A Strategic Analysis of the Special Units (LONG)

[RobC]

A Resource- and Tech- Focused Analysis of Civ3 Special Units:
(Units sorted by earliest appearance in the game)

Aztec Jaguar Warrior (1/1/2): Warrior with an extra movement point. You start the game able to build them. Effectively gives you chariots for 50% off, without the need to discover the wheel or obtain horses. Provides you a greater range to capture workers/settlers and take over cities in the very early game, but their attack value is essentially negated by the discovery of bronze working by your opponents and the appearance of spearmen. With their 2 movement points, they are still useful for exploring, since unlike scout units they can actually defeat barbarians and capture encampments, and unlike chariots or horsemen they can cross mountains without roads (the value of scouts or explorers in general is negated by mid-game when everyone has already traded world maps with you and expanding culture borders have made barbarians on the continent pretty much extinct). Jaguar Warriors are good for players who like to be very aggressive in the early game and then live off of their early conquests by building temples and cathedrals to maintain/expand their early empire.

Greek Hoplite (1/3/1): Spearman with an extra defense point. Since Greece starts with bronze working, you can build them from the start of the game. Gives you the defense of pikemen before discovering feudalism (and the 18 ancient era techs you need before you can get into the middle ages to even research feudalism), plus costs 50% less than pikemen. Their 3 defense points makes them dominant defensive forces until your opponents discover iron working and a source of iron to make swordsmen, and even then they can more than stand their own. Fortified in a city, behind a river and/or in good defensive terrain like mountains, they can even give 4-attack immortals, knights, samurai, and war elephants a run for their money, so they are not really made obsolete until your enemies have discovered military tradition at the end of the middle ages and can throw cavalry or cossacks at you. Hoplites are ideal for players who like to focus on building, culture, diplomacy, and/or commerce.

Zulu Impi (1/2/2): Spearman with an extra movement point. Requires bronze working. Like the Aztec Jaguar Warrior, the extra movement point gives you extra range without requiring the wheel or horses. Unlike the Aztecs and Greeks, however, the Zulus don’t start the game with the necessary technology to immediately build their Impis, and if their neighbors are able to trade you bronze working, it means they already have spearmen that can easily defend against your roving impis. While still useful for exploration like the Jaguar Warriors (since Zulu scouts can’t take out barbarian encampments), Zulu Impis are generally not available to you early enough to quickly attack weakly defended enemy cities in the early game (though you could use them to capture enemy workers and escort them home more safely). The extra movement point is probably more useful in the context of allowing a mobile defense force, which could reduce the size of your standing army required to defend your land, assuming you have an adequate network of roads as well. Probably the best way to use the Zulu is to aggressively expand through building lots of settlers and/or attacking neighbors with your archers, then use your Impis to quickly reinforce these new cities.

Egyptian War Chariot (2/1/2): Chariots with an extra attack point. Requires the wheel, which Egypt does not start with, and a source of horses. Effectively gives you horsemen at a 50% discount, and before discovering horseback riding. Similar to the Aztec Jaguar Warriors, Egyptian War Chariots should be used in the early game to quickly take over neighboring cities and capture workers. Their 2 attack means that they are not obsolete as quickly as Jaguar Warriors, but on the flipside you have to wait until you discover the wheel (unless you are lucky enough to find Japan nearby and they are willing to trade it to you) which means you can’t use them as quickly either – by the time you have the wheel, the AI may actually have gotten around to defending their cities with more than a couple of warriors. The Egyptian War Chariots remain useful until the beginning of the middle ages when pikemen appear, but then you can always upgrade them to knights (unless you are the AI, in which case you will keep them around indefinitely, presumably to cause enemy Modern Armor gunners to laugh so hard they can’t fire straight). Egyptian War Chariots are, similarly to Aztec Jaguar Warriors, good for players who like to expand aggresively in the early game before settling back and building wonders to dominate culturally.

