Anyone up for creating a cool scenario co-design? - Page 2

November 27, 2000, 01:16

OK, here's the email from AroSch, I cut out some miscellaneous stuff...

quote:

Hi Andz, ...
I just read your post at Apolyton...

I'm "AroSch" at Apolyton...

yeah, yeah... I like it to cut unimportant stuff

quote:

Now to your project:
What do you consider a "co-design", exactly?

- Co-Design, does that mean the work separation between 2 or more designers? Perhaps one is responsible for the graphics (e.g. me), one for the tech-tree, one for he map etc... - of course evrything has to be "discussed"

- But should you think of a Co-Design as such, that many other ideas are implemented in your project, I can highly recommend you to have a look at www.civII.de under "Neuzeit-Einheiten" ("Modern Units"), by me - AroSch

. There you should find suitable units for the scenario.

And there are some questions I have concerning the scenario:
- do you want to make bigger changes in the rules or are you going to work with the standard, "slightly changed" (I could hardly translate "beschnitten" with "circumcised"

) tech tree?
- do you actually intend to use new units (perhaps even using the empty slots)
- in other words: is it just going to be a re-design for the GIGA map or an expansion and improvement?

Aome ideas and suggestions:
- I'd find it cool to make the work halfway historically "correct"; so it should be almost impossible to conquer whole Asia and Europe. (Germany Russia, China etc. have never been conquered by the colonial powers - so they shouldn't in the scenario either, perhaps?)
By that the naval supremacy would gain moer importance than it could reach if the player had the possibility to conquer Asia and Europe (first)...
However, the relatively stupid AI (Provost:

)will have problems here...

- Stefan Härtel's proposal is good! (is it?! )
- Are you going to support the AI per events, for example for a more realistic colonization of the Americas? - appears important for me (and also for me)

November 27, 2000, 01:18

I replied to that mail, going to translate the reply later...

(+1

)

November 28, 2000, 14:39

yeah, yeah

KhanMan the eternal playtester...

ok, still in the Brainstorming phase...

any new ideas? I still need volunteers!

ok, if that is all the community has to contribute

I'm going to start the game and set the empires, including tech trees and unit slots and rules and stuff... then I will order those who already posted their availability to draw the units for the slots I used, and in a year or two the scenario is complete

seriously, I don't have too much time these days, so please, any help would be appreciated

KhanMan · November 29, 2000, 04:00

Hey, if you want to complain about my playtesting, at least talk to Kestrel first for permission...

As far as suggestions go, well, my scenario attempts so far have been humble, obscure, and never published...that said, any particular questions, problems, ideas, etc, you want?

"Beta re-re-re-retest! Ex aequali, et spiritus ad infinitum!"
-KhanMan

KhanMan · November 29, 2000, 04:06

Try this on for size: how about a series of random events (or maybe, half random, with some set triggers), that give godl to the main countries, or reinforcements in the new world, when certain conditions are met.

You might even make it a choice, a la Troy, in which you can either get gold for key successes in the new world, or techs, or reinforcements...

Or maybe you might use high cost city improvements to make the search for gold (through trade routes, events, maybe even hunting down the Seven Cities of German Scenario Making Might) a vital part of any victory...say, how about making market places cost 10 gold apiece, per turn? That would force players to trade, quest, expand, whatever you want them to do...

Oh, wait, what is it you want them to do? We need that first

-KhanMan

------------------
Sprecher der ToT
First Minister of Machiavellia
Founder, OTAATFPM
(Off Topic Apolytoners Against The Finnish Power-Mongers)

November 29, 2000, 12:33

can I join your leage against the Finnish mongers?

well, I also thought about the random events for European nations to give them reinforcements in the new world, I was particularly thinking about Conquistador units, that would be created in the new world. but then, how can I make sure that they are set on a square that is already conquered by the Spanish?

I'm surely not going to create that unit in Spain, as they're able to conquer whole Europe with a unit that is supposed to be used in the New World only...

any comments on AroSch's email and/or my re-mail?

