New Scenario; Beta-testers?

Exile · December 16, 2000, 05:18

I've created a scenario called, "THE MODERN AGE." It runs from 1483-1740. It's large, w/most player positions having 25+ cities. I've tweaked it some. Not enough. Anyone else want to try it? I can be contacted at Exile1957@aol.com

Thanx,
Exile

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Lost in America
"a freaking mastermind." --Stefu
"or a very good liar." --Stefu

jcarkey · December 16, 2000, 10:06

Sure, I'll give it a whirl. My e-mail is jcarkeys@dogtowndigital.com

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KhanMan · December 17, 2000, 03:02

Sure, I'll try it out.

Do you need more suggestions about tweaks and twists, I take it?

My email is:

khanmaned@hotmail.com

Exile · December 17, 2000, 06:09

Well, Khanman, I tried to send it to you, but it was apparently too big. Within 30 seconds after sending it, I received the mailer-daemon thing telling me the files I attempted to send exceeded the available space somewhere for somebody. If you know of another way to receive this beast of a scenario, feel free to clue me in and I'll gladly try to get you the latest version. Yes, you're correct. I am still tweaking it and testing it myself, playing the different players to see when techs are likely to be gained, who attacks whom, how fast the various processes sort themselves out, etc.

I am apparently something of a perfectionist when it comes to scenario design. If its not just right--I'll keep at it until it is.

(edit) If I were to separate the sound file folder from the rest of it, would that make the entire package significantly smaller? If you think that may be the answer, let me know, I'll try it, and we can see what happens.

Thanx anyway,
Exile

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Lost in America
"a freaking mastermind." --Stefu
"or a very good liar." --Stefu
[This message has been edited by Exile (edited December 17, 2000).]

Stefan Härtel · December 17, 2000, 06:52

Send it over to me, I'll upload it to the net

Stefan Härtel · December 19, 2000, 10:33

http://members.nbci.com/SHaertel/1483test.zip

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St Leo · December 19, 2000, 22:48

Hmm, the timeframe is similar to the scenario I am developing right now.

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St. Leo
http://www.sidgames.com/hosted/ziggurat/
http://www.sidgames.com/forums/

St Leo · December 19, 2000, 22:54

Your URL doesn't work.

Exile · December 20, 2000, 00:09

St. Leo is correct, Stephan. Neither of the links works when I try them. This is not actually a bad thing. Working feverishly over the last 2 days, (for no apparent reason other than pathological compulsion), I have a better version of the scenario. Please contact me and I'll send you the newest version to link to. The generous and knowledgeable Jesus Munoz Fernandez has graciously offered a wealth of criticism which I immediately implemented in the new version. A few (*gasp*) terrain features have been altered. Some cities at start have changed hands, including Calais & the Spanish Netherlands, Nice, Spolatto, and Cartagena. Deserts are now DESERTS and many of the resources have been altered to better reflect commercial realities during the period.

I got fed up w/seeing every unit in the game wander off into deep deserts and plod around ad ifinitum. Elephant units, theoretically consuming tens of thousands of gallons of water EVERY DAY would be constructed, and then promptly traipse off into the vast Sahara or Arabian deserts and apparently just "hang out" for a decade or so. This is not good. I made the desert squares bad. They are now DESERTS. The only thing that could make them worse is if units remaining in a desert square for more than 1 turn suffered damage or were just eliminated. Too bad the game can't do that, or I would have it done. The histories are clear--deserts are, for large armies, death. No food, no water, no shade. Lawrence of Arabia was RENOWNED for his ability to cross a relatively small desert with a coherent military force, and not a very big one, at that. This was in the 20th CENTURY! And the troops he used were about the best that could be had in the entire world for the purpose! Bedouins. (sp?) And he was fighting the Turks!

The sad fact is, however, that with the default Civ2, every unit in the game is led by Lawrence or some similarly-inspired lunatic, who believes that 2 or 3 thousand miles of sun-baked sand is not a problem for a large army to traverse.

From the Office of the Armchair General,
Exile

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Lost in America
"a freaking mastermind." --Stefu
"or a very good liar." --Stefu

KhanMan · December 20, 2000, 04:58

Exile-Sorry about that: my hotmail account is always chopping things up...if you could send me just the scenario, text, and graphics, I would be greatful.

Steffie-Nice try, but it looks like good ole nbcxoom.com gobbled up your link again...