Babylonian Bowmen (2/2/1 – note that civ3.com originally stated 2/1/2, but is now corrected): Archers with an extra defense point (or spearmen with an extra attack point). Requires warrior code, which Babylon does not start with (although there are five civs that do start with it, so you have a good chance of trading for it before you could finish researching it yourself) but gives you a 2 defense unit without requiring bronze working. A nice two-for-one unit that merges the attack value of an archer with the defense value of a spearman, allowing you to get away with having a smaller standing army since you don’t have to maintain both offensive and defensive units. Unlike the Aztec Jaguar Warrior and Egyptian War Chariot, the Babylonian Bowman only has a single movement point, which makes them less useful for exploring or raiding other civs for workers. They can, however, be effective for more traditional, systematic wars (at least during the ancient era) since they can move into enemy territory to attack without requiring additional defensive units to guard against enemy counter-attacks. Babylonian Bowmen are balanced units, which can be used by players of any playing style (although the Babylonian civ overall is best at waging a culture war, with its cheap temples and libraries)

Iroquois Mounted Warrior (3/1/2): Horseman with an extra attack point. Requires horseback riding, a source of horses, and a good ignorance of history since Iroquois warriors didn’t typically use horses (a better unit in my opinion would have been an upgraded warrior or archer with 1 movement point but the explorer’s ability to treat all terrain – or at least forests – as roads). Gives you an alternative offensive unit to swordmen with a 3 attack rating even if you don’t have ironworking or a source of iron (and horses seem to be more plentiful than iron). A good assault unit in the ancient era, able to capture enemy workers and also attack enemy cities then retreat before getting killed (which makes me wonder if an army of Mounted Warriors is really that much better on attack than three individual ones…I guess it depends if there are any really strong defenders there are in the city since the army could throw all their hitpoints at the same defender). Their 2 movement points can allow you to conduct deadly offensives by maintaining a constant stream of Mounted Warriors who move back and forth between enemy cities and friendly territory to attack until they are down to 1 hit point and then heal until they are ready to attack again. It takes longer to obtain the necessary tech for the Iroquois Mounted Warrior than for the Egyptian War Chariot, but at least they don’t become obsolete when your enemies discover feudalism and start making pikemen (although you probably want to upgrade them to knights once you have chivalry). They aren’t truly obsolete until your opponents discover gunpowder and have musketmen defending their cities. Iroquois Mounted Warriors are good for players who prefer to build up their own territories a bit before going out and wreaking havoc among their neighbors (while enemy cities tend to be better guarded by this time, they are also bigger, so you get more when you capture them).

Roman Legionary (3/3/1): Swordsman with an extra defense point. Requires iron working and a source of iron. Similar to Babylonian Bowmen, but they can actually stand up to enemy swordsmen with a defense of 3, which you otherwise have to wait until feudalism to get. Roman Legionaries remain useful as defensive units much longer than they do as offensive units (knights are much better offensively once you have chivalry, but Roman Legionaries, like Greek Hoplites, can reasonably defend against any enemy units weaker than cavalry). Like the Babylonian Bowmen, Roman Legionaries are balanced units that lend themselves to many styles of play.

Persian Immortals (4/2/1): Swordsman with an extra attack point. Requires iron working and a source of iron (note that the Persians begin the game with bronze working). Terror of the ancient era, Persian Immortals offer the attack value of a middle ages knight much earlier than would otherwise be possible, and without needing horses. The 4 attack rating is particularly devastating in the ancient era, where most defenders have at best a 2 defense rating (in the middle ages, at least defenders have 3 defense pikemen to guard against enemy knights). Since they have a more down-to-earth defense rating of 2, neighbors of the Persian civ would be wise to remember the old adage, “the best defense is a good offense,” and make lots of horsemen and swordsmen to kill those Persian Expendables, I mean Immortals, before they reach can reach their cities. Persian Immortals are ideal for the scheming warmonger who will wait until they have begged, borrowed, or stolen ironworking and a source of iron before pouncing on friends and enemies alike with unrestrained glee.

