Thirty Years' War by Tony DeNucci; Second Playtest Version!!!! - Page 2

The Capo · January 12, 2001, 19:22

I put all capitals as objectives just as starters that's the reason why Vienna, Madrid etc are Objectives while Copenhagen isn't.

Yes the cities are all directly from actual maps created during the actual war.

The reason there are Protestants and Swedes is simple, the Protestants called themselves the "Protestant Union" while the Swedes called themselves the Kingdom of Sweden or something to that effect. The Swedes were at the time, engaged in numerous conflicts with small provnicial German Princes (the Princes weren't small, the provinces, although there was probably a tiny prince or two). However at the outset of the conflict the Protestant Union made concessions to Sweden in order to delay their war until they fended off the Habsburgs. It was later that the Swedish (and I should say Danish as well) leaders decided that if they came to the aide of the Protestant Cause it could help them gain power after Catholicism was crushed. Not to mention, the fact that both nations are Protestant does not an alliance make. France and the Habsburg holdings (you know the holdings, I won't list them) were Catholic states, but they warred.

Mercantilism is an advance that has taken the place of trade I believe, discover that and you will know what you must.

Believe me I love the criticisms, however my main worries (since I know basically know the war front to back) lied in the stats of the soldiers. What works, what doesn't what should change?

Also it is too easy for a specific civ? To hard? To easy in general?

I need those types of remarks, because I know all of the other errors pretty well.

One last question, all in all was it an enjoyable scenario, did you have fun with it? Despite its numerous failings?
[This message has been edited by The Capo (edited January 12, 2001).]

Henrik · January 13, 2001, 04:08

I like the overall feeling, yes.
But I am a little confused to why some units have the "count all as road" while others hasn't.
Also you say capitals are objectives, then why is Oslo an objective while Stockholm isn't. Oslo was only a provincial capital at the time while Stockholm was (and still is) the capital of Sweden and Copenhagen is/was the capital of Denmark.
Also I think that mercenaries enter the war to quickly. If you don't have them you can just demand them from the Leuge of Lyons.
I like that they are there (something that was lacking in the other 30years war scen.) as you must probably know when the war had been fought for a couple of years that was the only thing the armies where made up of.

Also most of the fighting is going on in France (!) which seems very wrong (in the early part of the war it's right but the French hasn't the power to move the conflict to "Germany") I think you might have made the habsburgs too strong (I haven't played as France myself yet but when they are AI controlled they just lose city after city to the Habsburgs).

Henrik · January 13, 2001, 05:09

The french player is filling up his countryside whit settling Escort Ships! I don't think this was intended. The Escort Ship has the role Settle and the domain ground set. If that aint a bug then I don't know what is!
And as I said before the french player is beeing beaten up by the habsburg. I think Paris Will fall soon.
Also using cheat Mode I checked the french cities building orders: Almost all of them where building the settling Escort ship. I think you might want to change the French AI from civilized to normal or agressive (apart from chnaging the escort ship to a naval fighting unit)
[This message has been edited by Henrik (edited January 13, 2001).]

The Capo · January 13, 2001, 11:16

Dude, I have mono and I totally took too much differant kinds of pills cuz I feel like I am high man, but i can still think so i can talk to you now.

Oslso is an objectsive buecause i made wonders objectsives and it has that thing with the vikings ow whatever and whatever.

i'll try and make france stronger

damn escort ships!

kkdskkkdkdkdk
k

Snog · January 13, 2001, 11:35

You may need to sleep those drugs off Capo.

Henrik · January 13, 2001, 15:41

Oslo is objective X2 but there is only one wonder, why?

The Capo · January 13, 2001, 19:06

I dunno, okay?

Its an objective x2 okay!!!!

I DON'T KNOW!!!!

Henrik · January 16, 2001, 14:50

If you don't want me to look for possible flaws in your scenario:
JUST SAY SO!

I will not test it if you don't want me to.

The Capo · January 18, 2001, 22:09

I dunno, I was sick and irritable, sorry.

The next playtest will be out soon, I dunno when, within the next to weeks, if I don't seem like it I'm sorry but I really appreciate all of the help and input.

The Cap'

Henrik · January 21, 2001, 10:32

I'm sorry if I am questioning everything, it's becouse I was making a 30 years war scenario myself a while ago but I had to stop becouse it didn't turn out good.

Henrik · January 21, 2001, 15:43

Just be sure to tell when you post the new version.

The Capo · January 22, 2001, 01:55

I shouldn't have flown off the handle like that, I was just really sick and annoyed by everything.

Its my fualt, I asked for criticism.

