Do you feel cheated?

Faeelin · November 20, 2001, 20:20

Considering that the scenario editor was the main rason I bought the game, I do.

ColdWizard · November 20, 2001, 21:53

no, i knew there was no MP before i bought it

reds4ever · November 20, 2001, 23:10

no, i got it on Morpheus (nice manual in PDF) and i'll buy it when it's fully patched with MP, i got caught out paying twice with Civ2, not again

CyberGnu · November 20, 2001, 23:19

Nope, returned it to the store a few days later.

Might download a warez version to check out if some of the mods make it worth playing, though.

Bakunine · November 20, 2001, 23:32

No i don't feel cheated.

Im playing since 1st November with a warez version and will buy original game as soon as patch comes out or i ocasionaly pass threw a shelf with game if that happens before.

Just for the time i have already played the game it deserves my hard earned money. And it will get it.

ham50 · November 20, 2001, 23:58

I'm sure the makers of the game enjoy that fact that you hate the game so much that you will only download it from the Internet. That will make them work so much harder knowing that people like you won't buy the game.

reds4ever · November 21, 2001, 00:07

i WILL buy the game....when it's finished!

games i have downloaded recently:

europa - tried liked and bought
AOE2 - tried did n't like, deleted
Civ3 - tried, will buy when they finish it
Worms - tried liked and bought
MaxPayne - tried did n't like, deleted

can you please tell me where i have cost a developer money that was DUE to them?

CyberGnu · November 21, 2001, 03:09

Yeah, I feel the same way. HOMM3 I downloaded, loved and bought. I've since then bought the upgrades, as well.

Civ2, same thing. Then I lent it to a friend, the guy moved, then I moved... Downloaded a new warez version, lent that to a friend, he moved to Mexico... Does anyone know if I can buy a new version of Civ2 for $10 or less?

If a patch comes out that removes the most glaring flaws of CivIII I might buy it as well...

z0dd · November 21, 2001, 03:21

I feel cheated that they purposely left out the mission editor and multiplayer so they can suck another $50 from the consumers. It also makes us wait an extra 10 months for what we should get in the first package.

A big FU!

Dis · November 21, 2001, 03:25

not if it is included in a free patch.

next question

Monoriu · November 21, 2001, 03:29

Do I feel cheated?

Nope, not at all.

Roland Ehnström · November 21, 2001, 04:28

No, I'm having bags of fun!

-- Roland

Zanzin · November 21, 2001, 04:52

In answer to the question of this thread, no, I don't feel cheated. It's a great SP game

David Murray · November 21, 2001, 04:56

I love the way you warez kiddies get so indignant and self-righteous when people speak against you for being electronic thieves. Thou dost protest too much?

Robert Plomp · November 21, 2001, 05:27

Quote:

Considering that the scenario editor was the main rason I bought the game, I do.

how can de scenario editor ever be the main reason ?
Pherhaps you prefer civ scenarios above the normal civ game, but even in that case the scenario editor isn't the main reason.

I do not feel cheated. I dislike it though that the turns flow that slowly. I expect in 3 years nobody will notice that anymore though

The game rocks.

Deathwalker · November 21, 2001, 05:51

I feel sad to admit it, but yes I feel cheated. They removed the part of the game that was the main reason it lasted so long

Robert Plomp · November 21, 2001, 06:33

Quote:

I feel sad to admit it, but yes I feel cheated. They removed the part of the game that was the main reason it lasted so long

pherhaps to you, but I'm sure majority of the people kept playing normal games. (= non scenarios) and creating the ultimate challenge by occ or deity+5 etc. etc.

mp was a big factor in that as well (which will be added later)

campmajor! · November 21, 2001, 06:47

I agree with Cybershy. I kept on playing civ2 the last 5 years because every game you start is different and new. So that is SP and not scenario's or MP.

So the answer to the thread's question is no. I like this game a lot and it will keep me busy for quite some time!

By the way, I don't understand why people like scenario's that much. Personally I didn't like them at all, because the lack of freedom in your decisions. I like the empire building thing instead of replaying some historical thing....

Strollen · November 21, 2001, 06:54

Ya, I feel cheated. I spent $60 for LE, and I have only spent 100+ hours playing. So that is like $.50/hour for entertainment, really a rip off.

Not to menition the game isn't nearly as a good as sex, as exciting as a sky diving, or even as engrossing as a the first 30 minutes of Saving Private Ryan.