KhanMan · November 30, 2000, 05:40

Unless I'm mistakened, you can safely put them in a city the Spanish start with in the new world (you are giving them a city there, or, at least, one they can conquer easily, right?

Let's see...you give starting positions for the units in reinforcements, so you could give a list, say, all the squares within 2 radius of mexico city? Whatever is free would get the unit.

Also, I'm not sure, but do mutliple triggers work with MGE? I mean, would you have to do something like "turn x, civ y get's unit z", or "city a taken by civ b, civ get's unit c",

or could you do something like ToT's "Troy/Ilium" Scenario, which was "if Greeks have a living Menaleus unit, they get a Spartan unit once a turn", or "while Spanish control city "Mexico City/Tenotchitlan", they get a "Conquistador" unit every x turns"? (x maybe random?)

Y'all who know events better know the answer to this? I know it works in ToT...

As for joining OTAATFPM, sure thing! This makes two of us, I think...maybe three

So what about trade? Or will this be more of a conquest scenario?

BTW-I don't think I asked: what section of the world is in this particular giga map? Does it include Asia/Indies/Japan? Maybe Portugese or French Traders vs. Spanish Conquistadors vs. English Colonists vs. ...? Each country having a strength in one area?

Or how would you want it?

-KhanMan
PS. A little late, but mind if I join whatever co-design group you have?

KhanMan · November 30, 2000, 05:48

More:

If this is an MP, or, at least, human-oriented scenario, a house rule against the coquistadors leaving America would work...and the ai won't move them, IMHO, if they are threatened in America (as they would always be)

As for delaying the conquest of Europe, if you want, you could make it harder with a move-factor-zero defensive unit, say, one in Berlin, one in Moscow...I think, however, that it should be at least POSSIBLE to conquer europe.

IMHO, if all non-colonial europe is one civ, including russia and China (is this right?), then even a restricted ai would be difficult to beat, from continental European bases...hsitorical reason why America was important

What about trade? *eg*

-KhanMan

------------------
Sprecher der ToT
First Minister of Machiavellia
Founder, OTAATFPM
(Off Topic Apolytoners Against The Finnish Power-Mongers)

November 30, 2000, 10:56

well, the map conatins the whole world

your ideas make sense, but there's no WHILE command in the EVENTS code

no, I haven't thought about too many aspects of trade yet

KhanMan · December 1, 2000, 05:33

Ah, it must only be in ToT...

Tot has "flags", which record whether a certain condition (such as the Spanish controling the city of Madrid) is true or false, allowing "while..." events.

However, you could use a modified version of this idea, making a series of events that when the spanish capture a certain city or cities, or when the kill a certain unit, they get reinforcements as a reward...say, a series of steps they follow, like in the Rise of Rome Campaign?

Just MHO, though

-KhanMan

December 3, 2000, 16:32

I'm not goingto do this on my own! only a few playtesters isn't enough, I need some constructive help

KhanMan · December 5, 2000, 02:53

Oh, and I'm not good enough for ya?

-KhanMan

------------------
Sprecher der ToT
First Minister of Machiavellia Cybernation
Founder, OTAATFPM
(Off Topic Apolytoners Against The Finnish Power-Mongers)
[This message has been edited by KhanMan (edited December 05, 2000).]

December 10, 2000, 11:51

yes you are, your help so far appears very useful

but only you and AroSch - that's too little. I expected a tad more support... well, that's about it fellas? I don't have too much time these days so I won't be able to start working.

oh come on, there must be someone willing to get into such a cool scenario design

Lazy Jay · December 10, 2000, 12:42

Aiyo,

I'd love to do some work on the scenario. I'm not a good artist, but I'd love to work on the other aspects of the project.

My enthusiasm may give this away, but I've never done this before. I'm just sayin that I'd love to get in on this and do what I can.

grimreap · December 10, 2000, 12:56

I also would be interested, but unfortunately I have a serious lack of skill, knowledge, talent etc.
Sorry.

December 10, 2000, 12:57

sorry, no Lazy people for this project

ok, you're in... I'll see what kind of work you can do...

anyone of the ... more experienced creators, perhaps?