Chinese Rider (4/3/3 – note the manual incorrectly states 2/2/2 and civ3.com still incorrectly states 4/4/3): Knight with an extra movement point (can also exert ‘zone of control’ to automatically attack passing enemy units, which normal knights cannot). Requires chivalry and sources of horses and iron. Gives you an extremely flexible and mobile unit in the early middle ages with a movement rating of 3 long before you can discover military tradition and the equally fast cavalry (and doesn’t require saltpeter). Make sure you have a good network of roads to use your Chinese Riders to maximum effect – quickly moving from one front to another to attack or defend against different enemies. Chinese Riders are also great for staging attacks deep into Indian territory to sack Delhi when your spies report that Ghandi is about to finish JS Bach’s Cathedral two turns before you do! The Chinese Rider can be very effective for players who are going for a non-military victory like winning to race to Alpha Centauri, since their extreme mobility means you can have a much smaller standing army to pay under republic or democratic governments, and you can devote that much more resources to science or building improvements.

Japanese Samurai (4/4/2 – note the manual incorrectly states 5/3/2): Knight with an extra defense point and no need for horses (they sure run fast for short people with wooden sandals!). Requires chivalry and a source of iron. Like the Babylonian Bowmen and Roman Legionaries, the Japanese Samurai are balanced units with the added bonus of having a movement rate of 2. Their defense of 4 can be obtained a bit earlier than with musketmen, since gunpowder is two techs away from feudalism instead of just one for chivalry (a lot earlier if you don’t have a ready source of saltpeter!) Similarly to the Chinese Rider, Japanese Samurai are an excellent mobile defense force that can allow you to get by with a much smaller standing army. Their 4 defense also makes them formidable attackers that are hard for opponents to counter-attack and their 2 movement allows them to retreat when the battle goes against them. The Japanese Samurai are one of the best special units for taking over the world during the middle ages (but if you’re not done by the time your opponents have calvary and/or riflemen you can forget it!)

Indian War Elephant (4/3/2 – note the manually incorrectly states 4/4/2): Knight that doesn’t require horses or iron (although they don’t seem to require elephants either, which is a good thing, since elephants in civ3 are apparently too busy being hunted for the ivory in their tusks). Requires chivalry. Like the Mounted Warrior (who gives you a 3 attack without iron) and the Japanese Samurai (who gives you a 4 defense without saltpeter), the Indian War Elephant gives you a 4 attack and 2 movement rating without horses or iron, although it doesn’t give it to you early in terms of technologies required. The whole advantage lies in not needing resources, which is a benefit you can’t really evaluate before the game when you are selecting a civ to play. If you get stuck in a territory devoid of horses and/or iron, then you are brilliant, but otherwise it’s a bit of a waste (sure, it can save you an extra resource or two to trade to other civs, but do you really want to give potential enemies iron if they don’t already have it?) The Indian War Elephant, while being one of the coolest looking special units, is also the least useful in terms of the unit bonuses it gives you. Maybe they should be 3/4/2 just to make them different (shouldn’t elephants be harder to take down than horses? …oh wait, I forgot they don’t require elephants!)

French Musketeer (3/4/1): Musketmen with an extra attack point. Good for their ability to taunt English knights (aka ‘empty headed animal food trough wipers’), but pretty much useless otherwise. As usual, the French are more interested in style than substance, with flamboyant feathered caps and knee-high flared boots taking the place of any useful bonus. Why would you waste a special unit by giving an extra attack point to a defensive unit that isn’t going to attack anything? Are they going to counter-attack knights that are attacking French cities? I would rather have the 4 attack knight attack my 4 defense musketman fortified in my city than venture out with my 3 attack French Mouse-keteer against the 3 defense knight with whatever terrain/river defense bonuses they would get. Why not just send my own knights out for counter-attacks? Oh well, I you can only expect so much from a pink-colored civ (pink, feathered hats, and knee-high stockings…hmm…)

Russian Cossack (6/4/3): Cavalry with extra defense point. Requires military tradition and sources of horses and saltpeter. I’m not really sure how much difference the extra defensive point really makes. Sure, it will give your cossacks even odds of defending against old Don Quixote, but it still isn’t going to save your ass if Lawrence of Arabia comes charging down the hill at you with his cavalry. In the context of a competitive game, having a 6/4/3 unit against opponents with 6/3/3 units just doesn’t seem like a big advantage. It’s too bad, since I think the Russian Cossacks look really cool too (why is it that the coolest looking units are the least useful?)

