November 17, 2001, 13:50
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#1
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Warlord
Local Time: 11:59
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 198
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Diplomacy Bargaining Power Question
Does anyone have any idea how bargaining power works? Example:
I was the aztecs. The americans were in AWE of my culture. Our militaries were roughly equal. They were cautious because we had a few wars in the past.
One of the trading combinations I saw was if I offered Monarchy (about 4-5 scientific advances worth) for writing (1st or 2nd advance) they were INSULTED?! THEY were insulted?
I thought culture is supposed to affect the quality of trades you get. For me to give monarchy for writing should have improved our relations tremendously, instead it would have insulted them, and that with my OVERWHELMING cultural superiority.
Any insight welcome.
Thanks.
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November 17, 2001, 13:56
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#2
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Prince
Local Time: 16:59
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Dec 2000
Posts: 525
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Haven't you heard? The Americans aren't very keen on Monarchy. Refer to events in the US in the 18th century if you need further explanation.
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November 17, 2001, 14:00
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#3
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Warlord
Local Time: 11:59
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 198
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Good point. Do nationalities make a difference? I mean do certain nationalities bargain more aggressively? (Even so, this was ridiculous
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November 17, 2001, 14:34
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#4
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Prince
Local Time: 16:59
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Dec 2000
Posts: 525
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Oh, the other point I had to make was...were the Americans overall less advanced than you at the time, or more advanced?
And...were they running a Republic or Democracy at the time?
Because, if they were on Republic or Democracy, I can see why they wouldn't want Monarchy.
And also...I find the AI to be really quite tetchie (sp) if you've warred with it in the past.
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November 17, 2001, 15:31
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#5
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Chieftain
Local Time: 09:59
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Great Underground Empire
Posts: 60
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Another thing, is that the americans might only be 1 or 2 turns away from discovering monarchy themselves. I've noticed that if the computer is close to discovring a tech, they of course won't want to trade much for it
Z
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November 17, 2001, 16:03
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#6
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King
Local Time: 12:59
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Dumbass
Posts: 1,096
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hey, dont worry, the ai diplomacy is completely unrealistic... its not an isolated incident.. as a test, i asked for 10 gold in exchange for 9030 gold... it didn't work so i offered all 5 techs i had over her (Elizabeth) and all my cities as well, and it still didn't work (see thread: OH MY GOD)
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November 17, 2001, 16:24
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#7
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Chieftain
Local Time: 08:59
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 36
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the only time they would refuse to give ten gold for all that in my games have been when they don't HAVE 10 gold to give.
Although once I accidentally listed 500 gold per turn when I thought it was lump sum. They refused, I assumed because the game knew I could afford it.
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November 17, 2001, 16:29
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#8
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King
Local Time: 11:59
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Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: "The Iron" Stadium, Ubergorsk, Apolytonia (C3DG)
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I asked for one, size six city.
In return, I offered A) Every city in my empire (except my capital) -- several of which were size 12 (the max I could do at the time), and numbering about eight or nine cities total B) All the gold I had C) All the techs I had up on them (two or three major ones) D) everything else I possibly could.
Apparently, it's not worth it . Note that this is on Cheifton (have to get a feel for the game ), and I was one of the most powerful civs -- certinally not a ton less powerful than them.
In other words -- Bug. Computer assumes player will play rationally. Tut tut, bad assumption .
-- adaMada
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November 17, 2001, 16:44
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#9
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Settler
Local Time: 16:59
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 3
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Actually, I don't think that's a bug. AFAIK, computer players will NOT trade cities for anything. This is to prevent rich players from "buying" cities. The only time the AI will cede cities to you is if you're whoopin' them in a war and you ask for some cities as part of the peace agreement. Other than that, forget it.
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November 17, 2001, 16:52
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#10
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King
Local Time: 11:59
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Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: "The Iron" Stadium, Ubergorsk, Apolytonia (C3DG)
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Quote:
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Originally posted by StonedGoat
Actually, I don't think that's a bug. AFAIK, computer players will NOT trade cities for anything. This is to prevent rich players from "buying" cities. The only time the AI will cede cities to you is if you're whoopin' them in a war and you ask for some cities as part of the peace agreement. Other than that, forget it.
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Prehaps you're right (with cities), but I think it's a bug when you're as powerful as an enemy and you ask for something and offer the same something but with more value. So the ten gold to one hundred gold bug... I think, in a little way, that should apply to cities. If I offer them a size twenty city with several wonders, and ask for a size one -- they should take it and smile .
For that reason, I'd say it is a semi-bug... maybe not a total bug, but the AI should be able to say "this is a great deal" and take it.
-- adaMada
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PTW Game: Proud member of the Roleplay Team, and Ambassador to Glory of War
Intersite PTW Game: Member of Apolyton
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November 18, 2001, 08:01
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#11
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Prince
Local Time: 16:59
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Join Date: Dec 2000
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For what tactical or strategical purposes would trading 100 gold in return for 10 ever be necessary?
The word "idiotic" springs to mind.
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November 18, 2001, 12:14
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#12
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King
Local Time: 11:59
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Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: "The Iron" Stadium, Ubergorsk, Apolytonia (C3DG)
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Idoitic is it exactly. But, the AI should be able to handle idiotic moves on the part of the human. It should assume we're all stupid if we act like it, and take advantage of us accordingly .
It's really not a major issue, and probably isn't even worth patching until all the other stuff's been fixed, but it should be considered a bug.
-- adaMada
__________________
Civ 3 Democracy Game:
PTW Game: Proud member of the Roleplay Team, and Ambassador to Glory of War
Intersite PTW Game: Member of Apolyton
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November 18, 2001, 14:13
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#13
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Prince
Local Time: 16:59
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Dec 2000
Posts: 525
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Why not just give your opponent 90 gold as a tribute? They would accept that graciously.
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