1st Apolyton CIV3 TOURNAMENT : 15-30/November/2001

MarkG · November 15, 2001, 10:29

ok, here are the details

Theme: Ancients Civs
Size: Standard Map
Ocean coverage: 60%
Land form: Pangaea
Climate: Normal
Temperature: Temperate
Age: 4 billion years
Barbarians: Restless
Civilization: Babylonians
Level: Regent
Opponents: 7 (Romans, Egyptians, Greeks, Aztecs, Persians, Chinese, Zulu)

- file attached on next post
- submit your saved game on this thread. you can submit only one game (of course)
- use autosave so that you have the last turn before your win

MarkG · November 15, 2001, 10:51

dont forget! deadline is November 30!!

Eli · November 15, 2001, 11:33

Well, a reason to play the game again.

DaBear · November 15, 2001, 16:44

It has a great start position. One of the best that I've seen on this difficulty setting. First run through during lunch at work and already I've got a slim advantage over all the civs...but they are starting to take an exception to that.

Ahlyis · November 15, 2001, 17:09

This sounds like a lot of fun, but I want to know what is/isn't allowed.

Obviously, using mod packs should be disallowed, though it may be hard to prove whether someone did or didn't use them. But what about dirty tricks that are in the game already?

Specifically, it appears that the developers left in a 'feature', probably for playtesting purposes, that allows you to get 100,000,000 gold per turn from an AI Civ. No modification to the code is required, it is in the game as shipped.

Obviously, this would allow you to have insane scores and completely dominate the AI, but is it illegal to use since it IS part of the game?

BTW, if you want to know how to do it, read my post on the Cheats thread.

cybernev02 · November 15, 2001, 18:51

wow... having played CIV2/3 b4 in a cheiftain level seemed not so chalanging... but this is def. a chalange... i think i'm gona stick to my current game and see if i can finish that...

btw, what do u guys this about this?

MarkG · November 15, 2001, 19:40

Quote:

Originally posted by Ahlyis
Obviously, this would allow you to have insane scores and completely dominate the AI, but is it illegal to use since it IS part of the game?

i think it's kind of obvious that such use of bugs/exploits are illegal

now how to prevent this from happening? i cant say i have an anwer....

HunterAssasin · November 15, 2001, 19:58

easily, if they submit a save game with millions of money, it's safe to say they cheated

Skanky Burns · November 15, 2001, 20:19

What about lumberjacking to up your production levels a bit??

MarkG · November 15, 2001, 20:23

Quote:

Originally posted by HunterAssasin
easily, if they submit a save game with millions of money, it's safe to say they cheated

perhaps one could spend them on way or the other

eitherway, the saved games will be availiable online for everyone to check....

MarkG · November 15, 2001, 20:24

Quote:

Originally posted by Skanky Burns
What about lumberjacking to up your production levels a bit??

i dont see any problem with that

it's part of the game

HunterAssasin · November 15, 2001, 21:03

Whew I'm up to like 20AD so far, I never played regent before, just started to get into warlord, so it's pretty hard for me but I'm hanging in there with a slight tech lead, but my score is one of the worst

Anyway I doubt I'll win I'm just in this for the fun

Ahlyis · November 15, 2001, 21:16

Actually, it's really easy to get rid of the money. Just give it to another Civ 2 turns before you win. Then submit the save game from one turn before you win. Your saved game will show a huge score since score is based on an average over the whole game, but you will only have a normal amount of money on the saved game.

The only way I can think of to possibly spot someone who did this would be to watch the quick replay at the end and look for something obviously wrong, like a whole bunch of cities suddenly coming over to them. But even that could be gotten around by only buying an AI city if it is on your borders and only doing it every 10 turns or so. Since money doesn't directly affect your score or power (as far as I am aware) simply looking at the histograph probably won't be sufficient.

Honestly, I don't plan to use this tactic, but I can't see how to tell if someone does.
-------------
On a different note. Is it considered cheating/unfair play to attack, reload if you don't like the outcome, then wait a turn or attack with different units? If so, how in the world do you plan to police THAT?!?!

I think the idea of a contest is good, but I can't see how you could prevent even minor cheaters, let alone those who hack the save files.

MarkG · November 15, 2001, 21:27

Quote:

Originally posted by Ahlyis
On a different note. Is it considered cheating/unfair play to attack, reload if you don't like the outcome, then wait a turn or attack with different units? If so, how in the world do you plan to police THAT?!?!

it's quite obvious that we cant. btw, you cant change the outcome of battle by reloading

Quote:

I think the idea of a contest is good, but I can't see how you could prevent even minor cheaters, let alone those who hack the save files.

in the end, the point is to have fun participating. if someone chooses to act like an idiot....

Elrad · November 16, 2001, 01:23

With all the potential for cheating aside, I've noticed another problem.

Most save files get larger based on how far into the game you are, and how large the map is...A tiny map finished in 100bc (with almost all cities in the pop 1-3 range) I sized at 600k, most end games I think are 2 megs and up....isnt the upload limit 500k?

How will we upload our save files? or is there something that I am missing? (if so, please save me some dignity and point it out right away!)

-Elrad

Eli · November 16, 2001, 02:22

Zip them. They will lose 90-95% of their size.

