Venger's early game notes...

Venger · November 18, 2001, 18:18

Thought I'd post some thougts I scribbled playing my first game - started some of the ways in and I'm still playing it, but after two pages figured I'd regurgitate the good and the bad...

Warriors kill my musketeers - Huh ?

Cannot see health values at times - can this be shown in bottom right

Same with movement remaining - is this anywhere? Otherwise you just have to guess...

Ironclad lost 4 to ZIP against a frigate

Production queues and the governors SUCK!

Workers are back! Hooray! No public works!

Cannot goto a city when it reports disorder? Huh?

No option to go to Civilopedia for lookup on terrain click...

Have to right click to see what other units are in my hex, should be seen in a status window...

No more senate keeping me down! Hooray!

Sliders too small on scroll screens...

Cannot see map (or civilopedia?) during negotiations...

Bombardment!

Map should move when unit is obscured by info boxes

No war weariness indicators!

Is it me or are the choices not clear? Too much smart assedness in the dialog boxes...

Cities go from massively happy to unhappy - with no indicators (war weariness maybe? How about an indicator...)

Skirmishers!

Sometimes the sound cannot be heard or the captured workers aren't seen in city (bug)

No more free tech when a city falls!

No sleep/sentry mode for units? Ugh!!!

Army rules SUCK!

Privateers SUCK!

Local resistance!

Can I see what governments are available to me anywhere?

ESC should have a quit to main menu option on it...

WAKE ALL UNITS PLEASE!!!

Damage should affect sea movement points

Big grey circles on foreign ministry circles (uggo)

Keyboard shortcuts SUCK! This is harder to control than an F-16.

What sadist decided to have the rifleman fire his gun with every movement point? I had to build railroad just to shut that off...

BORDERS SUCK!

Discuss...also, these were notes, alot could be my unfamiliarity with some of the controls, so please enlighten me where I have made an error or been ignorant of a feature...

Venger

Setsuna · November 18, 2001, 18:42

Fortify counts as sleeping.

Venger · November 18, 2001, 18:46

Quote:

Originally posted by Setsuna
Fortify counts as sleeping.

Hmmm...will the unit wake up if another unit comes near it? Cause if it doesn't, it doesn't work like sleep/sentry...

Venger

Setsuna · November 18, 2001, 18:49

Oh.

Nope, it doesn't wake up until you tell it to. And here I thought you had an invalid complaint. :P

Venger · November 18, 2001, 18:54

Quote:

Originally posted by Setsuna
And here I thought you had an invalid complaint. :P

Never!!

Venger

nato · November 18, 2001, 19:04

Movement points remaining are shown in the box at lower right.

But really I just want to know what you mean by skirmishers?

Venger · November 18, 2001, 19:34

Quote:

Originally posted by nato
Movement points remaining are shown in the box at lower right.

They are? Where? I've been moving units and have not seen the numbers move at all...

Quote:

But really I just want to know what you mean by skirmishers?

Skirmishers in the zone of control - passing units get shot at by my cavalry. A welcome change.

Venger

Zorkk · November 18, 2001, 19:47

I really really really miss the Sleep/Sentry command from the other CIV games. I dunno why they didn't put it in.?!? kinda strange!

Sleep/Sentry made it much easier to load up your transport boats too. Just move in, move out, POOF. Full of all the sentry units that it could hold....

Zorkk

nato · November 18, 2001, 19:47

Gee maybe I'm wrong. Maybe you have to right click the unit to see its movement points left. I know for certain you can find them though.