English Man-O-War (3/2/4): Frigate with an extra attack point. Requires magnetism and sources of iron and saltpeter. Helps you rule the seas, which depending on your world map may or may not be terrible important. More of a concern is the fact that this unit is made obsolete with steam power and the ironclad, which usually doesn’t come very long after magnetism, so the Man-O-War’s glory days may be short-lived. On the plus side, it has a cool name and it’s not as wimpy as those waste-of-a-perfectly-good-six-shields privateers (which should really be 2/1/3 to have a chance at taking out caravels and galleons).

German Panzer (16/8/3): Tank with an extra movement point. Requires motorized transport and sources of oil and rubber. Although the extra movement point doesn’t matter much for internal defense (moving from one front to another) since you probably already have railroads connecting all your cities by the time you get motorized transport, it does make a difference on offence, allowing you to blitz through enemy territory. The German Panzer is even better than the Chinese Rider at capturing (or more likely, razing) cities deep in enemy territory that are close to finishing an important wonder. It can also be useful for simply bypassing enemy lines and troop concentrations to strike at softer interior targets. The German Panzer remains dominant throughout the industrial ages, and even into the modern times until your opponents discover computers for mechanized infantry or synthetic fibers to build modern armor. Of course, you’ll never let them live that long. German Panzers are great for the very patient warmonger who will dilligently remember every threat and incursion by neighbors during the ancient age so they can descend and exact a horrifying revenge in the late industrial age.

American F-15 (8/4/-, bomb: 4/6/2) Jet Fighter with extra bombing range and rate of fire, plus radar that allows them to see two spaces regardless of terrain, and precision strike capability that doesn’t work. Don’t bother with it until we get a patch that fixes interception and precision bombing.

--

The unit that confers the greatest tech advantage is probably the Persian Immortal, who gives you a unit with an attack rating of 4 after only one tech advance (since they start with bronze working) instead of needing to acquire all 16 additional technologies to get out of the ancient era, plus 2 middle age technologies to get to chivalry and build knights. The Greek Hoplite comes in a close second, giving you a defense rating of 3 immediately (since the Greeks start with bronze working) instead of waiting for all 16 additional ancient era techs, plus feudalism. Coming in third is the German Panzer, which gives you a 3 movement tank with motorized transport, 2 industrial and 3 modern techs before synthetic fibers and modern armor. In fourth place is the Chinese Rider, which saves you 5 middle age technologies by giving you a 3 movement unit with chivalry instead of waiting for military tradition. The rest of the special units give smaller tech advantages, usually offering some unit capability just one or two techs before you could otherwise get it.

In terms of resource advantages, the Indian War Elephant saves you from needing to obtain both horses and iron to make knights, the Aztec Jaguar Warrior, Zulu Impi and Japanese Samurai give you 2 movement units without horses (the Japanese Samurai also gives you 4 defense without saltpeter), the Iroquois Mounted Warrior gives you a 3 attack unit without iron, the Persian Immortal gives you a 4 attack unit without horses, the Chinese Rider and German Panzer give you 3 movement without saltpeter and aluminum respectively, and the English Man-O-War gives you a naval unit with better than 2 attack without coal.

Considering the combined tech and resource advantages of the special units, the 'best' units are probably the Persian Immortal, Japanese Samurai, Chinese Rider, and (of course) the German Panzer.

[adaMada]

awsome . nice job .

Only one suggestion -- repost this on the strategy forums. That way, it'll stay at the top longer, more people will reply, and the reply will be more inteligent/focused/whatever. In other words, really good job, but this will help more people/be used better if you post it on the strategy fourm as well.

