New Scenario; Beta-testers?

[Exile]

Henrik, just re-read your comment about culverins and yes, your knowledge is correct. I wish that more period-accurate graphics could be found for the artillery, but I had to work w/what was available. Sometimes the graphics weren't exactly what I was after, but there were only so many choices.

Snog; about the cannons, the artillery of the period proliferated in types to the point of absurdity. Old prints and illustrations of cannon varieties have dozens of different names for dozens of different pieces w/dozens of different weights of shot. I had to narrow it down somehow, but the resultant artillery types in the scenario are really more a function of game playability than part of the quest for accuracy. I wanted to demonstrate that the heavy artillery types had a short but heady heyday, until the advent of new fortifications and new armies. After that heyday, the newer types of artillery were invariably lighter, but increasingly more mobile--and had become the products of specialists, as reflected in the tech tree. Because this idea dictated several artillery types in the scenario, I used some quaint, period names for the various units. The names and the history have only a tentative link, primarily for the visceral "feel" of the scenario.

I should've put this in the readme file. But there is so much there already.

Thanks and please keep 'em coming,
Exile

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Lost in America
"a freaking mastermind." --Stefu
"or a very good liar." --Stefu

[Snog]

I got my copy of the scenario from the Spanish CivII site two days ago, so you might want to let them know that they have an outdated copy.


--Snog

[Exile]

Snog, that should be a good copy if you only downloaded it 2 days ago. I don't understand what's happening w/your copy. My still works ok. Did the Spanish AI build the Spanish units? Spanish pikes? Sp. Horse? If not, then something is wrong w/your copy. Contact me (email is in the profile) and I'll be happy to send you a copy of the version I currently have.

Sorry for the trouble,
Exile

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Lost in America
"a freaking mastermind." --Stefu
"or a very good liar." --Stefu

[Snog]

Yes, they did build the Spanish units, but obviously not enough of them if I wiped them out by 1508. The Spanish pikemen seemed to be very weak, as did their harquebusiers. I overran their cities with ghazis and galleys at first, and took the last few remaining with janissaries and cannons once they got their harquebusiers.

--Snog

[Snog]

Try it yourself, and see if it isn't too easy to conquer the Spanish as the Berbers.

[Snog]

I just checked in the rules.txt. Mediterranean trade is set to no,no.

[Exile]

Well, snog, maybe you're just a crackerjack Civ player. (Should have made the damn thing on the deity difficulty setting! ) Based on your info, the game is a good, working copy. What difficulty setting did you play it on? deity? Perhaps you should play the Berbers against a human Spanish player. (hint)

Salutations,
Exile

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Lost in America
"a freaking mastermind." --Stefu
"or a very good liar." --Stefu

[Chris 62]

I,m playing the scenario right now as the english. I got the last tech in 1651. I'm playing it at Prince. I maneged to take Ireland and have a foothold on the continent(6 cities). If you want some good info on artillery try the books by I.V. Hogg. They have illustrations of guns from all eras with comentary from a qualified expert in artillery. Do you have sounds for it? It would make it much better with sounds. It definitly is a good historical scenario. No way will I kill every one this time! Well maybe next try.

[Snog]

I am playing it on deity level. In my experience it doesn't matter what difficulty level the scenario was made under; the game considers the last difficulty level you choose to be the default difficulty level.

The point I am trying to make is.. the spanish were immensely easier to defeat than the other civs. I am using culverins now (1528) and the last city I took from the french I lost 4 of them before I took the city. (It all happened in one turn though because I have about 30 culverins and 20 janissaries in my army.)

With the Spanish I could sometimes take 3 or 4 cities every turn. Against the french and Italian its about 1 city every 2 turns. I'm telling you, halbardiers are taking several culverins to defeat, the spanish pikemen I could beat with one ghazi! You need to do something about this imbalance.

[Exile]

Cpoulos; yes I have a sounds zip-package. My email address is in the profile. Message me and I will send you a copy. How did you go about expediting tech research?

Snog; I don't know why the Spanish are not defending w/the same strength as the other European defensive units. The Spanish pike unit is the same as the Pikemen. I have played numerous times as the Berbers and have managed to seized Cadiz upon occasion, and some island towns, but have never been able to conquer even one interior Spanish city. When I play it, no Ghazi unit would be able to take a fortified town w/a Spanish pike defender.

Exile

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Lost in America
"a freaking mastermind." --Stefu
"or a very good liar." --Stefu
[This message has been edited by Exile (edited January 18, 2001).]
[This message has been edited by Exile (edited January 18, 2001).]
[This message has been edited by Exile (edited January 18, 2001).]

[Snog]

It's not the pikemen that are tough to beat, it's the halbardiers. I'll check this out again to tell you exactly what's going on.

--Snog

[Exile]

Snog, I just can't figure out why that is. The pikemen and Spanish pikes have defenses of 4 w/the anti-horse bonus. The Halberdiers only have a defense of 3 w/the anti-horse bonus. Whenever I have tested it, the Pike units were always tougher than the halberds, and the AI will build both types. If the pike units are getting beat easily and the halberds aren't, there is something wrong. Is anyone else experiencing this, or is Snog the only one? My copy still works fine.

Exile

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Lost in America
"a freaking mastermind." --Stefu
"or a very good liar." --Stefu

[Henrik]

I havent even played the scenario (yet).
But it occurs to me that the better defensive units hitpoints might be higher than the other.
This would make it harder to defeat even if the defence was higher at the other unit.
[This message has been edited by Henrik (edited January 18, 2001).]

[Exile]

Just checked. The Pikemen and Spanish Pikes are both 2 hit points, as intended. Mystified as to Snog's experience.

Exile

[Snog]

I think I have an explanation. I will check in a minute, but I bet anything the Spanish pikemen occupy special slots, while the other pikemen occupy slots that normally hold defenders.

This would explain the strange behavior of the AI: In the spanish cities are one, sometimes ZERO defenders, while in the other cities there is a nice stack of defenders. That's why I was able to sweep through the spanish so quickly.

I thought of this because I just recently put the phalanx into a special slot in one of my scenarios, and got the same results: the computer gets confused and doesn't know how to defend its cities properly, sometimes putting very strange units (like boats or diplomats) as the only defensive units. If you're lucky it will put in one of the special defender; but never a stack of them.

--Snog

[Snog]

I checked.. The regular pikemen are in a slot where pikemen normally are, while the spanish pikemen are in a slot where explorers normally are. I will bet anything that is the answer right there.

--Snog

[Henrik]

The role of the unit might be set to attack instead of defence.

[Exile]

Henrik, you were right. The Spanish pike was set on attack instead of defense. The Spanish units were a last minute addition--the change can be made manually or get a new copy from me. The fix is already done. Again. Thanks, Henrik. The last few playtests were done from the Spanish position, where I manually set the Spanish pikes on fortify in cities. The last playtests of the Berbers were done when the Spanish were still using the generic pike and halberd units.

AARAAARRRRGH,
Exile
[This message has been edited by Exile (edited January 19, 2001).]

[Snog]

WOW! hehehe,

good work, Henrik.

That was my problem, too!

I thought the only change I had made was to change the slot of the unit, but I also forgot to set its AI role to defend not attack!

(Someone's just solving ALL the problems around here!)

--Snog

[Snog]

Alright Exile,

It's time for playtest , take 2!

I bet the Spanish won't be so easy this time!

--Snog

[Henrik]

I had some problems whit this when I playtested my European Modpack (soon to be available for the PC).
My problem was that two of my units (the catapult and the rocketlauncher) where in fact settlers (!).