Skanky Burns · November 18, 2001, 20:32

From the manual, pages 196 - 200: (these are the shortcut keys)

Main Menu - Ctrl M (cant test as it uses my windows shortcut instead)
New Game - Ctrl Shift Q (goes directly to the menu)
Quit - Esc (quits directly to windows)
Resign and Quit (to menu) - Ctrl Q
Retire - Shift Q (doesnt work at all)

These are all the quitting options listed, and my results when testing them. The bold one is the one you wanted

Venger · November 18, 2001, 20:38

Quote:

Originally posted by Skanky Burns
From the manual, pages 196 - 200: (these are the shortcut keys)

Main Menu - Ctrl M (cant test as it uses my windows shortcut instead)
New Game - Ctrl Shift Q (goes directly to the menu)
Quit - Esc (quits directly to windows)
Resign and Quit (to menu) - Ctrl Q
Retire - Shift Q (doesnt work at all)

These are all the quitting options listed, and my results when testing them. The bold one is the one you wanted

You gotta be kidding me! What's with all the obtuse shortcuts? Was it that hard to hit Esc and have:

1) Quit Civ3
2) Quit to Main Menu
3) Continue playing.

Now I have to remember what three key code gets me back to the main menu.

God, that sucks...

Thanks for looking it up for me though...

Venger

MarkG · November 18, 2001, 21:23

Quote:

Originally posted by Venger
Warriors kill my musketeers - Huh ?

woh attacked what? musketeers are meant for defence...

Quote:

Cannot see health values at times - can this be shown in bottom right

it's the little green or red boxes next to the unit. also on the right-click menu

Quote:

Same with movement remaining - is this anywhere? Otherwise you just have to guess...

right click menu

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Ironclad lost 4 to ZIP against a frigate

was the firgate a veteran or an elite?

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Production queues and the governors SUCK!

have you tried giving specific instructions to governors?

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Cannot goto a city when it reports disorder? Huh?

yes you can, it's one of the options on the pop-up

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No war weariness indicators!

click on unhappy people in your citizens. it will tell you why they unhappy

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Cities go from massively happy to unhappy - with no indicators (war weariness maybe? How about an indicator...)

see above

Venger · November 18, 2001, 21:31

Quote:

Originally posted by MarkG
woh attacked what? musketeers are meant for defence...

Since when? Oh, since Civ3 rewrote the history of armed combat. The fact they are used for defense is a function of their poorly designed combat values. They should be, at a minimum, 3/4/1, assuming we can give them more HP than medieval and primitive units.

What, may I ask, was considered wrong with musketeers in Civ2 that require them to screw them all up, along with the rest of imperial age arms?

Quote:

it's the little green or red boxes next to the unit. also on the right-click menu

As I said, it's obscured alot of times by other units on the map. It's health SHOULD be readily visible in the status box though.

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right click menu

Why are we clicking for information that should be readily available and has been since Civ?

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was the firgate a veteran or an elite?

Both veteran.

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have you tried giving specific instructions to governors?

I've tried. It keeps switching to Legionarys and Privateers. For the love of God...

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yes you can, it's one of the options on the pop-up

Not when a city goes into disorder it isn't.

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click on unhappy people in your citizens. it will tell you why they unhappy

Ah! A useful piece of info. Thanks. Still, the Civ2 info screens saved you from having to click EVERY unhappy guy. There's just a better way than making em click my mouse button till it breaks...

Venger

Monoriu · November 18, 2001, 22:28

Warriors kill my musketeers - Huh ?

Never happened to me. Maybe because I always end my musteteers' turn in good defensive terrain, always at full health (wounded musketeer units are always covered by TWO full health musketeers), always produce veteran musketeers, never ever draft, always stay in stacks of at least 2 musketeers, and never attack with musketeers (they are not offensive units)? I guess complaining on the boards is easier than taking the time and effort to micromanage your units properly.

Cannot see health values at times - can this be shown in bottom right

Hmm not a big problem but I agree with your suggestion.

Same with movement remaining - is this anywhere? Otherwise you just have to guess...

Its there.....in the box to your lower right hand cornor, the units remaininng movement is shown. Say, a tank its shown like 16,8,2/3. That 2/3 is the movement remaining.

Ironclad lost 4 to ZIP against a frigate

Sigh. See above. ALWAYS bombard, NEVER leave wounded units in the open, always produce veteran units, stay in stacks, oh, and don't start a war unless you have 30 ironclads.

Production queues and the governors SUCK!

Agree 100%.

Workers are back! Hooray! No public works!

Agree 100%.

Cannot goto a city when it reports disorder? Huh?