-- adaMada

[General Ludd]

I haven't read it all, but I just wanted to comment about the Zulu Impi, they are perfect for early guerrila warfare, they can easy move around in enemy territory happily capturing workers and pillaging improvemts while avoiding enemy troops - and when it does meet up with one, it can defend itself.

[Dis]

you described the jaguar warrior in good terms. I would hope you ranked it better than hoplite.

But I suppose that all depends on play style. I always figure the best defense is a good offense. I found out that when the ai starts rolling into my territory, I'm doomed. I don't think 1 extra defense will help much.

But building a unit immediately upon start is very nice. I have never lost to barbarians. And when fortified on hills can hold enemy ai's at bay. I even defended against swordsman.

So for a very early war rush (using archers and jaguar warriors with some spearman thrown in to defend cities), the aztecs do very well.

But I do agree that the immortals is probably the best unit. But I just don't see hoplites as that useful. Defending against the ai is futile. If they surround your city, you are in deep sh!t. don't let that happen folks!!

yes I'm biased. I love my aztecs.

[Zanzin]

thanks for posting mate, makes for some interesting and thoughtful reading

[Venger]

Great post. I think you've uncovered special unit problems, and of course I already think there are unit value problems in general. Hopefully a revamp of the whole system will revamp some of the weaker special units (except the French, who for historical accuracy should have crappy units)...

Venger

[Adm.Naismith]

Interesting post, RobC!

I greatly appreciate the correction you made to units stats (I usually don't pay attention to check manual vs. real game value, so I'm sure I'd missed once I'll get the game).

Overall, do you feel that adding Special Units to the game had been good? (There was a hot debate about it a while ago, when Firaxis revealed the Special Units concept was in).

A couple of thing you don't mention:

1) I have heared that there is some limit into upgrading Special Units up to more modern units, not sure if as a bug or made for purpose: can you confirm this?

2) Special Units winning trigger Golden Ages, so they have a collateral effect other than on battlefield. Do you have any note about that part (mostly about special units age period) that can shift the balance about ranking unit's worths?
I.E. you usually prefer early age Special Units, but that means a forced early G.A. - Is it still good to have this trade-off?

[Stuie]

Nice analysis, but you completely ignore the true value of movement - the ability to retreat when facing destruction. This gives the Jaguar Warrior, the Impi, the Rider and the Panzer a huge advantaged when used in combat. Yeah, the extra movement is nice for capturing enemy units, but I think you've completely missed the true advantage here.

[adaMada]

Originally posted by Stuie
Nice analysis, but you completely ignore the true value of movement - the ability to retreat when facing destruction. This gives the Jaguar Warrior, the Impi, the Rider and the Panzer a huge advantaged when used in combat. Yeah, the extra movement is nice for capturing enemy units, but I think you've completely missed the true advantage here.

hum... good point, didn't think of that.

Still very good -- and I'd still post this on the strat forum if I were you...

-- adaMada

[granite00]

Great. Yet another manual chocked full of errors.

[Lawrence of Arabia]

Sure, it will give your cossacks even odds of defending against old Don Quixote, but it still isn’t going to save your ass if Lawrence of Arabia comes charging down the hill at you with his cavalry.

uuhh...That would be me

[Vladimir Taltos]

Another key point about the Impi's extra move lies in defence, not attack. Since you will have fast units guarding your cities, attacking units can't retreat, and you'll chew up alot more of their units. One of the things the AI is good at is moving its wounded units back to heal up.

[Styria]

Originally posted by RobC
Maybe they should be 3/4/2 just to make them different (shouldn’t elephants be harder to take down than horses? …oh wait, I forgot they don’t require elephants!)

Elephants are scary, but you can hamstring them.

[Easy Rhino]

good good good post.

I think the jaguar warriors are TOTALLY killer if you like to be like ai locust at beginning of game.

I am currently playing a game as americans. doh.

ER

[CB2034]

I still think the American f-16 is the best unit...
a unit that u have to wait for the whole game
and doesnt work either just rocks!!!!!!!

