How do we punish Firaxis?

Spartan_RawB · November 20, 2001, 00:22

I've heard it over and over again in these forums and the picture is pretty clear. Civ 3 is a product that should never have been released at its state.

Game playability, compatibility, resource-balancing, etc. etc... key areas of the game are just intolerable for that good "civing experiencing." Yes, there are some good features. But on the whole, this is not Civilization 3. Sid Meiers has never created a product so laden with such serious playability problems.

How do we punish Firaxis and other companies involved for this blatant act of corporate irresponsibility and stupidity? I'm quite angered that they actually thought they could get away with this. Consumers must take action to punish this type of corporate behaviour, or they tacitly approve that they can be sold a piece of lemon like this.

Rise to arms, my fellow civers and list some ideas here!

SuiteSisterMary · November 20, 2001, 00:23

Quote:

How do we punish Firaxis and other companies involved for this blatant act of corporate irresponsibility and stupidity?

Having read this drivel, I feel punished.

Don't like it? Don't buy it. Otherwise, quit assuming that you have some divine right to satisfaction.

monkspider · November 20, 2001, 00:26

Frankly, I feel that I have ripped off Firaxis by only paying them 60 bucks for the game, being the honest soul that I am, I'm still trying to find a way to paypal them their extra money.

Freeze · November 20, 2001, 00:27

Quote:

Originally posted by SuiteSisterMary

Having read this drivel, I feel punished.

Don't like it? Don't buy it. Otherwise, quit assuming that you have some divine right to satisfaction.

Don't like it? Don't read it. Otherwise, quit assuming that you have some divine right to satisfaction.

monkspider · November 20, 2001, 00:32

Don't like people not liking to read it? Then don't read that they read it. Otherwise, quit assuming that you have some divine right to satisfaction.

Baloo · November 20, 2001, 00:40

Here are some ideas from your humble servant:

-Get a Class lawsuit experienced Lawyer and pay it for 5000 an hour without resorting from your daddy's wallet.
-Post desultory posts on Firaxis to every newsgroups in the Internet. Maybe some members of alt.homosexual or alt.sos.Kiribati will get the message and join your cause.
-Play CTP2. Maybe the rumor that it's a great game is true after all.
-Quit playing too much electronic games and complaining about them in the process. Bill Gates and Larry Ellison don't play games. Succesful people avoid meddling with games. There's a real world outthere. Now conquer the real thing, not some bytes called "the AI".

With all due respect, all power to you

Freeze · November 20, 2001, 00:42

Umm... who keeps taking alt.cascade out of the newsgroups line???

sachmo71 · November 20, 2001, 01:03

If you feel so strongly about it, write a letter to them. Tell them about how the gaming industry is ripping off their consumers, releasing unfinished products and then waiting forever and a day to patch them, or in some cases not patching them at all. Tell them you won't stand for it, and will never buy another game again. Or, you could quit assuming that you have some devine right to satisfaction and realize that even unfinished drivel is enough to make you life better....

(sorry, had to continue the chain)

techumseh · November 20, 2001, 01:58

It's too bad there are so many self-depreciating morons who think we should be grateful for any crumbs a gaming corporation (or any other corporation for that matter) cares to drop. Having said that, I believe there is some significant consumer resistance developing amoung the more politically and commercially aware civ fans. Finding a way to communicate that to the potential Christmas market is the trick, especially given the sycophantic reviews of most electronic gaming mags and sites. How about someone setting up an 'anti-fan' site, complete with some game reviews based on actual play throughs by actual civ fans?

monkspider · November 20, 2001, 02:04

For every loony www.ihateciv.com site that is created, there will be hundreds of sites like Apolyton. May I respectfully suggest you go back to your "l33t" FPS games, "d00d".

Setsuna · November 20, 2001, 02:06

Unless someone can give me a reason otherwise, I place the blame squarely on Infogrames, not Firaxis.

It's too bad they don't have the same publisher as Blizzard.

Rasbelin · November 20, 2001, 02:20

Those who want to punish Firaxis and Infogrames, could for instance stop buying their products and start a campaign for better products. Then there's a second oprtion ( IMO a much better one

); burning your Civ III copies and dancing raindance around the fire. After that, stop posting on ASCF.

Frito · November 20, 2001, 02:21

Civ3 is a great game. It has some bugs, but nothing I've seen that is unpatchable.

techumseh · November 20, 2001, 02:26

Quote:

Originally posted by monkspider
For every loony www.ihateciv.com site that is created, there will be hundreds of sites like Apolyton. May I respectfully suggest you go back to your "l33t" FPS games, "d00d".

