Newbies just lack enough knowledge about civilization games to post here

[Ludwig]

Since this thread was closed after one reply, I have to repost the header to be able to respond.

I suppose I am a "newbie". I was enough of a know-nothing that I bought CtP FIRST. I bought CivII SECOND. To this day, I am willing to assert that anyone who plays CtP before playing CivII will not have the virulent anti-CtP hatred that is the dominant spirit on these boards...They'll concede that CivII is better, but they'll have a fond memory of the first, innocent days with CtP. How's that for a newbie sentiment? And. besides, I haven't posted a lot. It doesn't really matter how much you play the game, or how well you play it, because the only way to raise your title here is to post a lot. And I certainly haven't done that. So I guess those two things pretty much make me a "newbie"...

But you know what? At root, the Civ games are wargames. It's as simple as that. And not very advanced ones. There's a research cycle and a production cycle - true. They're pretty primitive compared to the production cycles in some of the old counter games like "War in the West" or even "Rise and Fall of the Third Reich", though. OK, SMAC had unit customization - but you don't have anywhere near the overall force flexibility there that you do if you want to sit down and whip out a scenario for "Operational Art of War". You've got something that passes for diplomacy - but "Diplomacy" had more advanced diplomacy. CivIII FINALLY has resource requirements, which I guess constitute a rudimentary supply system [of course, I can still send my units deep into the AI's territory and have them feed themselves for hundreds of years, but why nitpick?]; still, virtually every other wargame ever designed has a better supply system. I was once fortunate enough to get to view [not even participate; it was a privelege just to view this] a full-blown "deployment" of "Campaign for North Africa", which is probably the only truly realistic wargame ever produced, since the single most important unit in it - dwarfing all others - is the truck. Now that was a game with a true appreciation for supply. The Civ series of games are fairly primitive when you get right down to it in just about every area. They COMBINE a lot of different areas, and do so ambitiously, but they don't do it rigorously.

I am not saying these things to disparage Civ. Because Civ is FUN - easily more fun that any of the other games I've described. I've spent more time playing CivII, CtP, and CivIII then I've spent on any other games - actually, more time than all of the others put together, probably. Quite often, the fact that the Civ games take less complex and less detailed approaches to these issues make the gamplay more elegant. I'm merely talking about these other games to make the point that enjoying Civ is not about KNOWLEDGE. It's not about historical knowledge - since there have been much more accurate and detailed simulation games made. It's not about military knowledge - for the same reason. It's not about gameplay skill - since there are more challenging wargames out there to learn and to master. Civ is about fun.

The entire concept of a "newbie" is therefore, frankly, sort of meaningless. This has to be the case, pretty much by definition, in instances where knowledge is secondary to enjoyment. Anyone who is out of the stage where they ask questions about what to do to get their cities out of disorder, or where they ask what the little slider-things are with the percentages on them, has arrived at the level of knowledge necessary to comment on the game mechanics. It's not rocket science - if it were, the series would not have sold as many copies as it has. If someone makes a stupid point in an argument here, they've made a stupid point - but it probably will have nothing to do with the fact that they haven't played enough to get enough "experience" to see the hidden truth. It's more likely that something about your subjective perspective makes their opinions seem poorly formed - and that's it. Or that they're just DUMB - that happens once in a while too, you know.

[Dis]

only a newbie would play CTP first

I knew someone would take the bait. so dense

[Dis]

and yes those wargames surpass civ in many ways. I agree

but what people don't realize is, civ games aren't made to appease hardcore war gamers. They are made for the general public to enjoy. These are people that don't play wargames. So it is unreasonable to expect makers of civ game to satisfy the hardcore gamers desires.

[Alexander's Horse]

Originally posted by Ludwig

The entire concept of a "newbie" is therefore, frankly, sort of meaningless.

To a newbie.

[TCO]

Look you're obviously a bright, mature guy who knows games. Welcome aboard.

FYI: The term newbie refers to people who are new to the board.


Some of them don't spend any time reading any posts and just spew new threads. They also don't read stuff in other parts of the site, which might help them too.

[TCO]

Newbie:

One more thing. When a thread gets locked, you're not supposed to start a new one to respond. Although I agree that the urge can be overpowering.

[Biggles]

I haven't been to the Forum for about ten years.
Does that make me a Newbie?

