More AI Flaws & Suggestions

Pyrodrew · November 19, 2001, 07:30

1st, I think Soren did a great job with the AI for the most part. Below are some... problems I found & have read here with the AI tho. Please add any additional ones I don't mention.

1.Most recent one I've discovered is the AI still HIGHLY values dead-end techs even after the wonder has been built for them or if the unit is obsolete. The AI should have 0 value (or near zero) for a dead-end tech for which the wonder has already been built or the unit is obsolete. The only exception should be is if it is a required tech to advance to the next age. Furthermore, once say for example Bach's Cathedral is built by 1 player, the AI players researching MusicTheory should change their research to a new tech since MusicTheory is now a dead-end tech with no benefits. This would make for a smarter & better AI.

2.Once you have an AI's Territory Map the AI treats it's territory map like crap in future negotiations. I can often buy their territory maps centuries later for 1 gold! In case you don't know, strategically getting updated territory maps are great for planning attacks against them, seeing where their current roads lead (Rights of Passage value) & to see how developed they are. I was hoping the AI Germans or some AI Civs would be more secretative, but ALL AI Rulers give this away for pennies... I mean a penny. Sometimes they might charge 2-9 gold, but that is rare. And WORSE it sometimes increases the relationship you have with them!

3.If you sue for peace with an enemy and ask for a city, that should work, but if you you break the treaty a few turns later and then try for peace again, they should remember that you crossed them last time and not accept any deal but plain peace treaty." This can be exploited by take city-make peace-take city-make peace-etc. etc.

4.The AI should value it's world map (it's exploration work) much more & guard these secrets. Most should not hand this out so easily even if someone's world map is larger than someone else's world map. Specifically because large areas of claimed land is less valuable then unsettled & unexplored land. The AI doesn't know the difference it's often in a trading frenzy with maps. Revealing where empty ocean is also not smart. Making someone else waste their time to explore empty ocean is strategically superior.

5.The AI knows by instinct which city has the weakest defense, so all I did is keep moving my troops around from city to city every turn... the ENTIRE AI ARMADA would just sail up and down my coast switching targets to the least defended city EVERY turn. Because I kept moving my troops, they wouldn't make up their mind and never landed till I signed a peace treaty.

6.The AI overvalues cities... example - a size 3 city in tundra/pine trees & 1 deer/game, by no means a great city or any potential. It was no where near the Zulus or Babylonians & buried deep within the Aztec empire soon to be absorbed by culture. I asked what the Zulus would trade me for this crappy city no where near them with only a courthouse, their answer: 2 techs, 2 gold/turn, communication with another civ, & Incense!!! Babylonians offered a similar deal with 15 gold/turn included... the city earns 1 gold/turn & heavy distance corruption will keep it that way. Yet, I'm glad the AI doesn't undervalue cities... that would be worse.

7.The MillionDollar Bug - ability to get 9999999999 gold/turn from a civ.

8. Finally, just my opinion, but the AI should be a little more aggressive when the Unique Unit first enters and if it dominants the scene... even if it's just 20 turns or so. Having a 4-2-1 unit & NEVER using it is a waste. Likewise, the Greek's Hoplite is superior defense, why not start a fight if everything else is equal & you have a better defense... that advantage will not be there later. The AI should seize these opportunities. The French Musketeer rarely dominants at 3-4-1, but that would be ideal given the French AI peaceful nature.

Pyrodrew · November 19, 2001, 23:19

Besides the editor & multiplayer, the AI is the most important aspect of this game to me. So if no one minds me asking again... agree or disagree with anything written above? Anything to add?

Monoriu · November 19, 2001, 23:42

I agree with everything you said. Great post

Peterk · November 19, 2001, 23:59

Agreed as well...(but also think it's amazing for a first release to be so solid - most of those issues can be circumvented by an honest player just avoiding certain tactics) If I had to make a list like this for Civ II after 2 weeks of play, it would have been 2 pages long at least.

dexters · November 20, 2001, 00:02

My experience, however limited is that the AI does use its unique units.

