think of a name and it was the first thing that came to me.
your right its not a patch, it is a rule mod, i am trying to get the name changed. mostly because its misleading.

i will now remove all of the word patch.

oh yeah and if my mods no good why would the game be? i truly think i made it better.

[Desert Dog]

Hey I did not mean to say your mod rule change was not good, I just don't think it really fixed that many things. I want this game to be working perfectly. There are so many issues with this game I will be surprised if they are all corrected.
I was annoyed by your comments slightly sorry if you took it that I was slamming your efforts. No we need you and many more making mods etc. I plan to make a few myself once the game is patched properly. The name makes no difference man, I was just razing you a little. Your mod seems to be the most stable most of the other ones either crash right away or hard to figure out how where everything goes.
I really hope when the patch is released they fix everything that is broken. Still very sad that they did not take SMAC combat and diplomacy model and incorporate it into Civ 3. I am a civ2 (or was?!) addict playing almost everyday. I get very disappointed when what I expect in civ 3 is not there. I am babbling, PLEASE keep up your efforts. Later.......

Desert Dog

[bigvic]

Hi ancient. I'm playing w/ 1.8 and so far its going good. I would like to know what the reasoniong behind powering up the chariot was. I'm having great fun rampaging with Japanese chariots toward early conquests, but I feel a bit guilty. I don't think the AI understands how to use them correctly. I guess the rationale is the fact that they can't be upgraded, but making them faster than horsemen & knights is a bit too much. Is the Egyptian war chariot toughened up? Perhaps this would be good for them. You sure the impi needs upgrading? Does this infringe on the Aztecs? Beware too much upgunning, Also, I don't think allowing cavalry to upgrade to tanks, as much as it sounds like fun, is not such a great idea. It paradoxically hurts the Germans (can't upgrade to special unit - panzer) and Russians (can't upgrade from special unit - cossack) and, besides, historically, cavalry was one of those branches that actuall did linger around long after it was really effective. Perhaps if you could figure out some way to allow such upgrades or allow civs to build standard units... I've read somewhere else where someone has, or was going to do just such a thing. Hey, don't get me wrong, I appreciate all you've done, great work. I do think, however, that you went a little too far in the abovementioned areas.

[ancient]

see thats the thing with calvalry, on one hand they can either stick around even though there useless or on the other hand you can have them upgrade to tanks, wich were there eventual replacement but it is not realistic to have calvalry become tanks, so i just chose what i thought was best.

[ancient]

Also about the chariots, i am going to increase there price to three, to make up for there aditional boost.

plus having two horses with a light wheeled vehicle makes them fast, and the cant travel on mountain tiles or jungle tiles, so i think its balanced.

[Desert Dog]

Hey why is it that if I try to make a map to play on, with my civ with only a name change, I get a crash every time. I like HUGH maps. I am real confused because I have been making maps and playing them for 2 weeks. Now since I installed 1.8 mod, I can not make maps to play on. In fact I can't make maps with any of the mods even after re-installing the game? Any ideas? I am pissed as hell! 2 days of solid crashing and no game play makes a very upset Desert Dog

Desert Dog

[ancient]

i am playing on a huge map and it hasnt crashed yet desertdog

can you tell me anything specifically youve done to make it crash?

do you have windows xp?

[Desert Dog]

Okay you will see just how much of a lamer I am now !
I like to edit the Americans, I change them to from Industrious to Scienitific (spelling) + expansionists. I give them 2 extra tech, change the name of leader, adjust AI to Warlord, Adjust world map settings to 32 spaces between, 10 civs, 50 rioting factor (or whatever you call it) I like the 200+ size maps. I generate a map, and load it as a scenario. It crashes when my first settler appears, general fault. It makes me reboot my system to clear it up. I am running Win 98 right now. Switching to Win 2000 Professional sometime this weekend. XP has many issues with hardware right now. NOT a good idea for anyone to be upgrading to it right away. I am a OEM system builder and we discourage people from upgrading right now. Many of our customers who have now have many programs that will not run correctly. Yet another Microsoft screw up or a way for them to make more money. Time will tell!
I have a high end computer system. I just installed my new OS a few months ago. I take it I am the only person with crashing going on? I tried one game without changing anything or making a map, it worked for a few turns anyways without crashing. I suspect it has something to do with the same reason why we cannot make scenarios, it is still borken.
I really liked the changes you made in 1.8 accept the reverse Culture thing. It seems like it would really work against you later in the game. Loose cities and status because of the minus culture items you added. Of course I am not just saying my thoughts I have not played the game! Keep the mods coming!