How dare Sid puts his name on the game that isn't like the most enjoyable thing on the planet. Really he should be ashamed :-)

MarkG · November 21, 2001, 07:18

Quote:

Originally posted by Strollen
Ya, I feel cheated. I spent $60 for LE, and I have only spent 100+ hours playing. So that is like $.50/hour for entertainment, really a rip off.

Not to menition the game isn't nearly as a good as sex, as exciting as a sky diving, or even as engrossing as a the first 30 minutes of Saving Private Ryan.

How dare Sid puts his name on the game that isn't like the most enjoyable thing on the planet. Really he should be ashamed :-)

darn, i should have added that roftlmao smiley
anyway, here's the equivalent

Prlwofsky · November 21, 2001, 07:27

Cheated is only possible if you only wanted the game to make scenario's. They did promise a great editor after all.

The absence of MP was known relatively early (although we had to wait for some time before we got confirmation). So maybe dissapointed about MP, thats true.

But what remains is a great game the wreaks havoc on my social life and steals precious hours of sleap each day

Cheated is what you feel when you first started CTP up hoping it would be CIV3

, it is not what you should feel when you are playing and looking at the clock and feel suprised that it's almost time to go to work

So I'm hoping Firaxis will fix the 'side issues', but CIV3 remains a great game.

Baloo · November 21, 2001, 07:33

Warez for some of them is like a demo. They buy it if they like the game, don't if they don't like it. Surprisingly, I have no problem with that as long as they do it "for preview" only. It's their loss if they don't buy retail games at the end, because: 1) Warez often don't support MP gaming over the Internet - usually needs unique keys to play over the Internet. Take note Firaxis: MultiPlayer suit is a tool against piracy 2) Subsequent game patches will invalidate some warez versions.

Ok in my view they got the broadband, they can cheat a little as long as they stand by their principle: free preview, buy later. I know some of you might feel cheated, disgusted or perhaps a little jealous (c'mon admit it) but heck... it's a jungle outthere.

wotan321 · November 21, 2001, 08:36

Since consumers were duped and misled all the way down the road leading up to Civ3's release, you GOTTA feel cheated.

Sure the gameplay is fun and an improvement, but its been YEARS since Civ2. No, they didn't have to make any improvements, they coulda just left Civ2 alone and not even bothered with Civ3. But the did sell us a load of good they DID NOT DELIVER.

Its unbelievable that they could put in hours and hours and hours of gameplay like they purport in their marketing, and not catch the Air Superiority or Scientist bugs. THEY HAD TO KNOW THEY WERE THERE!!

On their website they stated "We want to be there for the Scenario creation community" so they release the game with ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to create scenarios with. When they were taking preorders for this game the had to release before Christmas, they should have been honest and said "There is no MP, there is no Scenario editor tools, there are no scenarios, and the game is unplayable in the modern era".

Just kidding, there is no way they would have been that honest. Either Firaxis was told to shut up and help Infogrames market this unfinished product to make as much money as possible, or they joyfully participated in the duplicity. Either way, I kinda feel sorry for professionals who seemed so eager to please the diehard fans of this game series. I will never view Sid or Firaxis with the same respect I had before. We got cheated and its sad.

codemast01 · November 21, 2001, 13:37

Technically they didn't mislead us. They did add new stuff. They did add culture. They did redo the trade system. They did add more diplomatic options. However what they forgot to mention was that half the tech tree has been remove; there is nothingness beyond the modern age (the lack of slighly future techs like nanites or underwater cities either shows total lack of imagination or total lack of effort on the part of Friaxis); diplomatic options are not anything that hasn't already been seen in CTP II.

kmj · November 21, 2001, 14:08

I don't feel cheated at all. I feel tired because I stayed up til 5:30 am playing the game.

However what they forgot to mention was that half the tech tree has been remove; there is nothingness beyond the modern age (the lack of slighly future techs like nanites or underwater cities either shows total lack of imagination or total lack of effort on the part of Friaxis); diplomatic options are not anything that hasn't already been seen in CTP II.

Though it would have been nice to have more techs, I really like the new model of advances, and the idea of "eras". Now, I really don't see how the fact that they didn't reimplement things that were already done in Civ2 (future techs), CTP(underwater cities), and CTP2(diplomacy -lets just ignore the facts that (a) it was vastly expanded from Civ2 (b) Civ3 design began before CTP2 was even released (c) CTP2 is a different game by a different company and is in no way a predecessor to Civ3) can be considered a "lack of imagination".

There are so many subtle points (way beyond the combat system and culture, which aren't subtle) which make this a very different from, and better game (IMO) than, Civ2.