[Alexander's Horse]

Jesus, hello Biggles - where have you been?

[Oerdin]

Ludwig,
Kudos on your reply. Personally, I think this whole "I've been here for xxx number of years" is rather pointless. What we should really be looking at is the quality of a person's contributions to our board.

[Rasbelin]

So were should the line go between "real" Apolytoners and not so experienced ones? Personal avatar? Prince status? Or what?

[Alexander's Horse]

Originally posted by Rasbelin
So were should the line go between "real" Apolytoners and not so experienced ones? Personal avatar? Prince status? Or what?

All I'll say is you'll know it when you reach it

[Rasbelin]

Originally posted by Biggles
I haven't been to the Forum for about ten years.

Are you sure it's ten years...?

[Biggles]

Alexander's Horse.

G'day.

I got banned for some reason.
I could never find out why.

All contact with the web site just bounced....e-mail too.

I have been sailing around the World on a yacht instead.
The banning was a blessing in disguise.

[Dis]

funny how this thread hasn't been locked. So I'm guessing it is OK to start a new thread to respond to a locked thread then?

[TCO]

It's an affirmative action thing, Dissie..

[Mannamagnus]

Originally posted by Ludwig
At root, the Civ games are wargames.

I think civ games are empire building- or god games. But that might be the pacifist in me speaking.

I also think that it's pathetic that some people consider themselves superior because they've posted an X amount of messages.
I'm affraid the only direct connection related to the quantity of their output is the quality of their life.

I have spoken.

[reds4ever]

.....pathetic and sad, it seems that some people define themselves (and others) by their post status on a message board for a computer game!!

[Grim Legacy]

Heresy. Civ is not a wargame, obviously. Only a n00b could conceive such a ridiculous notion .

[Rasbelin]

Originally posted by Alexander's Horse

All I'll say is you'll know it when you reach it

Excellent! So I assume that I have reached that level. Rasbelin = an active Apolytoner.

[TechWins]

Some of them don't spend any time reading any posts and just spew new threads. They also don't read stuff in other parts of the site, which might help them too.

The 'some' newbies post so many (pointless) threads that nobody can read all of the posts/threads. It's absolutely ridiculous on the amount of threads that are posted (at least the first five pages have threads just from the past two days). It reminds me when the Civ3 - Civilizations forum was opened; too many posters (mainly newbies at the time) were posting (pointless) threads about Civ3 civilizations in this forum, so the Civ3 - Civilizations forum was opened. Now a lot of these pointless threads should be posted in other forums, such as Help, Strategy, etc..., as AH previously pointed out. What has to be done is for a moderator (that would be you Mark or Ming) to step up and start moving these threads to the appropiate place. Maybe you don't have enough time to do that, so maybe another moderator should be appointed to Civ3.

So were should the line go between "real" Apolytoners and not so experienced ones? Personal avatar? Prince status? Or what?

The ways to rid yourself of the newbie title:

1)Being a King or higher (regardless of registration date)
2)Registration date of 1999 or prior (no matter what the PC is)
3)Registration date of 2000 and being a Prince
4)Registration date of 2001 and having a personal avatar or being capable of having a personal avatar (some people have 500 posts or more and still don't have a personal avatar because they don't want one)

[I know that it is possible to be under two categories; in fact category 1 is pointless with the other three categories being present]

If you fall under any of those four categories you are NOT a newbie, otherwise you ARE a newbie. Also, note that if you were a "lurker" in 1999, and you have just now registered, you are still a newbie.

[sachmo71]

Originally posted by Rasbelin


Excellent! So I assume that I have reached that level. Rasbelin = an active Apolytoner.

Dude, what is that on your nose?

[Freeze]

blah..hello?

A newbie is someone who acts like a newbie regardless of when they started posting, how many times they have posted, etc.

Acting like a newbie entails doing dumb things that would prevent one from being accepted by the regulars, rather than attempting to learn how the regulars act (although having decent regular role models is needed).

Most forums have a set of simple rules that go somethign like this:

1. Think before you post.
1a. Make sure you post is appropriate for the forum you're posting to.
2. Do not flame unless you are in the OT.
3. No spamming unless you are in the OT.
4. Due to high forum load, if you post a new thread on a subject that is being discussed in an existing thread, your thread will be closed.
5. All must worship the mods.

People unable to follow simple rules like those will be considered newbies no matter what forum they post to.