Agree 100%.

No option to go to Civilopedia for lookup on terrain click...

Hmm not a big deal, it does show you the values....

Have to right click to see what other units are in my hex, should be seen in a status window...

I love the right click thing, because I often have 30-40 units in a hex. BUT one thing bothers me: when I right click, I can't see which unit has moved and which hasn't at a glance..... this really bothers me.

No more senate keeping me down! Hooray!

Good news indeed.

Sliders too small on scroll screens...

Doesn't bother me.

Cannot see map (or civilopedia?) during negotiations...

Yeah that will be nice.

Bombardment!

Agreed.

Map should move when unit is obscured by info boxes

Doesn't bother me.

No war weariness indicators!

There are indicators! Your population is your best indicator. If they are unhappy for no reason, its probably due to war weariness. Plus, if you double click on them, they will tell you "All we want is to give peace a chance".

Is it me or are the choices not clear? Too much smart assedness in the dialog boxes...

Dunno what you are talking about.

Cities go from massively happy to unhappy - with no indicators (war weariness maybe? How about an indicator...)

See above.

Skirmishers!

What? What are those?

Sometimes the sound cannot be heard or the captured workers aren't seen in city (bug)

Never happened to me.

No more free tech when a city falls!

As it should be.

No sleep/sentry mode for units? Ugh!!!

sentry should be back.

Army rules SUCK!

I happen to love armies.

Privateers SUCK!

So don't use them. I am not even aware there are privateers in game until you mentioned them.

Local resistance!

Cool concept.

Can I see what governments are available to me anywhere?

Press F1, domestic advisor.

ESC should have a quit to main menu option on it...

that will be cool.

WAKE ALL UNITS PLEASE!!!

Then you'll also wake all your city garrisons. Not a good idea.

Damage should affect sea movement points

/shrug. I am live with that, but I also like the current system.

Big grey circles on foreign ministry circles (uggo)

???? What are you talking about?

Keyboard shortcuts SUCK! This is harder to control than an F-16.

More shortcuts are always nice. The double click thing does bother me.

What sadist decided to have the rifleman fire his gun with every movement point? I had to build railroad just to shut that off...

Not sure what you mean. Graphics seldom bother me.

BORDERS SUCK!

Borders rock.

Setsuna · November 18, 2001, 22:31

I am NOT reading that until you format it into something legible!

Venger · November 19, 2001, 02:33

Quote:

Originally posted by Monoriu
Warriors kill my musketeers - Huh ?

Never happened to me.

Attack a warrior, or better yet a spearman, with a musketeer and you will.

Quote:

Maybe because I always end my musteteers' turn in good defensive terrain,

Impossible. How can you advance a musketeer unit when most of the game is flat land?

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always at full health (wounded musketeer units are always covered by TWO full health musketeers),

Do you have magical powers of healing?

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and never attack with musketeers (they are not offensive units)?

They are offensive units, but they are not correctly valued to be such. They need retooling BAD.

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I guess complaining on the boards is easier than taking the time and effort to micromanage your units properly.

I guess some people look and see the forest, and some look and see the trees...

Quote:

Its there.....in the box to your lower right hand cornor, the units remaininng movement is shown. Say, a tank its shown like 16,8,2/3. That 2/3 is the movement remaining.

I'll look - is the 2/3 two thirds of a MP for road movement?

Quote:

Sigh. See above. ALWAYS bombard, NEVER leave wounded units in the open, always produce veteran units, stay in stacks, oh, and don't start a war unless you have 30 ironclads.

Screw that, why cover a bad combat system with overhead of my time?

Quote:

Skirmishers!

What? What are those?

ZOC opportunity fire.

Quote:

Keyboard shortcuts SUCK! This is harder to control than an F-16.

More shortcuts are always nice. The double click thing does bother me.

I wasn't clear, I like some keyboard shortcuts, but the ones in this game SUCK! Goto city is Ctrl-Shift-G ??? Hitting R doesn't work to make railroads if there is already a road? The shortcuts we have kinda suck...

Quote:

BORDERS SUCK!

Borders rock.

