Wars and Rumors of Wars

Skeeve · November 16, 2001, 16:38

Unbelievable! I'm nearly at 1000AD, on a HUGE map with 15 other Civilizations and I have never been at war, nor have I seen any war between other civs!

I've been taking a peaceful trading approach, having carved my niche early in the game. I'm currently the undisputed leader of technology and culture and I'm itching to go to war. However, I'm afraid to do so because I fear plunging this Utopia into it's first ever conflict - Worldwide at that!

Anyone have any similar experiences?
By the way, I've gained a lot of city's peacefully by WOWing them with my culture.

jbird · November 16, 2001, 17:08

I've had the AI rush me if I was weak, rush an enemy if he was weak, or just be peaceful because they seem to feel like it.

One thing about going to war, if someone has nationalism, you better check your foreign advisor. You *must* be sure to not stumble into a war between you and every other civ on the planet, due to mutual protection pacts. Actually, i've been able to hose the AI with this from time to time, by allying with 2 or 3 other civs, even at some cost, to make sure that I'm not the sole target of any agression (or retaliation for my agression lol).

Jbird

Kyle · November 16, 2001, 17:34

My last two games, no wars until the Industrial era started.

Heh, right now, all but myself and maybe one other civ are ganging up on the Americans and there are about five alliances against them as well.

Seems like they don't start wars until mutual protection packs are introduced.

sgrig · November 16, 2001, 20:06

Quote:

Originally posted by Skeeve
Unbelievable! I'm nearly at 1000AD, on a HUGE map with 15 other Civilizations and I have never been at war, nor have I seen any war between other civs!

I've been taking a peaceful trading approach, having carved my niche early in the game. I'm currently the undisputed leader of technology and culture and I'm itching to go to war. However, I'm afraid to do so because I fear plunging this Utopia into it's first ever conflict - Worldwide at that!

Anyone have any similar experiences?
By the way, I've gained a lot of city's peacefully by WOWing them with my culture.

I had a VERY similar experience playing on chieftain on a Huge map with 15 other civs. I had my first proper war after 1500 AD !
Between 1000 AD - 1500 AD I took over lots of cities culturally!

So I guess that's a great improvement over Civ2 where whenever you meet a civ you are bound to go to war with it, while in Civ3 you can coexist peacefully for over 5000 year!

Mind you, from about 1600's onwards wars became quite frequent . It was also quite a challenge keeping up with the diplomatic developments in the world as it is indeed quite easy ending up fighting 2 or 3 civs even before mutual defence pacts - military alliances do the job.

In 1650 AD I had 22 cities, with about half captured from other civs (mostly peacefully) - by 1800 AD I had 50 cities - while I built at most 10 new cities in that period, so you can judge that there has been quite a lot of warfare going on!

vovan · November 16, 2001, 20:14

It seems to me like th AI becomes more aggressive on higher difficulty levels. Subsequently, on something like chieftain there will be less warfare going on than on Deity. Maybe, I'm wrong, though.

jbird · November 16, 2001, 21:19

*laughs*

Well, i'm playing the Persians just tonight. The Zulus *demand* I give them Monarchy or they'll declare war. I refuse, they follow through and declare war.

This is in *ancient* times. I ask the frenchies to go to war with the Zulus with me (they're actually between myself and the Zulus). They want 40 gold, that's cheap to make their cities the first targets instead of mine. I sit back, thinking that'll be enough to secure my border.

When I end my turn, France gets Germany to join in, and Germany gets the Babalonians to jump in as well. 4 on 1, just because he demanded Monarchy from me.

I did absolutely nothing, as the corruption from any captured cities would have *stunk*. The AI was able to take a total of 5 cities from him before peace was stutteringly re-established.

Regent level, btw. Just another example of the AI being bloodthirsty sometimes.

Jbird

solo · November 16, 2001, 21:43

On deity, the weaker you become, powerwise, the earlier the AI will come after you, which is usually well before the AD years!

dexters · November 17, 2001, 01:01

It should be noted the AI doesn't know who is human when its declaring war, and I think this pretty much applies to pretty much all aspects of the game.

Skeeve · November 17, 2001, 16:12

Thanks for the advice guys

It is now 1380AD and the Greeks have just declared war on me for no apparent reason. However, they are so far away that neither of us can get to each other.

The most interesting thing is that, somehow, they convinced the Indians (a relatively weak neighbor) to join their war against me.
Well, I rolled into the Indian Capital and took it in 2 turns! Then, 2 turns later, I took another one of their cities! Thanks Greeks! Now I finally have an excuse for conquest! Not too smart of India to join in a war for which they would suffer the most damage. Suckers!

Oh, by the by, The Americans have since joined the Greeks and Indians against me, but they are on the other side of the planet. No threat at all.

Well, as Jbird said earlier, sometime the AI's bloodthirstyness works against it.