[Rasbelin]

Originally posted by sachmo71

Dude, what is that on your nose?

Hey, don't try to be a big shot, sachmo71!

I have been an ACS member much longer than you and I have posted more than 15 times more than you have (782 versus 51). So pay some respect to the more high ranked members.

[Zizka]

Wow a few of you "regulars" really know how to make people feel at home. If being "regular" entails a spirit of elitism, snobbery and sanctimonious flaming.. I'll be happily considered a newbie. I laugh at the fact that many so-called regulars who fit under these criteria, who flame, spam, make OT comments and make threads such as this one have the gall to make such posts.

I also notice that no-where was it mentioned that there was ANY knowledge criteria for civ games. Thus ignorance (which newbies often get trashed for) is thus a valid behaviour for both regulars and newbies

Thanx for making all of us "newbies" feel right at home.

Z

(dons asbests suit.. and mans the barricades)

Newbies of the world unite!


Z

[Biggles]

This place is way too unpleasant for me.

Bye

[MORON]

If you want to get rid of the newbie title.... talk about being EVC's dl and Civnation's crazy bible preaching should help.

....(If I had my account from the MBT thread times....)

[Rolfski]

Originally posted by TechWins


The 'some' newbies post so many (pointless) threads that nobody can read all of the posts/threads. It's absolutely ridiculous on the amount of threads that are posted (at least the first five pages have threads just from the past two days). It reminds me when the Civ3 - Civilizations forum was opened; too many posters (mainly newbies at the time) were posting (pointless) threads about Civ3 civilizations in this forum, so the Civ3 - Civilizations forum was opened. Now a lot of these pointless threads should be posted in other forums, such as Help, Strategy, etc..., as AH previously pointed out. What has to be done is for a moderator (that would be you Mark or Ming) to step up and start moving these threads to the appropiate place. Maybe you don't have enough time to do that, so maybe another moderator should be appointed to Civ3.



The ways to rid yourself of the newbie title:

1)Being a King or higher (regardless of registration date)
2)Registration date of 1999 or prior (no matter what the PC is)
3)Registration date of 2000 and being a Prince
4)Registration date of 2001 and having a personal avatar or being capable of having a personal avatar (some people have 500 posts or more and still don't have a personal avatar because they don't want one)

[I know that it is possible to be under two categories; in fact category 1 is pointless with the other three categories being present]

If you fall under any of those four categories you are NOT a newbie, otherwise you ARE a newbie. Also, note that if you were a "lurker" in 1999, and you have just now registered, you are still a newbie.

OMG! Do I feel not at home here
I didn't know that hierarchy and social status is that important in this forum.
I can actually understand Biggles:

This place is way too unpleasant for me.

But maybe I'm spoiled because I mostly hang around in a forum were people are really friendly, behave mature and always answer polite to newbie "spam".

But as I liked Civ III, I thought well, let's try this forum. Probably a bad choice but we'll see.

[sachmo71]

Originally posted by Rasbelin


Hey, don't try to be a big shot, sachmo71!

I have been an ACS member much longer than you and I have posted more than 15 times more than you have (782 versus 51). So pay some respect to the more high ranked members.

I was going to flame you, but decided against it. I am glad you think that being a member here makes you something special, but I my world you don't even exist. I will continue to post here, and read messages about the game, because frankly this is the best site for information on Civ 3. If I could find a better one, I would leave you and your kind to your continue your circle-jerk. TRUST ME ON THIS! As with all thing in life, I will have to take the good with the bad. So in the meantime, if you think I am getting "too big for my britches", simply ignore me. Or flame me. I personally don't give a f*ck what you do, sheep.

[Pingu]

Sorry guys, didn't mean to intrude, wrong room obviously

[yin26]

As one of the most 'senior' posters on this forum, I have to say that the elitist attitude shown here makes me sick. While I have decided not to post so much lately, seeing new people treated this way makes me want to post even less. Shame on those of you doing such things! You don't belong here.

To all the new people here: Please ignore such trolls! There are good and bad people where ever you go. We are all at one point new people on a forum, and I hope that you decide to hang around and contribute in helpful ways to the community. I repeat: Ignore elitist trolls!

And for you geeks wanting to play the 'rank game': I hereby order anybody with fewer posts than I have to stop this crap and welcome new people. Your Master has spoken. Obey.