[J10]

Great post. It's no wonder that the German Panzer, Chinese Riders and Persian Immortals are voted 3 of the "best UU" in Civ3 on another thread.

[nato]

Naismith - I've been able to upgrade my Musketeers up to Riflemen. I didn't keep track of them, but I have never been unable to upgrade a Riflemen.

You can't upgrade to a special unit, supposedly because the Golden Age ability of the special unit is too strong to let come from an upgrade. You can however upgrade past the special unit to the next step after it.

What I really want to talk about is the forced golden age. I have to say I am finding it to be a serious downside. It makes your golden age almost completely lost. I thought this would be so before the game came out, but many ppl preferred the idea of early GA ... is anyone finding it useful when you have 1-3 very small cities?

I guess the question is - how valuable is a well timed GA? In my France game, I had like 25 low-corruption cities, with an average population of maybe 8. That means maybe 8 extra commerce, and 6 extra shields, per city per turn. Total value maybe 3000 shields, 4000 commerce.

Sidenote, as I posted elsewhere about Industrious advantage ... extra shields may often be totally irrelevant, because shields beyond what you need are lost. Therefore reduce shield value to maybe 2500 or so.

Now my Babylon empire got its GA with 4 cities, total population a whopping 8. So total value maybe 150 shields, 160 commerce.

There is a further cost - early game I want to make settlers at a high rate. With GA, I hate having those 2 population points walking around, not getting their GA bonus. Just something to consider.

So we are looking at maybe 2500 S + 4000 C versus 150 S + 160 C. Of course the bigger numbers come much later in game, so they have to be discounted for time. Doing that we would have to know the interest rate ... how much being later devalues it. That of course depends on play style. Its going to have to be a very high rate to make 2500 / 4000 near 150 / 160 ... later GA is probably more valuable by a fair bit.

I think you are taking a pretty big loss to have that early GA. You've GOT to make that early attack count big to make it worth it.

[Saint Marcus]

I personally think that the best UU is the Hoplite. It has a defense of three, for which everyone besides the Romans, have to wait for until they get feudalism. And even then the Hoplite is superior, since it required less shields and no resources. It's my defensive unit of choice until the musketmen pop up, which is well into the middle ages. It may not be as fancy as a Panzer, but certainly a lot more effective considering you can use it from 3000BC till 1200AD, right from the start till well into the middle ages. The perfect unit, simple but effective.

Best UU, in my opinion:

1. Hoplite
2. Immortal
3. Rider
4. Panzer
5. Legion/Samurai

[AstralBoy]

Achtung Panzer! What a great unit to have. . . I now play as the Germans so i can get hold of this powerful beast of a unit.

[Enigma]

I like the idea of extra movement very much, the Impi and the Jaguar warrior are really excellent at stealing workers/destroying infrastructure... but sometimes you have to just quit the guerilla combat and take over a city. This is where Immortals excel.

Something else you forgot about immortals is that it takes FOREVER for them to become obsolete- there isn't a replacement unit until the end of the medieval ages! Even then calvalry costs 2.7 times as much as an immortal- in pure shields costs having 5 immortals is better than having 2 calvalry as far as taking over a city.

I agree that late game golden age is probably better- but here is my point: I would rather have the extra production of an empire that is double sized than an empire that having a nice late game golden age in a smaller empire... immortals allow me to take all of an enemy's empire with almost no casualties.

The Rider is nice... but I do like the Impi and the Jaguar warrior more... the Jaguar warrior could become a really fearsome early game rush unit. Remember that spearmen do not make Warriors or J.Ws totally obsolete... they cost twice as much, so if you can bring 3 or 4 warriors or J.Ws to bear on a single spearmen you will probably kill it... the extra numbers required are negated by the fact that J.Ws will RETREAT... this is a big deal in the early game when every unit counts.

Impi could be a HUGE pain in the ass in the early game since until knights no 2 movement units have more than 2 attack... if they use swordsmen there is a good chance that the swordsman will die and NO chance that the impi will die, and impis cost less! I would use the Zulu's a lot more of their civ bonuses didn't suck so much.