Dark Horseman · November 16, 2001, 02:30

Quote:

How will we upload our save files? or is there something that I am missing? (if so, please save me some dignity and point it out right away!)

You can always zip the files to compress the sizes. Still that may not solve the problems of a 2 MB saved game. For further compression, zips can compress into .rar files.
Here's a free download for WinRAR.
WinRAR

Mark G will have to approve uploading .rar files to the site though. Rar files are definately not as popular are well known as zips, but if the upload max is indeed 500k, then our last option may be to upload the files to a FTP.

I'm sure Mark will know what to do.

David Floyd · November 16, 2001, 03:13

Yep, I'm playing this tournament...started it tonight. I'm up to about 500 AD or so...my score is hovering around 600, with the Greeks slightly behind me, but my culture is double the Greeks and anywhere from 5-10 times everyone else's...oughta be absorbing a bunch of cities soon...

I've got about 10 or 11 base cities, and then a few that I have absorbed culturally. I started out way behind in the tech race because I went big time expansion + workers, but that's OK because I outexpanded most of the AIs in the beginning, then while they were catching up I was researching. At this point I'm slightly ahead in tech - I'd be a lot more than slightly ahead, except that I'm making a pretty penny in both gold and luxuries by selling my techs around the board.

My one bad spot though is that I have only 2 wonders, computer has the rest so far...that's OK though, I should be able to get most of the rest I want because of my nice city base (half my core cities are at size 12, the rest are getting real close).

MarkG · November 16, 2001, 03:29

Quote:

Originally posted by Dark Horseman
Mark G will have to approve uploading .rar files to the site though.

you probably didnt notice that rar files are already allowed

Dev · November 16, 2001, 04:40

Very nice starting position.

So far I've suceeded in moving settlers in the wrong direction , getting civil disorders because "I will check that city next turn" and several other mindless minor ****ups but I guess that's what happens when you try to play Civ after a 16 hour work day, late Civ session the night before and not enough sleep in general ~

Still, I'm sligthly ahead in tech and at par expansionwise with the dominant AI (Germans) at some 8 or 9 towns each.

I was very lucky with scouting/huts, getting Math and Philosophy from huts halfway across the world

oh and anybody moving their initial city spot one tile to the **** can be written off as save game whores

I'm looking forward to see how other people play this scenario

/dev

Auk · November 16, 2001, 06:07

or as "reading the forums and taking good advice" whores :-) guess I've got a one in two chance of getting it right...

Robert Plomp · November 16, 2001, 06:49

pherhaps we should wait with this tournament untill:

1. the patch made the 10,000,000 bug absolute
2. the europeans have more experience so that top-10 won't be dominated by yankees.

Zealot · November 16, 2001, 07:01

Just downloaded it. I didn't finish my first game, since I can only play at work ( my PC at home doesn't support 1024x768, blablabla), so I can't be sure that I can finish it by the 30th of November.

MarkG · November 16, 2001, 07:03

Quote:

Originally posted by CyberShy
2. the europeans have more experience so that top-10 won't be dominated by yankees.

let them be happy about their abilities for the first tournament

then the eurocoms will take over

Robert Plomp · November 16, 2001, 07:23

Quote:

let them be happy about their abilities for the first tournament
then the eurocoms will take over

nah, the evil warez-eurocoms will beat them immediately !

Not to speak about those guys that spend years of their live to create a website that came close connected with Firaxis so they could starting the blatant @ss kissing and got their copy for that reason immediately after it's USA release (or pherhaps even before it

)

ChrisShaffer · November 16, 2001, 08:25

Are you considering multiple awards? CivFanatics "Game of the Month" are discussing declaring a winner for each of the victory conditions. The idea being that the point system might favor, for example, a culture victory over a military victory. Say it turns out that spaceships are the best way to score points in Civ3. If everyone becomes aware that fact, and the only consideration for winning the tournament is points, then that takes a lot of the fun out of the game.

MarkG · November 16, 2001, 08:39

Quote:

Originally posted by ChrisShaffer
a winner for each of the victory conditions

well, we'll determine this according to the submitted games

for example if we get 30 submissions, it will be a pity to name just one winner.

remconius · November 16, 2001, 09:16

Quote:

Originally posted by CyberShy
pherhaps we should wait with this tournament untill:

1. the patch made the 10,000,000 bug absolute
2. the europeans have more experience so that top-10 won't be dominated by yankees.

well.... Let's have a new challenge after this tournament when the patch arrives. This is not the only tournament I suppose.

I hope the modding can be checked, cause that would blow the purpose...

On online environment like Diablo II would be excellent where you could play your tournament game. Perhaps they should set up with a battle.net or Gamespy.

MarkG · November 16, 2001, 09:19

Quote:

Originally posted by remconius
This is not the only tournament I suppose.

of course, this is only the beggining

Robert Plomp · November 16, 2001, 10:56

Quote:

of course, this is only the beggining

prepare yourself !
Apolyton tournaments untill you DIE !
My game is doing great. It's 'only' regent level (while I play Emperor in other games) and it's really a peace of cake

Do you participate yourself as well Markos....?
Or only if you win