But obviously since I had no irrational expectations about what I was getting, I'm must just be a spineless anklebiting Fireaxis "fundie" who has no self-respect. Ah well, at least I'm having fun, and that's what's important to me.

Akka · November 21, 2001, 14:30

Quote:

Originally posted by kmj Now, I really don't see how the fact that they didn't reimplement things that were already done in Civ2 (future techs), CTP(underwater cities), and CTP2(diplomacy -

Underwater cities and deep diplomacy were part of Alpha Centauri, who was made by the same team. Though a part of the team left during the development, it's anyway incredible that stuff like the UN, diplomacy, sea improvement and terraformation are inferior (or even completely inexistant) compared to a 2/3 years old product made by the same people.
I just don't understand.

kmj · November 21, 2001, 14:51

Quote:

Originally posted by Akka le Vil

Underwater cities and deep diplomacy were part of Alpha Centauri, who was made by the same team. Though a part of the team left during the development, it's anyway incredible that stuff like the UN, diplomacy, sea improvement and terraformation are inferior (or even completely inexistant) compared to a 2/3 years old product made by the same people.
I just don't understand.

okay, you have a point that they were part of a previous release by fireaxis.. don't remember underwater cities from SMAC, but I didn't play that too much. My main point was that reimplementing previous things can't be seen as imaginative... though codemast01 does also mention effort.

I really think they chose to expend their effort in different areas because Civ3 and SMAC are supposed to different feels. (I said different types of games before, and was told "what are you talking about, they're both real-time strategy!!!", so I'll try to be more specific this time.) SMAC is sci-fi, post modern: hence all the "future" stuff. I don't miss that at all in Civ3 because that's not what civ3 is about. Same with terraforming, terraforming on the scale of civ3 is much less feasable than it would be in some future world.

Diplomacy- SMAC was about different factions who had broken apart... it just seems to me that the relations between faction leaders would much tighter than those between different civilizations, hence the greater emphasis on diplomacy. Do I think the UN victory could have been improved upon? Yes. I do. Could the diplomacy have been better? Yes. Would it have been simple to use the code for diplomacy from SMAC in Civ3? I have no idea; knowing code, sometimes it is, sometimes it isn't. Knowing the gaming industry, the code probably wasn't written with that in mind. Also note, it seems to me that this was a different team of programmers from those who wrote SMAC. Ever try reading someone else's code? Not always a walk in the park!

Sea improvement? Do we really need it? We have harbors and offshore platforms (the latter I've never gotten around to using I'll admit)... I like that better than having to build some "hydro-worker" and more micromanagement.

That's just my take. It is a different game from SMAC, designed with different things in mind. I don't miss most of the stuff from smac because I found SMAC to be aesthetically lacking, in comparison to Civ2&3 (it has a completely different feel), so I never played SMAC very much. Maybe a dozen games.

Could diplomacy (and many many aspects) have been better? Of course. But given their deadline, I think they did a great job. About bugs: I don't think any are gamebreakers, and I don't think that cumulatively they break the game. either. Maybe they knew about some of them, maybe not. Doesn't change my opinion of Fireaxis, knowing that they have to work within constraints imposed upon them.

edit: s/see/sea

Boracks · November 21, 2001, 15:13

Do I feel cheated? No. Not at $50 Canadian (~$31 US).

Am I disappointed? Mildly.

SMAC was an improvement in the style of the 4X CIV type of game. I expected CIV3 to take some of the SMAC ideas, put them in a CIV setting and improve things overall. On the balance, I see a good game but not an overall step up.

Reading a number of the threads here, my gut feeling is what the game is lacking is POLISH. It has a rough feel to it. (And, yes, some have already said unfinished.)

But I'm still losing too much sleep over it.

Oh, and cheated? That would be when I bought 'Star General'.

I couldn't give it away so the CD is now used in the garden to scare away birds.

Boracks

reds4ever · November 21, 2001, 17:33

dissident, do you honestly think MP support will be a FREE patch? Civ's track record indicates otherwise, i payed twice for Civ2, once bitten...

peolpe who steal software using warez, it's their choice, but i don't do it, i just reserve the right to sample what i'm paying for, would you buy a shirt without seeing it first?(remember Civ3 had no demo or public beta)

as someone else in the thread has said the easiest way to stop stealing is to make the patches incompatible with warez versions

Par4 · November 21, 2001, 17:40

I'm gonna have to say yeah

The gameplay is ok, but I still perfer EU, I really got the game for scenarios. I bought Civ2 just for scenarios, and I bought Civ3 just for scenarios. Unfortunately I'm not going to get any at this moment.