Plumbean · November 17, 2001, 16:51

I am playing on a hugh map thier are four players and in 1100ad I was attacked by Americia I was surprised the computer attacked me wave after wave it took every thing I had to hold them off.It seemed they were heading for my capitial city and nothing else.It was like germany in russia i kept giving ground and in the end I swallowed up thier army in the end the computer sued for piece I went for it I had to rebuild my economy but I had so many units I had to get ride off some of them.So far the game seems cool its the first time in a while I had a real good battle with the computer

SandMonkey · November 17, 2001, 17:09

In my current game the Persians keep doing the stupidest things. They marched 20+ troops right through the middle of my empire (this was after a war in which i took 3 of their cities), and they passed right by my capital! They kept on marching, and eventually I got them kicked out. A couple turns later though, i tried to get them out of my territory again, and they declared war. Great. Now there's 20 guys sitting right outside my main section, and I have very little to beat them with. Well, I was able to whittle them down to 9 left, so far, but with some pretty heavy losses. Also, in the frontier where most of the fighting has taken place, i've gotten my butt kicked pretty badly (mainly due to the fact that the AI somehow mass produces their units with no regard or consequence for their economy, but whatever). Once I finish my road to a supply of iron... they'll feel my wrath through cold steel

sgrig · November 17, 2001, 19:30

Currently its 1816 AD and I am continually being scared by the Romans - they were at war with Zulus and just had to move about 20 legions

through my territory! And when they finished the war they move all their legions back through my territory! Their allies the Egyptians are doing the same but with dozens of knights and chariots - through my territory

. I asked them to leave a few times, but they just step into my borders again the next turn! So now I just want them to go back home as quickly as possible, because if they declare war on me I'll have to fight both of them because of mutual protection, which will cost me a few cities!

Jaybe · November 18, 2001, 17:58

Quote:

Originally posted by sgrig
... I asked them to leave a few times, but they just step into my borders again the next turn! So now I just want them to go back home as quickly as possible. ...

If you have the units to spare, physically block your borders with units, but leave them a corridor to pass through (if you want). Then the problem is that you would also like to line the corridor with troops also, though it may not be necessary if they are just passing through.

High defense units probably are not necessary. They're just passing through, with no hostile intent (we hope)!

jbird · November 18, 2001, 20:02

Or, if you're just gonna let 'em go through anyway, sign a right of passage agreement, and they'll be out 3x faster due to your road network. Once my culture had absorbed the open spots in my empire (so the AI won't build a city in them) I'd sign a right of passage with someone that wanted through, to make them less likely to attack me and to get 'em out quicker.

Side bonus: You can freely investigate their land if you haven't traded for thier map.

Jbird

HunterAssasin · November 18, 2001, 20:44

I hate signing right of passage agreements just for the fact that in the late game you have to watch like a hundred AI units walking through your territory, and if you shut off animate friendly units it's hard to tell if a friend is amassing units near your border to backstab you.

JerryK72 · November 19, 2001, 10:06

I'm playing with 15 other civs, and my whole game has been nothing but WAR. It might be because all the CIVS hate America. My first war was 1000BC with the Iroquis and the Aztecs. My current war is with India & China in 2039. From 1000BC to 2039AD I think I've had only 10 consecutive turns of peace and thats it.. I've tried sueing for peace but that only works for a turn or so. I must go to war to get resources as well, as everyone has a trade embargo against me...

I'm only a few turns away from the finish, and I don't think I'll play 16 civs again, its proving to be just a little too much....

cort · November 19, 2001, 10:37

my bet is that AI does not value a "mutual alliance pact" as high as it deserves, especially with another AI civ and establishes them rather easily. so any bullet dared to fire suddenly turns into a world war.

i remember in one game, russia and england seperately declared war on me just because i didnot accept to give them the techs they were asking for. since they were oceans apart, not a single bullet is fired for centuries. then, the genious french, the neighbor of both, asked me for a mutual alliance and some tech, I accepted and guess what, french declared war on both england and russia, which triggered futher declarations from respective allies including my own neighbors against me. All of a sudden there was a world war going on which had no other reason but french wanted to get "medicine" a few turns earlier.

another one; my country was overrun by cossaks so I wanted to give them some other trouble and asked germans to intervene. they accepted and bring the english along with them to whom I was already fighting for. so on the same battlefield; russians, english and me french were doing threesome, very interesting battle indeed.

quinalla · November 19, 2001, 10:53

I think the AI is more likely to go to war later in the game because there are so many resources that are being discovered at once and it is trying to get them. The Persians declared war on me in a game for seemingly no reason, luckily I saw it coming and got a MPP with America and the Aztecs first, but then when I could see oil a few turns into the war it turns out there was oil right next to this poorly defended city. It's ok though, because everyone made MPP's with someone who was involved in the war so all eight other civs are beating on stupid Persia and I am the only one to take cities so far :LOL

-quinalla

CubsFan915 · November 20, 2001, 16:21

How much I am LOVING the diplomacy involved here...

Case in point - playing as the Persians, and I end up at war with the Zulus. (Can't remember who started it - probably me, as they had a source of saltpeter I wanted to add to my empire. Sure, I've already got two, but you can never be too careful...) I've got a pretty stable empire, though the Japanese to my north are getting a bit uppity.

The Chinese and the Babylonians are between us and the Zulus, well to our south. I get an alliance with the Babys against the Zulus, and a right of passage and MPP against the Chinese. I end up taking one of the Zulu cities, and then the Chinese decide to jump into the fray - the offer us an alliance, plus trade embargos against several of the European powers that I haven't really gotten involved with yet. As I'm pounding on the Babys, the Japanese figure that my attention is elsewhere, and they demand several techs to leave me alone. I refuse, and it's war on two fronts. Lots of Japanese samurai come streaming across the border and put a couple cities, including a couple of important ones, under siege.

Enter the Chinese.

Having forgotten all about the MPP, I'm about ready to panic. The Chinese declare war on the Japanese, and Chinese knights come pouring across the border and wipe out most of the samurai. Then the Babys decide to get it on with the Zulus as well. The Chinese are blocking my access to the Zulu city with the saltpeter, but it borders the Babys. One right of passage agreement later, I'm zipping through the Baby territory to take over the saltpeter, and I've got the Babys and the Chinese defending my homeland from the Japanese, allowing me to send my riflemen into Japan to slap them back down to size.

I know that the corruption issue is a pain, but the diplomacy alone is incredible!