Combat Game Balance

Pyrodrew · November 20, 2001, 20:33

For better game balance in the next patch... what are your thoughts for ground, naval, & air units?

Roland Ehnström · November 21, 2001, 04:41

Hmm, how about a multi-choice poll about this?
-- Roland

Deathwalker · November 21, 2001, 06:50

How about they fix it so that planes can sink ships. Or are the naval unit supposed to be magical naval units

Grumbold · November 21, 2001, 08:24

A tank unit is not one tank. An air unit is not one plane. A naval unit is not one ship. Otherwise we would all be fighting with the forces of one very small banana republic. That's why you can't destroy ship units completely with bombardment - not even Pearl Harbour was a 100% sink rate

Akka · November 21, 2001, 08:39

I agree that a tank is not a single tank, or that a plane is not a single plane.
Ships, thought, are in my opinion only one, at best 2-3 ships. I mean, how many carrier there is actually in the world ? UK has 1 or 2, France has 1 retiring and 1 coming, USA may have 5-6, 10 at best. And for Pearl Harbor, yes it was not a 100 % sink rate, but some ships DID sink

And remember about the Coral Sea and Midway, called the "battle beyond the horizon" because actually not a ship of one fleet could see a ship of the other fleet : all the fight was made by aircraft.
Bomber can wear torpedoes and bombs, I think that they should be able to sink a ship. Not 100 % of the time, but sometimes.

Grumbold · November 21, 2001, 10:16

Now count the number of destroyers in use round the world and reconsider.

Its always going to be a trade off between game balance, realism and playability. I personally believe Firaxis have got it right because it means you have to have at least a small navy to destroy the enemy navy, but if you get your bombers in first their damaged fleet will (very very slowly) retreat off to repair, not hang around bombarding with one HP left.

Wrong_shui · November 21, 2001, 12:07

The current naval combat does not reflect real life.

Im not saying it should, im not saying it shouldnt.

Im not saying its broken and im not saying its fine.

What i am saying though is Ishould at least have an option in the game or in the editor that allows bombardment to kill.

Akka · November 22, 2001, 05:12

Quote:

Originally posted by Wrong_shui
The current naval combat does not reflect real life.

Im not saying it should, im not saying it shouldnt.

Im not saying its broken and im not saying its fine.

What i am saying though is Ishould at least have an option in the game or in the editor that allows bombardment to kill.

Amen.

Deathwalker · November 22, 2001, 05:31

The only thing I think is unfair is the inability to sink ships with air power, no matter what way you cut it this is not fair

Monoriu · November 22, 2001, 05:40

"The only thing I think is unfair is the inability to sink ships with air power, no matter what way you cut it this is not fair "

Ok. Personally I am not bothered by the inability of air units to sink ships. And I am not going to argue for either case here.

I just want to know, why does it bother you (and quite a few others)?

Gameplay reasons? Realism? Don't want to build a lot of ships?

Just curious.

Akka · November 22, 2001, 08:32

Quote:

Originally posted by Monoriu
"The only thing I think is unfair is the inability to sink ships with air power, no matter what way you cut it this is not fair "

Ok. Personally I am not bothered by the inability of air units to sink ships. And I am not going to argue for either case here.

I just want to know, why does it bother you (and quite a few others)?

Gameplay reasons? Realism? Don't want to build a lot of ships?

Just curious.

Personnally, realism. And frustration when I have a whole fleet ready, but that will take three turns to come sink this transport while it will be able to unload on my coast the next turn, while it's in the operationnal range of two full carriers and three cities. It's itchy that 40 bombing missions can't sink this darn transport

And well, I know I should patrol my coast rather than concentrate my fleet at the same place, but I just like to have a big fleet. That's purely personnal, I like to form big fleet rather than make dozens of ships patrolling.

Anjin Sushi · November 22, 2001, 08:56

It's itchy that 40 bombing missions can't sink this darn transport
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I couldn't agree more! - or a darn galley for that matter

Deathwalker · November 22, 2001, 09:00

I always liked having a large navy, so I want it to have some level of realism. I like naval power and I want to be able to use to bring a nation to it's knees

zapperio · November 22, 2001, 09:05

Quote:

Originally posted by Anjin Sushi
It's itchy that 40 bombing missions can't sink this darn transport
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I couldn't agree more! - or a darn galley for that matter

Remember, it is offset by the fact that the navy is unable to fight back. Fair deal, and has a strategic significance. Use the new features a bit before dismissing them.

Zap

korn469 · November 22, 2001, 10:43

where is the option for more powerful nukes?!

what kind of poll is this?!!!

i do think that air units should be more powerful however i think that firaxis has gotten the navy to aircraft balance fairly right

and like zapperio ship in real life are loaded with AA, and are more than capable of shooting down aircraft

anyways i have modded the game to give it a better combat balance, check it out

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthrea...8&pagenumber=1

Akka · November 22, 2001, 11:03

Quote:

Originally posted by zapperio

Remember, it is offset by the fact that the navy is unable to fight back. Fair deal, and has a strategic significance. Use the new features a bit before dismissing them.

Zap

Of course, to not imbalance the game, ships should be able to fire back each time a plane try to bomb them. I mean, ship with guns of course.
I don't think it's overpowered to allow plane to shoot down a galley even if this one can't counter-strike

Add increased air defense for carriers and AEGIS cruiser, then you'll need combined arms on seas too : submarines/battlecruisers to attack carriers/AEGIS, planes to attack submarines/battlecruisers, AEGIS/Carrier to protect from planes.
And destroyers as multifunction tools. Not as good as are the specialized others in any task, but able to do all of them.

n.c. · November 22, 2001, 13:45

So let me see if I understand: a problem with past games (air vs. navy) was solved not by simply making the combat a bit more even, but pretending that planes cannot sink ships?

This is bad enough. Worse is that many people don't seem to question it at all. Worse still is that some actually defend the decision.

It's okay to think Firaxis is imperfect.