"Oh God, I'm under attack by a horde of Norse cavalry!"
(recent outtake from playtesting "Mutliverse"

-KhanMan

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Sprecher der ToT
First Minister of Machiavellia Cybernation
Founder, OTAATFPM
(Off Topic Apolytoners Against The Finnish Power-Mongers)
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"Is that a scroll in your toga, little boy?"
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Exile · December 23, 2000, 11:18

Ok, it's ready to go out. Anybody want a copy see my email address in the first post in the thread. Khanman a copy is on its way.

Wrestling w/creation,
Exile

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Lost in America
"a freaking mastermind." --Stefu
"or a very good liar." --Stefu
[This message has been edited by Exile (edited December 24, 2000).]

KhanMan · December 28, 2000, 04:00

Okay, I finally beat the storms of North Texas to return to home, hearth, and civ, and I'm loving the beginning of my playtesting session of this scenario.

Exile-Do I have your permission to try to upload a copy to host on my site? It would, of course, be labeled as a work of yours...

Will send my comments via email soon, when they are more codified

. Thanks for the fun

-KhanMan

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Sprecher der ToT
First Minister of Machiavellia Cybernation
Founder, OTAATFPM
(Off Topic Apolytoners Against The Finnish Power-Mongers)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Is that a scroll in your toga, little boy?"
-Socrates, Phaedrus Dialogue, 238e

Exile · December 28, 2000, 11:49

Actually, Khanman, like all perfectionists, I'm not done yet.

Seriously, The version you have is a good one, not a great one. Continued playtesting (by yours truly in the last few days) has led me to make several more tweaks. I am certainly enthusiastic about the idea of putting the thing up on the net for all to enjoy, but please, let me send you the latest version I have.

In the version you have, too often the HRE would begin to build the Voyages wonder (Magellan) and, because they used the War w/the Turks wonder (King Rich), they would often complete it before the actual period maritime powers could. Same w/France, but w/out the War /w Turks wonder. Taking Navigation away from them both at the beginning did the trick, and served other purposes as well. I've also done a few tech tweaks, mainly to place significant techs out of reach for the first 50 turns or so. At any rate, the resultant scenario now maintains a stronger verisimilitude to the period; Allowed to run, the Turks actually DO converge on Vienna and attack it strongly for many turns. The Berbers DO lose Granada, sometimes even by 1492. And I have seen the the Voyages wonder built by that same year as well. My aim in this, of course, is to create a scenario that will, when given its rein, closely duplicate the actual events in history.

I am getting closer w/every day spent tweaking it.

Thanks,
Exile

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Lost in America
"a freaking mastermind." --Stefu
"or a very good liar." --Stefu
[This message has been edited by Exile (edited December 28, 2000).]

St Leo · December 28, 2000, 21:46

BTW, I cannot playtest this since I don't have MGE.

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St. Leo
http://www.sidgames.com/hosted/ziggurat/
http://www.sidgames.com/forums/

Exile · December 30, 2000, 22:16

Too bad, St. Leo, I was hoping for some of your wisdom. Oh, well, suppose I'll have to do without it. BTW, how do I find your Imperial Ambitiion scenario? I followed the link, but wasn't able to locate it on the site.

Salutations,
Exile

St Leo · December 31, 2000, 20:53

Imperial Ambition

The download link was in the linked thread in the Scenario League forum.

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St. Leo
http://www.sidgames.com/hosted/ziggurat/
http://www.sidgames.com/forums/

Exile · January 5, 2001, 20:47

Here is a "BUMP," to announce that "The MODERN AGE" scenario is now available on both the European Civ2 site and the Spanish Civ2 site. Thanks to anyone who offered helpful advice here on Apolyton--you are credited in the scenario's "readme" file (page 2).

Salutations,
Exile

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Lost in America
"a freaking mastermind." --Stefu
"or a very good liar." --Stefu

Exile · January 7, 2001, 16:26

Yet another "BUMP." As of right now, copies of "The MODERN AGE" scenario on the European Civ2 site are completely functional, bug (just 1) fixed. If you have an earlier version, either get rid of it and download the fixed version, or email me and I will tell you how to fix the thing yourself. Email address available in the first post of this thread.

It was one tech. ONE! Dammit!

It works now.

Salutations,
Exile

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Lost in America
"a freaking mastermind." --Stefu
"or a very good liar." --Stefu
[This message has been edited by Exile (edited January 07, 2001).]

KhanMan · January 14, 2001, 05:02

This may be after-the-fact, but did you ever raise the tech paradigm? It might be just me, but I had horrible problems getting science going, and, even then, I was lucky to get one tech every 20 turns, with caravan hordes...