I wish Civ3 had some real borders, because as they are now, they suck.

Venger

Barbotte · November 19, 2001, 02:55

Quote:

They are offensive units, but they are not correctly valued to be such. They need retooling BAD.

I think you should have said that to the designers before the game was out. Musketeers have the stats of a defensive unit and the AI use them like a defensive unit.

Transforming them in an offensive unit would be hard because they replace the pikemen and the AI would be left with no defensive units. An AI with no defensive unit is not a great opponent (some of it`s cities are defenseless).

Monoriu · November 19, 2001, 03:10

You said: Attack a warrior, or better yet a spearman, with a musketeer and you will.

Musketeers are for defensive. Use cannons and knights for offense.

You said: Impossible. How can you advance a musketeer unit when most of the game is flat land?

That's why I move them in stacks of 3 or 4. That way they stand a much better chance of survival.

"Do you have magical powers of healing? "

I wasn't very clear. If a musketeer is wounded, I can always move 2 full health musketeers to protect the wounded unit, so my wounded units are seldom caught surprised.

"They are offensive units, but they are not correctly valued to be such. They need retooling BAD. "

Combined arms man. Infantry = defense. Cavalry/tanks = offense/hit and run. Artillery type = bombardment. If infantry have good offense value, then why bother with cavalry? Different units should have different roles.

"I guess some people look and see the forest, and some look and see the trees... "

Nope, its some people adjust to the system, but others choose to play it the way they like and then complain when it doesn't work.

"I'll look - is the 2/3 two thirds of a MP for road movement? "

Err not sure, I'll have to look to confirm it.

"Screw that, why cover a bad combat system with overhead of my time? "

Finally, you admit that its because you don't want to spend the time to micro-manage your units

Seriously, the system rewards the people who spend 20 minutes to play a turn to micromanage the units and double check if everything is ok before ending the turn. Those to like to rush ahead tend to get penalized.

"Skirmishers!

What? What are those?

ZOC opportunity fire. "

Yeah that's a nice new feature.

"I wasn't clear, I like some keyboard shortcuts, but the ones in this game SUCK! Goto city is Ctrl-Shift-G ??? Hitting R doesn't work to make railroads if there is already a road? The shortcuts we have kinda suck... "

I have to agree.

"I wish Civ3 had some real borders, because as they are now, they suck. "

Nah, borders shouldn't be an "iron curtain". They shouldn't make your territory 100% safe. If you don't like the AI trespassing, declare war.

Shiva · November 19, 2001, 04:16

Quote:

Originally posted by Venger
Warriors kill my musketeers - Huh ?

Musketeers are a defensive unit in this game. Edit it if you dont like that.

Quote:

Originally posted by Venger
Ironclad lost 4 to ZIP against a frigate

Happens with the lack of firepower. 5 bad random numbers in a row will kill any unit. Unless they change the combat system get used to it.

Quote:

Originally posted by Venger
Production queues and the governors SUCK!

Governors suck if you dont program them. The production queue works fine as long as there is something in it and you have not changed something in midstride. After you do the Gov will mess put whatever he thinks is best for the next unit while the rest of the queue remains and will straighten its self out on the next unit after.

Quote:

Originally posted by Venger
No option to go to Civilopedia for lookup on terrain click...

So you have to click what? Three buttons to look up something that after a game or two you'll almost never use again. Not a big deal.

Quote:

Originally posted by Venger
Sliders too small on scroll screens...

I dont know. They look fine on my 19 inch monitor.

Quote:

Originally posted by Venger
Cannot see map (or civilopedia?) during negotiations...

Now that does suck. God knows what they were thinking on that.

Quote:

Originally posted by Venger
Army rules SUCK!

Privateers SUCK!

Yep to both.

Quote:

Originally posted by Venger
Big grey circles on foreign ministry circles (uggo)

Not a big deal to most people. Paint them some other color.

Quote:

Originally posted by Venger
BORDERS SUCK!

As in? I dont have a problem with intruders as long as Im in good standing with everyone else, have a strong army, and not stuck in the middle of two countries who goto war.