Desert Dog

[ancient]

so did your prolem fix itself?

if it ddnt try not making your changes or downloading the mod then see if it works.

and make sure you delete every thing then install it again.

[Desert Dog]

Originally posted by ancient
so did your prolem fix itself?

if it ddnt try not making your changes or downloading the mod then see if it works.

and make sure you delete every thing then install it again.

I have reinstalled civ3 and redownloaded your mod several times. I have no clue why it happens. Most of the time it is only when I mess with the world sizes. I find that many of the mods will crash with the 230x230 maps. Thanks for your help but your kind of telling me basic things that anyone would do that knows what they are doing. I just suck at playing civ games though love to play!
Hey again dude I was not running your mod down. It seems some have thought I was being a jerk. Sorry I did not mean to come across that way at all. I really appreciate yoour efforts and everyone elses. I think the game is broke plain and simple. Get a decent patch to cover the issues and we will have a good time yet! Thanks!

Desert Dog

[ancient]

so you think the fact that i made the map bigger makes it crash, because my game just crashed, but it will only crash when i try to build a city on a desert patch in between a river and irrigation.

[Desert Dog]

Originally posted by ancient
so you think the fact that i made the map bigger makes it crash, because my game just crashed, but it will only crash when i try to build a city on a desert patch in between a river and irrigation.

It seems that whenever you have a map larger than the standard 180x180 and you try to find a city on the northern part of map it will crash. I have discovered this by accident. I can make it happen all the time by having land near the poles (maybe southern too!) if you try to build a city near the edge of the world crash city. At least that has been my experience. Nothing probably wrong with your MOD. I am waiting on the official patch before trying any other mods. Hopefully you will not have to change much. By the way, you have seem to have the best ideals for making the balance between units better. I am trying something this morning to see if it again repeats the crash scenario. Hey dude again, I did not mean to come across like a jerk, I am on medication and sometimes I do not realize how I am wording things. Not that I am trying to make an excuse just a reason. Bad health sucks but me coming across wrong sucks even worse! Later!

Desert Dog

[Desert Dog]

Originally posted by bigvic


Hey desert dog, I agree with you about a lot of aspects of the game as put out by Firaxis. I love it, but hope some official patches are forthcoming on a number of areas. I agree, the game could have been better. It would be nice to see a combination of all the best of these god games in one, the combat system of CTP2, the diplomacy of SMAC, etc, etc...
But chill on ancient. He's not making $ for this, you know! Personally, I enjoy the changes (almost all of them) and, yes it is more a "mod" than a patch. I understand your ire at Firaxis for not putting out as good a product as they could have (though still a darned good one), but if you don't like the ancient patch, don't complain, just don't use it.

Hey Bigvic I am not riding Ancient about his mod. I am a disgruntled Civ 2 addict. CTP2 was nothing more than a rip off of civ 2 and a VERY POOR rip-off I might add. The combat was not good, SMAC had the good combat I really thought they would take all the good points of civ 2 and SMAC for the sequel. The truth however is that this game ONLY has Sid's name and Civ name franchise. The programmers who did this were none other than the CTP2 boys. I thought something was fishy! THey should have consulted with Brian Reynolds and Tim Train. It almost looks like Sid never even looked at the game. Look everyone who is taking me messages wrong. I am upset how the sequel has turned out plain and simple. Even Extended Play said that this is a game ONLY with Sid's name not the same as the series.
Aside from it being a bad sequel it has the potential of being a good game if you don't compare it to civ 2. Tough with the name being civ 3 though! What gets me is that even some of the GOOD things from ctp2 were left out as well as the good things from civ 2. OKAY? I will stop now I wanted to make it clear where I am coming from. Clearly MOST everyone on here liked ctp2. Seems that all the suggestions have come from ctp2 fans. I will go cry now that I waited all this time for a TRUE sequel and to be disappointed! No patch will ever make this a true sequel. It is another turn based game based on civ 2. Peace!