Besides that, it's a neat scenario

Best Wishes,
KhanMan

Exile · January 14, 2001, 06:14

Khanman, I don't know which copy you have, but it is probably obsolete. The final version has a tech paradigm of 4/1. I'm guessing that your version had the 5/1. Additionally, I set the "already-acquired" beakers at start for most nations to a point right on the verge of getting polearms tech. If you'd like a finished copy, go get one. IIRC, the last post I made in this thread has the sites where it is now available. It was quite a wrestling match, but I twisted the thing into the shape I wanted, eventually.

But hey, talk to me. Give me a brief review; what did you like? What didn't you like? Did you have all the techs by 1690? Has anyone besides me played the monster to the 1690 date?

Good to hear from you again, Holidays kept you busy, huh?

Exile

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Lost in America
"a freaking mastermind." --Stefu
"or a very good liar." --Stefu

Snog · January 16, 2001, 08:26

Hi, Exile.

I'm in the midst of playing through Modern Age. I'll keep my eye out for any suggestions. I'm playing as the Berbers on the hardest level.

So far, one thing I like is how each civ has units specific to it. That adds flavor to the game. Sort of age-of-kings-esque.

I'll keep you posted as I notice more things.

--Snog

Snog · January 16, 2001, 10:25

Well, I'm up to 1500. So far, so good.

One thing I have noticed: The siege cannon graphic looks like a picture of a defense cannon. It looks like something that would be built into a fortress, not moved into a battlefield.

Being somewhat of a history buff, I like the text boxes which pop-up from time to time.

--Snog

Snog · January 16, 2001, 10:36

A lot of the Spanish cities have been very weakly defended. Is this something you have done on purpose? I notice however, that I am the only one taking them, so the defense must be good enough to stop the other AI, even though it's a single pikeman at time.

--Snog

Snog · January 16, 2001, 12:19

It's 1506, and I have almost completely driven the Spanish from Spain. They have just one city left, Tortusa. I think they need better defense in their cities; that was too easy.

--Snog

Snog · January 16, 2001, 12:53

Well, I do have one complaint: The AI seems to do absolutely nothing. Only one city has changed hands other than the 25 I have taken: Liege.. the Germans (or whatever you call them) took it. Other than that, the map looks exactly the same.

--Snog

Snog · January 16, 2001, 12:58

I have another suggestion. Could you write descriptions for some of the units? I have no idea what a "culverin" is. I mean: include a describe.txt file with the scenario.

--Snog

Snog · January 16, 2001, 17:38

Ok, well it's 1528, and I am slowly beating back the Italians and French.

There was something very wrong with the Spanish. Their harquebusiers are very weak in comparison to the halbardiers the french and Italians have. Consequently it only took about 50 turns to wipe them completely from the map. (Well, they have one city left, Ghent, but I just left it.)

Snog · January 16, 2001, 17:40

A possible remedy would be to set the harquebusiers to have +50% defense vs. unit with move >1. But, for some reason, the spanish would sometimes leave a city with absolutely nothing protecting it; and sometimes only a boat.

Henrik · January 17, 2001, 01:17

Although I'm not the creator of this scenario I will enlighten you about the Culverin.
A culverin is like an early cannon, they where the first real good artillery pieces (but they where of course nothing like the cannons which would outdate them later).

Exile · January 17, 2001, 03:26

The chances are good that you have a copy of the first version. It has one GLARING error on it that I fixed after only a day or so on the websites. It does involve the Spanish civ. If you like, I would be glad to email you a new copy of the thing, or you can now go to the Spanish or European Civ2 sites and download a GOOD copy now.

Ok, I just came back to this message after a couple of hours of wakefulness. Yes, Snog, what happened is that the Spanish apparently got hold of a tech that was supposed to be "no,no" but got away from me as "nil,nil" in that initial version. Somebody traded it to the Spanish, did you see it? It's called Mediterranean Trade. That's just a fancy name; its only purpose is to obsolete certain units. Having it or not having it is pivotal. The Spanish should have had their own units, as per the Civilopedia. Arquebusiers were never intended to hold cities. Get a new copy of the scenario and see if the Spanish are as easy to conquer again.

THANKS for your feedback, snog, it is so welcome.

Salutations,
Exile

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Lost in America
"a freaking mastermind." --Stefu
"or a very good liar." --Stefu
[This message has been edited by Exile (edited January 17, 2001).]
[This message has been edited by Exile (edited January 17, 2001).]
[This message has been edited by Exile (edited January 17, 2001).]