[ElitePersian]

Originally posted by J10
Great post. It's no wonder that the German Panzer, Chinese Riders and Persian Immortals are voted 3 of the "best UU" in Civ3 on another thread.

can you show me which thread this is?

[ElitePersian]

Originally posted by Mark L
I personally think that the best UU is the Hoplite. It has a defense of three, for which everyone besides the Romans, have to wait for until they get feudalism. And even then the Hoplite is superior, since it required less shields and no resources. It's my defensive unit of choice until the musketmen pop up, which is well into the middle ages. It may not be as fancy as a Panzer, but certainly a lot more effective considering you can use it from 3000BC till 1200AD, right from the start till well into the middle ages. The perfect unit, simple but effective.

Dude, the hoplite is ONLY good for defense, and if you arent at war, the hoplite is extremely useless, except against barbarians, which only take gold from you anyways.

The persian immortal is definately the best UU since they have 4 attack, and spearman-like defense to back it up, only when u get a knight in the middle ages (wayyy later)can u match up, but like Enigma said, they still cost 2.7 times as much, but knights arent 2.7 times as effective - and also they dont require horses on top of iron like knights do. 5 immortals is better than 2 knights, therefore, even when knights become available, i still think immortals are better.

Sure, the immortal isnt a fast unit, and it'll stop short before reaching a city, and might get attacked, but thats not a problem cause it has 2 defense.

so the immortal is a unit that lasts even more than one era, even knights cant match up with immortals since they arent 2.7 times as effective, while costing 2.7 times as much, and requiring iron AND horses.
shouldnt that be enough to say the immortals are the best unit in the game?

[Adm.Naismith]

Originally posted by nato
Naismith - I've been able to upgrade my Musketeers up to Riflemen.
You can't upgrade to a special unit, supposedly because the Golden Age ability of the special unit is too strong to let come from an upgrade. You can however upgrade past the special unit to the next step after it.

Thanks, I probably remembered the wrong way of the upgrade limit.

What I really want to talk about is the forced golden age. I have to say I am finding it to be a serious downside. It makes your golden age almost completely lost. I thought this would be so before the game came out, but many ppl preferred the idea of early GA ... is anyone finding it useful when you have 1-3 very small cities?


So we are looking at maybe 2500 S + 4000 C versus 150 S + 160 C. Of course the bigger numbers come much later in game, so they have to be discounted for time. Doing that we would have to know the interest rate ... how much being later devalues it. That of course depends on play style. Its going to have to be a very high rate to make 2500 / 4000 near 150 / 160 ... later GA is probably more valuable by a fair bit.

I think you are taking a pretty big loss to have that early GA. You've GOT to make that early attack count big to make it worth it.

Interesting analysis. Your last sentence is the key IMHO: if you have an early Special Unit you shoul use it a lot in early attack, or you have lost a late, valuable Golden Age for almost nothing.

[RobC]

Originally posted by adaMada
Only one suggestion -- repost this on the strategy forums

Good idea; I'll e-mail the admins and ask them if they will move it.

Originally posted by Adm.Naismith
Overall, do you feel that adding Special Units to the game had been good?

Like many people, I think game balance trumps historical accuracy, but I also think that fun trumps game balance (after all, what's the point of a balanced game that's no fun?), and IMHO special units are one of the most fun parts of the game (and one reason to keep playing if, for example, you are the germans and you are already beating the crap out of everyone in the early middle ages -- you still have to continue because you just HAVE to get those awesome panzers, even if G.I. Joan only has two cities left to blitz through by then...

1) I have heared that there is some limit into upgrading Special Units up to more modern units, not sure if as a bug or made for purpose: can you confirm this?

As nato mentions, you can't upgrade TO a special unit (as I discovered when my seven veteran Russian knights loitered around my barracks in a futile attempt to obtain rifles and black stallions) but you can upgrade FROM a special unit to a better later unit.

