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Old November 15, 2001, 10:46   #1
D4everman
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Local Time: 16:51
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Oberammergau, Germany
Posts: 371
D4's probably uselss tips for a democatic spaceship game
Well, I was ticked off at the situation in my last game, but after taking an early morning drive to the PX for a bagel and coffee I decided I'd won anyway and I'd just try another game. (I built the UN long time ago and was elected, but I wanted a spaceship win and reloaded the saved file to try it. UGH. Constant war with the accursed French and Germans sent my Greek democracy into a tailspin. So I'm posting these notes to help out anyone else. I'm no expert at this game, but I hope this hints and ideas are helpful. They apply to any player thats trying to play a peaceful democracy for a science victory.

YOU CAN'T FIGHT CITY HALL
At least in Civ3 you can't. You're gonna have to get outta despotism as fast as possible. I usually bypass monarchy and go right for republic. Only theres a downside to that. Republic isn't really suited for warfare, so if you want to conquer your neighbors for "breathing room" you'd better go for monarchy. But whatever you do DO NOT try to change governments while building a wonder you really want or an improvement or unit you really need. I got screwed out of a wonder because the five or six turns of disorder allowed my rivals production of it to overtake mine.

LOVE THY NEIGHBOR
A lot of people complain about the AI plopping a city down in their territory in any open space they can find. Its annoying, but usually the city becomes yours anyway. Again, if you're gonna fight your neighbor do it in the ancient times. It'll be too late to get rid of them later. But if you let them stick around on "your" continent make peace. Its better to engage in useful trade and cooperation most of the time. If you get a good tech lead or have luxuries they don't you can make some pretty good gold off of them and make them your friend too. You might also be able to get techs you don't have from them! I had a game where i was alone on a continent and my research suffered because of it.

WATCH MY BACK
Mutual Protection Pacts are a blessing and a curse. They come in handy if you've got an enemy that outmatches you, but your ally might drag you into unwanted wars. It depends on the situation. I entered into MPP's with Rome and China several times because it helped keep Russia, Germany and France at bay. Why attack me when it'll bring half of the world in conflict with you? Also, since i was bordered by Rome and China it helped keep them on my side. I didn't want my enemies making a pact with them and then forcing a war with my powerful neighbors on me. I should also say that my MPP with Rome allowed me to talk Ceasar into a deal for horses. I had none but once we started a trade I could build cavalry units, which helped me chase the Egyptians out of my back yard.

On the flipside I turned down MPP offers from Japan and Russia and even France at some points in the game. All of those nations were always at war with someone. Alliances with them would mean war every few turns. And against my neighbors Rome and China!

MY KINGDOM FOR SOME OIL
Strategic Resources like horses should be traded I think. But once you hit industrial ages you might have to be stingy. I made the mistake of trading oil to the germans in order to try and make Bismarck turn against the French later in the game. But then my 2nd oil resource ran out. Guess what? My only oil resource was going to Bismarck! I couldn't break the deal for 20 turns without taking a reputation hit. So I was unable to build a lot of modern units for awhile while the Germans armed themselves to the teeth. I won't trade a strategic resource again unless I have to for some reason. In retrospect I should have tried to be nicer to Russia and Germany (I largely ignored them until they became a problem) A joint embargo effort with other civs kept France out of my hair for awhile. If I could have talked Russia and Germany into the fold France would have been helpless instead of the monster it became.

WAR...GOOD GOD...WHAT IS IT GOOD FOR?
Absolutely nuthin' if you're a democracy. Thats why you need to kick ass early in the game before you adopt that government. Democracies can't wage long wars. War Weariness needs to be fixed a bit, but as it is, its a show stopper for democracies. If you end up in a war try to end it really fast. Someone told me that if you take a few cities fast the AI civs will accept peace faster. Problem is that in the modern age I couldn't do that. If I stormed the french shoreline and took a city they had fifty billion units railroaded to the spot the next turn. Since Air Superiority doesn't work for the human player (at least until the patch ) the French creamed my bombers. Also the AI is not a pushover like in civ2. They will launch a invasion and a decent one too. Since the French had modern weapons it was mostly a stalemate...but they had the advantage. And razing cities will only make them hate you more thus you won't get peace before your cities start going ballistic. (in one attempt I razed two french cities. The next turn they rail roaded units to kill my troops and settlers to rebuild the city! It was pointless to raze the city and hopeless to keep it!)