The real reason behind Oslo's strategic advantage (objective wise) was that it had a wonder and I was basically making big cities Objectives. Obviously not a good idea, but I had Mono so I was really pissy so forgive me.

Again, if anyone else has criticisms, please let me know.

Henrik · January 22, 2001, 11:46

As I said I was trying to make a thirty years war scenario myself some time ago.
If you want you can take a look at it.
It's not that bad, but the map I used sucked at what I used it for and the events became to controlling (I was trying to make the swedish AI invade germany properly).
You might get some Ideas.
You don't have to ofcourse.

[This message has been edited by Henrik (edited January 22, 2001).]
[This message has been edited by Henrik (edited January 22, 2001).]

The Capo · January 22, 2001, 14:51

I got the Swedish AI to invade Germany, you have to get the reputation values right, and the relationship values right between the two, and then put units in the right places and all sorts of other crap. I can't really think of it now, I am at school and don't have access to my home PC.

But it goes down quite well, actually the scenario I made (dunno if it came out the same way for you guys, but did for me every time I tested it) was pretty realistic, as far as European warfare goes. There was a lot of cross-border fighting. ie French against Poles, Indies against Poles, et cetera. Which may not be realistic, but what I was going for (more or less) was this is how things were politically in 1618, you are not trying to recreate the war, though you are entitled to do so, but you are trying to deal with the same situation in your own way, in essence fight the war how you would have done so.

So I try not to keep it in the totally-historical context that a lot of people would have liked. That's not to say I just ignore history, I have a lot of historic elements, but later in the game I doubt it will reflect history other than the fact that some things are an inevitable, and almsot must occur for the person to achieve victory. ie Habs must secure the "Rhine Road" in order to properly consolidate power between their holdings. Things like that, are unavoidable, unless you play totally differant, and that could get tough.

I also created this game with the intent of being an MP scenario, which is why even on Diety it may seem too easy. The rationality is, the AI blows, MP would be a better way to play this.

I gotta go to class now, thanks for the input.

The Cap'

Henrik · January 24, 2001, 14:29

Hope you can take another "bug" report

The flag used for the polish is actually a Brandenburg one, for anyone who doesnt know so brandenburg was/is a dukedom/region in germany that during this conflict sided whit the protestants and allied whit Sweden.
[This message has been edited by Henrik (edited January 24, 2001).]

The Capo · January 24, 2001, 14:48

GRRRR you told my deepest dark secret....

Yes I did use the Brandenburg flag, because it was the closest variation I could find for the old Polish flag.

Man.... you guys suck.....

Ugh, continue the massacre of my scenario....

EDIT: Before I Get another one of these, the flag used for the Habsburgs is the Austrian flag used by the Habsburgs. The flag for the Prussians is the flag used by the Bohemians. The Swedish flag is legit. The French flag is legit, although it was not official or anything, the flag for the Independants is in actuality the old British flag. The flag used for the Protestants is the flag used by Germany during the Bismarck days, the Protestant Union did not employ an all encompassing flag, although I am quite sure one was created for the Union, there was just no specific flag other than German provinces, so I used the one Bismarck did to pretty much connote a united German effort.

There were not as many ships as I have in the scenario available during the time period, I put those in there for fun.

Denmark and Sweden are together despite the fact that they had a love-hate rivalry, they were allied for around ten years during the war, and generally did what they felt like after/before that eventually leading to a war in the final years. They are together for, among other reasons, lack of civs.

If you are a Dane or Swede and do not like this, make your own damn scenario!

Peace.

Or as the Romans would say, Pax!
[This message has been edited by The Capo (edited January 24, 2001).]

Henrik · January 24, 2001, 15:50

Again, sorry, if you are that bothered.

I just wanted to make sure that you knew of this.
If you want to use the flag, fine, as long as you are aware of the fact that it is incorect.
I wont bother you an further, I will not even play the scenario untill you release the final version, in fear of discovering any more faults or bugs that I will be compelled to report.

Snog · January 24, 2001, 18:05

Capo, you don't seem to take suggestions very well.

Part of opening yourself to suggestions means taking ALL suggestions offered to you, and then deciding which ones you want to use.

No one can force you to use a suggestion you don't like. You don't even have to justify yourself to them! But, if you're going to get any good suggestions, you'll probably get some you don't care for.. just ignore 'em and don't take it so personally!

Snog · January 24, 2001, 18:09

And don't insult the Danes or the Swedes.. the ones I have met have all been nice people

--Snog

The Capo · January 24, 2001, 23:06

You guys are uptight man.

I was ****ing with you, relax.

Peace.