2) Special Units winning trigger Golden Ages, so they have a collateral effect other than on battlefield. Do you have any note about that part (mostly about special units age period) that can shift the balance about ranking unit's worths?
\I.E. you usually prefer early age Special Units, but that means a forced early G.A. - Is it still good to have this trade-off?

I think nato addressed this pretty well, although I would add that the smaller absolute value of shields and commerce for an early GA is somewhat offset by the greater accumulated cultural value of the building you produce at that time. For example, if your early GA allows you to beat your opponents to the Pyramids, how would the accumulated culture of that wonder compare to the extra 2000 shields later in the game?

Originally posted by Stuie
Nice analysis, but you completely ignore the true value of movement - the ability to retreat when facing destruction. This gives the Jaguar Warrior, the Impi, the Rider and the Panzer a huge advantaged when used in combat. Yeah, the extra movement is nice for capturing enemy units, but I think you've completely missed the true advantage here.

Oops! You got me there...yes, one of the best things about fast units is the ability to retreat from combat before getting themselves killed (although I do think they need to have a movement point left, so this may not work if you have to blitz through enemy territory to surprise attack a city), plus as Vladimir Taltos mentions, it also conversely prevents fast enemy units from retreating from combat (although I don't remember if this applies to 3-move units vs. 2-move units: can cavalry retreat from knights?) Also, I think most of the units that have zone-of-control abilties have 2+ movement points (I just love those pot shots you get to take at the AI, who is smart enough to go AROUND tough defensive bottlenecks like fortified pikemen in a mountain fortress)

Thanks for all the comments everyone! Keep 'em coming!

[adaMada]

Just thought I'd add that I asked MarkG to list this on the Apolyton Civ 3 Strat Pages and he did... keep up the good work .

-- adaMada

[ChrisShaffer]

Regarding early vs. late golden ages, it's certainly possible (and can be quite productive) to not build your special unit and thus, delay your golden age. As the Babylonians, for example, I build zero bowmen, because they have limited upgrade potential and spearmen are the same cost for defence. In my current game (the first Apolyton tournament) as the Babylonians, I am about to enter my golden age in 590 AD with the completion of the Sistine Chapel.

[vmxa1]

Nice. I wonder how useful the panzer is since it comes so late in the game? I just played as Persians and had Germany near by so I just whacked them down to size with Immortals to prevent and blitzkrieges later. F15/16, man alive why would you let the americans live long enough to use it. I would agree with Immortals as the top UU. My only complaint (minor) is it leads to the earliest GA is town. I pop a barracks and come out with veteran immortals to make life tough on any near by civs.
As for manuals, that is bum. To be fair, manuals go to press and the games is still being tweaked, it can not be avoided, unless you are willing to hold the game for an extra period (4 weeks or more). No one is going to do that.

[player1]

I think that THE BEST special unit of ancient age is definetly MOUNTED WARRIOR.
With cost of 30, and ststs of 3/1/2, it has power of swordsmen and ability of retrieting. And it can eat Immortals for brakfast.
Of course Hoplite & Legion can make problems for it sometimes, but it can almost always retreat & try again.
It's pity that after discovering Chivarly you can't build M. Warriors anymore. I would rater have 2 Mounted Warriors then Knight.

[player1]

Correction: In that case I would build Knights in my high production cities and M. Warriors in low Production cities.

[ElitePersian]

Originally posted by player1
I think that THE BEST special unit of ancient age is definetly MOUNTED WARRIOR.
With cost of 30, and ststs of 3/1/2, it has power of swordsmen and ability of retrieting. And it can eat Immortals for brakfast.
Of course Hoplite & Legion can make problems for it sometimes, but it can almost always retreat & try again.
It's pity that after discovering Chivarly you can't build M. Warriors anymore. I would rater have 2 Mounted Warriors then Knight.

i dunno man, i dont think that a lower attack and lower defense is worth the extra movement point + retreating - when you retreat, its hard to heal, cause you gotta get outta enemy territory first, then wait a few turns. an attack point on offense AND defense is really quite a bit, since it gives the immortals the ability to defend cities as well as a spearman.