Instead fight defensively. I tried that and it worked to some extent. I only attacked enemy units that came into my borders at sea or land. And most of the time I let them fire first. If only I had sweet talked the russians and germans earlier in the game! If you can make powerful allies its more likely your enemies will be willing to make peace when they find themselves at war with EVERYONE. The only downside is you'll probably have to give away gold and technology to swing some civs in your direction. (and they can backstab you. I did talk the germans into a MPP at one point but a few turns later they allied with France to destroy me anyway!)

THINGS TO LOOK OUT FOR
I usually try to build any wonder I can get for the culture points and the benfits. Except the pyramids. In civ2 I always went for them but in Civ3 they'll make your cities grow too fast. I've found that I can do well without them. In no certain order I try for these early wonders The Oracle, because any happiness wonder is okay, The Great Lighthouse: A denial strategy. If I have it other civs can't use galleys to come visit me. If a rival on another continent gets it you'd better put a unit in any open coastline tiles. They will show up uninvited. Its not to useful for me except to explore the world since building cities on other continents leads to crippling corruption rates. (I suppose if you have a mostly island world its good, but I like large maps with big continents.) and the Great Library: Any research boost is good. Plus I don't want some nutcase like shaka zulu to get it and learn some new offensive technology.

Don't get cocky even if you have better units. Some battle outcomes are unbelievable, but most of mine have been okay. There is one that bugs me. I had a russian Frigate sink an aircraft carrier. Yeah, the carrier was down to about half of its hit points but come on. Soren, have you ever seen an Aircraft Carrier?They're f***ing HUGE! Theres no way...NO WAY some ancient Horatio Hornblower 18th century wooden sailing vessel is going to sink one unless they had a freaking Wave Motion Gun mounted on the poopdeck and all of the sailors were wearing rabbits feet. No f***ing way, dude.

Watch your build orders. In the later game I had a HUGE military force but some cities started building stupid things. Some cities by an inland lake started building ships. For WHAT? Theres no where it can go! A lot of cities started building Jet Fighters. Thats not a bad idea except they're uselss until Air Superiority is fixed. They're only good for recon as it stands. Jet Fighters suck mightily on bombing missions. And finally, some cities on my borders had high production and would imediately start on a wonder when it became available. No way, Mr. Mayor. Your city is TOO CLOSE to a potential enemy. If they take the city I lose the wonder. I always build wonders in cities I know I can protect well.

And the AI can see your subs. I don't use them because whats the point?

I'll say this again because it bears repeating for any civ2 vets that haven't played civ3 yet...the AI is not a pushover, even at warlord level. It won't throw units at you in kamikaze raids. It will try to really defeat you with some degree of brains. I tried an experiment by setting Mech infantry on mountains between my border and the Romans and then declared war. The romans didn't attack the fortified and highly defensive Mech infantry...they bypassed them and went straight for cities. They used bombers to cripple any units in the field and soften up targets too. The only suicide raids they took were with outdated units that I suspect they were just getting rid of anyway.

Always upgrade your units. Always. If it can't be upgraded, like a swordsman, build a better unit and disband the swordsman. It'll save you some gold and that little guy with the sword ain't gonna stop a tank. If you have any of those Conan dudes in modern times, get rid of 'em.

Make sure YOU build the UN

Well, I hope this helps somebody out. Hell, I hope I'm right.

I just know that in my next game if i'm near the french I'm going to try and play nice, but embargo the hell out of them if they get uppity. If they get militant i'm gonna kill em. Once joan gets to the bald look she can be a real she devil.

take care all
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