Ancient Warfare - Using Horseman as mobile artillery

Fistleaf · November 22, 2001, 05:35

The relatively useless but 2-1-2 horseman can be used like artillery. Bring your horsemen together with your normal swordsmen in invasions. Always use the horsemen to attack first: they will take damage but can withdraw when they are at 1 HP. The purpose here is to try to damage enemy defenders so that your swordsmen can win more easily, similar to what catapults do. Because they have 2 movement points, the horsemen can retreat to heal and return to the battlefield fast. Another advantage is that horsemen can be upgraded so you won't lose out by building horsemen.

Kekkonen · November 22, 2001, 07:16

Later in the game you can use your surplus swordsmen like this as well -- just send them on suicide missions against fortified musketmen. Sometimes this is worth more than the shields you get for disbanding them.

Grim Legacy · November 22, 2001, 07:37

Quote:

Originally posted by Fistleaf
The relatively useless but 2-1-2 horseman can be used like artillery. Bring your horsemen together with your normal swordsmen in invasions. Always use the horsemen to attack first: they will take damage but can withdraw when they are at 1 HP. The purpose here is to try to damage enemy defenders so that your swordsmen can win more easily, similar to what catapults do. Because they have 2 movement points, the horsemen can retreat to heal and return to the battlefield fast. Another advantage is that horsemen can be upgraded so you won't lose out by building horsemen.

Some points:

1) the extra movement does not pay off if your main army is swordsmen.

2) the attack strength is relatively low, making attacks weak.

3) the units have a chance of killing themselves when attacking.

4) the units need to heal a number of turns until fully healed again, during which they are useless but do cost upkeep.

5) catapults do not require resources, but are still very cheap to produce and have an artillery power of 4 -also being able to destroy pesky barracks, resisting population etc.

So... I am not sure whether I'd use horsemen as artillery when I have the real thing handy.

Dry · November 22, 2001, 07:39

Quote:

Originally posted by Fistleaf
The relatively useless but 2-1-2 horseman can be used like artillery.

Useless?
Depends...
In my first war of my first game (warlord), I had Iron, but it was depleted after I built only 3 Swordmen. As the russians had Iron (2), I went to war with my best units: horsemen; vet. then elite. An elite horseman is able to kill a fortified reg. spearman !
But all this of course is at warlord level.
I went on regent level only yesterday

Aeson · November 22, 2001, 07:55

I think horsemen are very useful, and in fact, much more so than swordsmen. Playing the current Apolyton tournament game won me over to their use, but too late in the game to actually help much in my conquest. I had well over 100 swordsmen and almost as many catapults by the early AD's, but probably 80% of them were too late getting to any given battle to actually be of use. I was fighting on several fronts even, but most of my army saw little action, if any. The few horsemen I did produce early in the game often were ahead of the rest of my army, taking cities before anyone else showed up. Also their travel time from one front to the other, or from their production city to a front only took half the time. By the end of my conquest I researched chivalry, and the 8 or so horsemen I had left were quickly upgraded to knights. If I had gone straight horsemen I probably would have finished the conquest completely before then though, but still upgrading to 200 knights would have been a crazy boost in power. As it was my pondering army and handful of knights rolled over everyone else, just not as quickly as it should have.

narmox · November 22, 2001, 09:58

indeed, horsemen are incredibly useful. Isn't that the only thing Mongols used to conquer "the world" up until they got a few catapults here and there? (ok, I think the game represents those mongol horsemen as the chinese riders...) 1 or 2 horsemen won't do good, cause they have a chance of dying, as someone said above. But send 10 against a city, it won't resist long, then bring swordsmen to finish the job or fortify until you can get spearmen, etc... That's how I conquered the Russians in my latest game

After I lost 10 swordsmen to a single spearman, I decided to send more horsemen.. then a few centuries later the whole russian empire was gone.

jack_frost · November 22, 2001, 16:00

swordsmen aren't really useful. Only time I ever have them is upgraded warriors.

Horsemen are really much better due to the run away ability and 2 movement. A horde of horsemen will crush your enemies spearmen, and soon after - will also crush without casualty the counter attack. Don't waste time dragging catapults and the like around, just open up and run him over.

You want good results in combat, you need to minimize losses. The run away thing lets pretty much all of your horsemen later become knights, and finally cavalry. Lost shields due to combat losses with swordsmen, just isn't worth it. Sure you need a few more horsies then what ever your attacking. But just wait a turn or two for them all to heal, and move your horde to the next city. Rinse repeate. While the horsies are healing, bring in your useless swordsmen to stop defection.

player1 · November 22, 2001, 16:31

Try using a Mounted Warriors!
When I have those, I NEVER use Swordsmen.

narmox · November 22, 2001, 18:35

now of course, if your enemy is intelligent enough, he'll pursue your fleeing damaged horsemen with his own... hmm... I know the AI builds a lot and goes after weak units (when he has the resources).

and once the enemy gets musketeers, even cavalry aren't always enough, so you need to start thinking about cannons and all.. plus infantry-type units to keep the cities you conquered or protect mobile units from counter-attacks.

this is great

jack_frost · November 22, 2001, 22:07

"now of course, if your enemy is intelligent enough, he'll pursue your fleeing damaged horsemen with his own... hmm... I know the AI builds a lot and goes after weak units (when he has the resources). "

flee? no, if you lose combat and run, what you do is press W. Then attack again with another horseman. And again. Then you move your damaged horseman into the city you just took and press F.

halley · November 23, 2001, 00:15

I am beginning to believe that Horseman, and in general fast units, dominate Civ 3. I can usually storm a city with about a dozen Horseman and not lose a single one, even when the enemy has Pikeman. Then I just move all my Horseman into the city, heal (even faster if I have Sun Tzu), and proceed to storm the next city. The A.I. is completely helpless against this strategy.

War4ever · November 23, 2001, 01:00

the horseman feels like the early chariot of civ1 and looks like the knight of civ2

its a great unit to fight ancient wars with, so is the swordsman...... the two together easily destroy ANYTHING in the ancient era.

The ai builds alot of units when they gets settled in. The first civ you come across will never withstand four swordsmen and four horsies.....

if your neighbors have iron working but no access yet to iron, it is the time to pounce on them......vet archers stand no chance against swordsmen.... in or out of cities....

the ai still can't wage a war.... you must punish one quickly in the game in order to freak the other ones into submission for a few years

fast attack units have the same advantages as the fast attack units of civ2.... this is the same game in essence....way too easy after only three weeks of playing ....