I like to play as the Americans (yes, I happen to like them a lot) and in the games I've played, I've come up against the Aztecs often. And when we go to war in the early game, I'd get swarms of jungle warriors coming down on me.

uh Clem · November 20, 2001, 00:48

Quote:

when we go to war in the early game, I'd get swarms of jungle warriors coming down on me

Yeah, I'm getting that right now, and it isn't even the early game. I've got Rifleman, Cannon, and (soon to be promoted to Cavalry) Knight units battling about a hundred JWs. Really weird to watch them move. Reminds me of that Karen Black horror film, where she's being chased around the house by some little guy.

Frito · November 20, 2001, 01:38

What difficulty are you playing on?

Raleigh · November 20, 2001, 06:27

Excellent post.

One question. Everyone has been talking about how the AI knows your defenses, but didn't Soren say in his transcript that the AI will bypass some of your undefended cities for better richer cities even if they were strongly defended?

Archmage · November 20, 2001, 07:07

I think if another Civs units come within a certain radius of a city with a fortified unit, the unit should automatically activate.

I also think the Cultural borders should be scrapped for a national border. You should just claim certain territory as your own. I'm not really sure how this could be implemented but I'm tired of the AI racing to a tiny undeveloped patch of land in the heart of my empire and building some crappy little town.

I've seen other people mention it also but I'm tired of repeatedly expelling other Civ's units. The AI should respect my borders AND one anothers.

A Civ that is hopelessly outclassed should be offered the opportunity to surrender and just be swallowed up by the conquering Civ. Four cities left and producing Knights and I have 30 tanks en route...it's over. Realistically, most Civs would just give up. The Finnish being one notable exception... It wouldn't have to always happen but sometimes would be nice...
Maybe a Civ with a lot of Culture would put up the good fight but a Civ without much national and cultural pride would probably be relieved to be annexed. It would also save a lot of lives and destruction and a leader who cared about his people would take this into consideration.

The French should immediately surrender to the first Civ that finds them...

Stack units to move, as has been repeatedly mentioned.

I think CivIII has made a LOT of improvements and overall, I'm happy with it... The GoTo pathfinding is awesome. Shift-P for cleaning up pollution by workers...awesome. The idea of culture is terrific. For every negative there are probably two positives at least...

Kekkonen · November 20, 2001, 07:35

Quote:

Originally posted by Archmage
A Civ that is hopelessly outclassed should be offered the opportunity to surrender and just be swallowed up by the conquering Civ. Four cities left and producing Knights and I have 30 tanks en route...it's over. Realistically, most Civs would just give up. The Finnish being one notable exception...

Heh. I wasn't aware we ever fought tanks with knights.

SuiteSisterMary · November 20, 2001, 10:17

Quote:

You should just claim certain territory as your own. I'm not really sure how this could be implemented but I'm tired of the AI racing to a tiny undeveloped patch of land in the heart of my empire and building some crappy little town.

That's easy enough; any land that is COMPLETELY SURROUNDED by your borders becomes assimilated.

As it stands now, I could build a cities around the coast of surprisingly round continent, and have NO claim to the interior.

"I must insist that you withdraw your forces at once!"
"Sure, no problem, baby. As soon as we've finished crossing these eight or nine squares, we'll be out of your territory, right?"
"Get off my land, you peacekeeping son of a *****!"

quinalla · November 20, 2001, 10:40

I think the AI should ask for a Right of Passage agreement if it wants one, I have only had one AI ever ask for a RoP. Sometimes the AI doesn't care if it pisses you off and will just keep crossing your borders, but sometimes they really do want a RoP, but it is like they don't know to ask for one.

Also, the AI make Mutual Protection Pacts kind of randomly (at least it seems that way from the games I have played). Has anyone else noticed this? For example, I was in a MPP with the Aztecs and American right before the Persians declared war on me. When America could, they decided to get rid of their MPP with me and I agreed because I didn't need their help (since all the other civs had signed MPP with someone and everyone was at war with Persia now). Then America signed a peace treaty with Persia and 3 turns later they signed a MPP with the Aztecs and then had to declare war on Persia again. I think this is kind of weird, but maybe the AI has a reason.

-quinalla