What makes you think that someone who checks out Apolyton first would buy the game? And what's "l33t" FPS games, "d00d"?

kittenOFchaos · November 20, 2001, 02:28

Civ3 is a WONDERFUL game...but has bugs...

Not like CS...it is a WONDERFUL game...and doesn't have bugs -EXCEPT FOR

Thinks should go nuclear if we don't get patches that sort out proper concern AND NOT JUST PERSONAL PREFERENCES...we need a decent editor that can allow us to make of civ3 what we will!

t0mme · November 20, 2001, 02:37

You lame f*ckers!
It's easy to complain, isnt't it? It's obvious that you all don't know how it is to make a damn good game as Civ III. First all the Firaxis-programmers spends years of developing and programming. And when they're finished, all the "fans" do is complaining. Don't you suckers know that a game without bugs is impossible to make, especially when it has to run under Windows ****.
A real Civ-gamer respects this new Sid Meier creation. If you don't like it, you're not true Civ-gamers. I started playing Civ from the early beginning. I know everything about Civ II and I even played Civ: CTP (it's not a Sid Meier game, but still fun to play). And I must say; Sid Meier rocks and you so-called "fans" are the biggest idiots alive!

Kaesar · November 20, 2001, 03:08

huh

everybody take a deep breath

now my little rant:

hardware compatibility:
I personally haven't had any yet. I could see that this could be a frustrating problem as I have experienced it with other games. But just because there is a problem by no means does this mean it is wide spread.

It's like the news. Most of the time bad things gets reported on the news, but by no means is this a proportional representation of what's going on in the world. So even if you've read 50 messages about hardware incompatibilities it doesn't mean Firaxis sold a bad product. Have patience, send a nice email to tech support and eventually most people will be happy.

game balance:
I believe you're refering to the fact that outdated units are defeating modern units. Yes, this is unrealistic, but I rather enjoy this aspect. In civ2 I built tons of stealth fighters/bombers, howitzer, tanks during endgame. There was no way I could lose. It pretty much turned into what I called "continental lawmowing exercise" Now you can't just rely on this but have to figure out new strategies for military conquest. There's been quite a lot of posts about this in apolyton so I think you should check it out. I find it makes the game a lot more interesting now.

bugs:
I really haven't encoutered any bugs yet, although there does seem to be a resource leak in the game that makes it take forever when I try to quit the game. It seems the length of time is dependent on how long I have been playing.

So what am I trying to say. I am rather enjoying this game and I am sorry to hear that it has been the opposite for you. But if you really feel like punishing Firaxis, then don't buy their next game, just don't expect everybody to follow your stance.

----------------------
Remember life is gooooooood

Blisterz · November 20, 2001, 03:10

Quote:

Originally posted by Baloo
Here are some ideas from your humble servant:

--Post desultory posts on Firaxis to every newsgroups in the Internet. Maybe some members of alt.homosexual or alt.sos.Kiribati will get the message and join your cause.
-

Was that intended to be a homophobic statment? If so then i guess there is no reason to read anymore of your postes 'cause we know that there is little to no logic behind your statments.

Sorry but had to speak up

Cavalier_13 · November 20, 2001, 03:24

You know, the original poster has a point.

Games companies, not just Firaxis, but all of them save the rare exception put out the game after it is 75% complete. The final beta testing is being done by the paying customer and that is just wrong. This is true, and you just need to look outside of the gaming industry for examples.

If GM or Ford or Honda would produce a car that is 75% finished, consumers would be in an uproar. Since a greater percentage of the population consume cars than PC Games, then for sure their voices would ring out louder.

I myself am beginning to be quite fustrated with the WHOLE industry of gaming. What can I do? Nothing, unfortuneatly since I am a gamer, and I find SOME satisfaction in them.

Because I have SOME enjoyment, does that remove MY right to complain and criticize the publishers and the developers for games that are released as betas? No, it doesn;t. MY cash goes towards these games, and as a consumer, I am allowed to expect a better product.

This game is very good, but as good as it is, it has flaws, and many of them could and should have been caught during beta testing. Air Superiority that is broken, Theory of Evolution wonder that works 10% of the time (in 10 games, I got the 2 promised advantages only once), over expansive civs that know exactly where every hole on the map lie, AI units that can see my subs but I cannot see theirs, a woefully SLOW performance as the game advances due to so many reasons it is hard to pinpoint, all of these are bugs that could have been caught in beta. Let's not forget the doozie, the 1,000,000 per turn gold bug. I mean, this is BASIC bug squashing.