December 10, 2000, 17:51

oh yes, sure! we also need entries for the pedia.txt etc. as I'm not English/American myself I'm not really able to write proper entries for that file, so I can need any help here.

I have to do the major work on the scenario itself before we can think of pedia texts, of course

PurpleWyrm · December 10, 2000, 19:27

Well I'm a resonable unit and terrain artist, and this sounds like fun, so if you want my help count me in

grimreap · December 11, 2000, 01:45

Although I would be unable to actually do any editing, i'd be happy to write descriptions, e.g to put in Civolopedia etc or outlining the scenario perhaps. I don't know if this is any help.

December 29, 2000, 12:35

I think Andz83 hasn't found the time to start the deeper work yet. He told me that he made the most important map changes, set the locations, and thought about the infantry units.

No techs changed yet, no city founded. But the civs are already there, a settler on every future city location

Africa and America are one civ. Northern Africa, however, is going to be in the Euro-Asian Bloc, as Central Europe, Eastern Europe and Asia is

The European Powers should be clear, the Spanish will be superior in a long term. Realistic so far. No detail work done yet.

Some guys are already signed in as wrizters for the PEDIA etc. Would those people be so nice and post their certain jobs, again? ok then
Those who don't have a special job yet (noone is working yet at all, but a job should already be given

) may be patient, there will be enough work.

Andz83 himself is on vacation for spamming in the OT, I'll post for him as long as he is.

Ah, this reminds me of the good old Strategist-posting days

St Leo · December 29, 2000, 16:24

I think borrowing the tech tree, units, and improvements from the Imperial Ambition scenario I am currently playtesting might help you guys get this goliath off the ground.

------------------
St. Leo
http://www.sidgames.com/hosted/ziggurat/
http://www.sidgames.com/forums/

December 29, 2000, 16:37

*tries getting this goliath off the ground*

*fails in doing this*

ok, where is that scenario?

BeBro · December 29, 2000, 17:15

St.Leo, I think borrowing the entire scenario from you would speed up the creation even more...

------------------
Civ2000

St Leo · December 30, 2000, 00:17

Not really, I think these guys are going for realistic and mine gets What-Ify from the getgo.

------------------
St. Leo
http://www.sidgames.com/hosted/ziggurat/
http://www.sidgames.com/forums/

St Leo · December 31, 2000, 20:55

Imperial Ambition

The discussion thread is in the Scenario League forum.

P.S. Don't forget to run the event-generating executable first.

------------------
St. Leo
http://www.sidgames.com/hosted/ziggurat/
http://www.sidgames.com/forums/

Shadowstrike · December 31, 2000, 20:57

quote:

Originally posted by Chaos Warrior on 12-29-2000 11:35 AM
I think Andz83 hasn't found the time to start the deeper work yet. He told me that he made the most important map changes, set the locations, and thought about the infantry units.

Andz83 himself is on vacation for spamming in the OT, I'll post for him as long as he is.

Ah, this reminds me of the good old Strategist-posting days

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

You'll know what I mean if you know what I mean....

[This message has been edited by Shadowstrike (edited December 31, 2000).]

January 1, 2001, 01:09

fellas -

BeBro - cheeky bugger, you!!

January 1, 2001, 09:39

thanx, St Leo, getting the file

Shadowstrike - what do you mean?

Shadowstrike · January 1, 2001, 16:28

quote:

Originally posted by Chaos Warrior on 01-01-2001 08:39 AM
Shadowstrike - what do you mean?

Snog · January 2, 2001, 15:18

Discovery scenarios are my favorite. I am very close to being done with the 2nd version of one that uses a small map, western hemisphere only, 3 native, 4 european, 1 independant (pirates, misc. natives) civs. The only thing left to do is draw some longhouses for the iroquois civ. I have some original units and city graphics you can borrow if you like them.
Small maps have their advantages, but I, too was wondering what a discovery scenario might be like on a huge map.
The main problem with the age of discovery scenario in my opinion is there is one civ that is far too powerful: the neutral alliance. I think it should be broken up into several smaller civs.