Desert Dog

[bigvic]

Hey Desert Dog. I agree w/ you for the most part. I have mixed views of civ III. On the one hand, I find myself spending way too much time playing it. On the other hand, I am also dissapointed in many aspects. BTW, you did'nt like the combat system of the ctp's? I thought that was a strong point. I played ctpI before the Sid Meirs civs, so the kill one, kill 'em all aspect of the latter really drove me nuts. Overall, I'd like to see a more sane way of doing alliances in civ III. Have you played w/ all 16 civs? It always reaches this point where ally #1 is pounding ally #2, whose fighting foe #1, the enemy of ally#1's ally, who is... um... I think... um ...where was I? AnywayI can't think of hardly any historical parallels, so it bothers me. I do miss the feats of wonder from ctpII, though I think that the small wonders (wouldn't "minor" been better - I can't help thinking of that awful little robot girl show some years ago). Also, expansionist civs stink. Maybe some kind of distance from capital corruption relief (which is too draconic anyway) would be nice. Anyway, got to go. Lets hope for improvements in future editions. I agree, civ II does smack of ctp'esque shoddy rush jobbiness.

[bigvic]

Jeez, I'm posting a lot. Anyway, ancient: I don't know what you're capable of, but what about a little help for those anemic expansionist civs. In the big 16 civ monstrosities I like to play I've noticed they tend to fall behind and get eaten up w/ depressing frequency. What follows are a few ideas for expansionist civs. I don't know how each would affect things, but...

1. settlers take only one pop to build
2. less distance from capital corruption, or cheaper courthouses
3. start w/ extra settler, and/or scout, worker, warrior
4. settlers have 2 movement
5. expansionist civs less likely to lose city to culture/more likely to gain city fromculture
6. nationality changes faster in conquered cities

I don't know how many would be right, probably one or two.

[ancient]

Im thinking about just making scouts move more..

[ancient]

quietly releasing 1.81

[bigvic]

still think something more is needed.

[ancient]

haw about a unique expansionist only unit, to replace scout
Conqueror
With stats 4/2/2
cost 80 shields and can clear jungles and forest?

[ancient]

need to restore my mod to a respected level

mr. korn releases an upgrade and gets a full news itrem, i do the same and he wont even put it up, or do a simple request..

[Tomsawyer]

Plutark, great mod bro. I have added one major wonder in the modern era, am testing it out now: Mars Colony....... before we step out to the stars we will learn to crawl around within our own home system. Let me test out a bit more, its complex and I want to ensure it does not crash your mod or the game. If it works and the computer can pick up on it I will post the full details.

[bigvic]

Originally posted by ancient
haw about a unique expansionist only unit, to replace scout
Conqueror
With stats 4/2/2
cost 80 shields and can clear jungles and forest?

Restore your mod to a respected level? You are doing a great job. Anyway, I really think expansionist civs need something to make far flung empires more viable. Less corruption for distance from capital is the best solution. It would last the whole game, like kickbutt workers for industrious civs, cheap military improvements and easy morale upgrades for militaristic civs, cheap religious improvements and easy government changes for religious civs, and cheap econimic improvements and increased big city commerce for commercial civs. But expansionist civs? Am I missing something here? An extra scout?
I mean, think about the four expansionist civs of the game. The Brits with their far flung maritme empire, the Americans and Russians expanding from different directions across their vast respective continental landmasses, the Zulus, well, who knows what they would have done, given the opportunity? All were able to more effectively administer these empires, extending effective government to the distant corners of their civilizations. Yeah, less distance based corruption, or, perhaps the ability to build a second Forbidden Palace seems to be the best answer to me.
Keep up the good work.