The rest is pure gold for me, and for many people. The reason many of us complain and ask for publishers/developers to be held accountable is because the resources ARE out there to create a superiour product.

Game magazines are at the mercy of all these publishers/developers because if they know a magazine will give an ACCURATE portrait of their product, then it will sell less....so they don't give that magazine the advertising revenues and offer it to their competitor that will give them that 5 star review. Again, the gamer is the one to pay for this. That is why forums like this are so great. They allow all civ/game players to exchange their ideas and their dissapointments without the need for partisan reviews.

I, as a gamer, will NEVER be 100% happy with a game, but their is a level where where the flaws are outclassed by the features... but unfortunately, it's not quite there with CIV 3. But I know Sid and the team will patch the game to there. In the meantime, I have a right to be heard.

To use an old phrase, "The squeaky wheel gets the oil".....well, assuming you have The Wheel and Oil in your influence sphere.

Cavalier

techumseh · November 20, 2001, 03:29

Quote:

Originally posted by t0mme
You lame f*ckers!
It's easy to complain, isnt't it? It's obvious that you all don't know how it is to make a damn good game as Civ III. First all the Firaxis-programmers spends years of developing and programming. And when they're finished, all the "fans" do is complaining. Don't you suckers know that a game without bugs is impossible to make, especially when it has to run under Windows ****.
A real Civ-gamer respects this new Sid Meier creation. If you don't like it, you're not true Civ-gamers. I started playing Civ from the early beginning. I know everything about Civ II and I even played Civ: CTP (it's not a Sid Meier game, but still fun to play). And I must say; Sid Meier rocks and you so-called "fans" are the biggest idiots alive!

Sad.

Setsuna · November 20, 2001, 03:35

Quote:

Originally posted by techumseh

Sad.

Scary too. I'm going to have nightmares tonight about being unable to properly enunciate my points.

Dis · November 20, 2001, 04:06

The Templar · November 20, 2001, 04:20

Rasbelin - weren't you the whiney kid who cried and cried about your limited edition and how unfair it all was? Stick your head in your cookie tin, shut the f*** up, and get the hell out of these forums. Your the last person who should throw stones. Go play with your cookies they way I play with your mom.

And Civ3 is a damn good game. It has some serious bugs (like air superiority and ways to deal with corruption), but its fun so far in my book.

Dis · November 20, 2001, 04:27

lol

all LE games are ripoffs. My brother got the diablo2 LE. whooppee. a cd with the music from the game.

worthless

stop wasting your money and complaining about it

but in case it isn't clear.

LE is for suckers

Blisterz · November 20, 2001, 04:34

Quote:

Originally posted by Cavalier_13

If GM or Ford or Honda would produce a car that is 75% finished, consumers would be in an uproar. Since a greater percentage of the population consume cars than PC Games, then for sure their voices would ring out louder.

Cavalier

Well, a 75% finished car would kill someone, no patching no expansions nothing, just dead...

A game can be fixed and can be made to work better.
As long as you don't have to pay for the patch then I don't see what the big deal is.

Just my 2 cents...

Dis · November 20, 2001, 05:31

they do produce unfinished vehicles

at least the american companies do (yes even my dodge truck had to be taken in a couple of times for manufaturing defects- a seal on the tranmission- linkage on my steering column)

and Firaxis is an american company- do you see where this is going?

I want better analogies than that for your silly arguments!!

conclusion: american companies suck ass. buy european games if you want perfect games (hehe- like black and white)

Deathwalker · November 20, 2001, 06:14

I agree Civ 3 is a good neh great game, Some of the ideas are great and way better than CTP. But they did not finish the job, no matter what you say we got a beta and now they cant fix all the little problems, so we either wait for for Ultimate Civ 3 or make do

MarkG · November 20, 2001, 06:40

Quote:

Originally posted by techumseh
an 'anti-fan' site, complete with some game reviews based on actual play throughs by actual civ fans?

you mean like the ones posted on this site?

JerryK72 · November 20, 2001, 08:39

I completed my first full game of CIV III last night. No real problems. Maybe just a few minor bugs, but nothing to go boycotting a company for.. CIV III is a great game in its current state. After a couple patches, It'll be awesome. But if you want to boycott the company, go right ahead. So I guess from this point on you should have no more complaints about the game, because obviously you stopped playing it. Which is a good thing so we don't have to read your nonsense anymore...

Freeze · November 20, 2001, 08:56

Help me... my browser window is turning into a skinner box...