coal plant v. hydro plant

Boney · November 23, 2001, 07:20

Is it really worth the time and effort to replace coal plants with hydro plants. All that wasted production. Pollution did not even seem to get any lesser. Now if coal plants were not replaced, but augmented by additional hydro plants that would be different.

Eli · November 23, 2001, 08:33

I never bother building Coal Plants, except in a few wonder producing cities. Just get the Hoover Dam and your problems are solved.

HunterAssasin · November 23, 2001, 09:50

I do the same as Boney I just don't want to deal with the pullution coal plants give.

Signless · November 23, 2001, 09:59

well, I like build faster if I have those.

JayKay · November 23, 2001, 10:17

Quote:

Originally posted by Boney
Is it really worth the time and effort to replace coal plants with hydro plants. All that wasted production. Pollution did not even seem to get any lesser. Now if coal plants were not replaced, but augmented by additional hydro plants that would be different.

Yeah....i build Coal Plants too, until Hydro is available! The boost in production is real good, until you find plants more cleaner!

BTW, have you guys noticed that the production boost of the Nuclear Plant is 150% and not 50% as the other power plants?
(at least that's what is in the civilopedia, i haven't reach there yet to see by myself)

EDIT: After seeing in the Civ 3 Editor, i found:
- Nuclear Power increases factory output by 150%;
- All other power plants increases factory output by 50%;
- City must have a river in it's radius to build a Hydro Plant/Hoover Dam;
- City must be near water (whatever that means) to build a Nuclear Plant;
- Coal and Solar Plants are the only power plants that can be build in every city.
_________________________________________________

Portugal
Nation of: Magellan's (from Magellan's Expedition);
Vasco da Gama (Discoverer of the Maritime path to India);
and Pedro Álvares Cabral (Discoverer of Brazil in 1500)

Eli · November 23, 2001, 10:45

I also noticed it.

It's either a mistake in the civilopedia, a bug, or a very good option.

Unfortunately you can't really use it if the space race victory option is on.

I'm too lazy to check if it really adds 150%...

JayKay · November 23, 2001, 10:55

Quote:

Originally posted by Eli
I also noticed it.

It's either a mistake in the civilopedia, a bug, or a very good option.

Unfortunately you can't really use it if the space race victory option is on.

I'm too lazy to check if it really adds 150%...

Yes. it does! I saw it in the Editor!!

Quote:

Originally posted by Boney
Pollution did not even seem to get any lesser.

That is because Hydro Plants don't reduce the pollution caused by shield production! They just don't make pollution, but they don't reduced it, like in Civ 2! What i mean is that the production bonus of the Hydro Plant doesn't count towards pollution, but the production that existed before the Hydro Plant (Base Production, Factory, Manufacturing Plant) is not changed!

Pollution production goes as follows:
- Hydro and Solar Plants produce no pollution;
- Coal Plants produce pollution (same ammount as factory - don't know really how much, i think is 50%);
- Nuclear Plants reduce shield pollution by 50%.
_________________________________________________

Portugal
Nation of: Magellan's (from Magellan's Expedition);
Vasco da Gama (Discoverer of the Maritime path to India);
and Pedro Álvares Cabral (Discoverer of Brazil in 1500)

DK36 · November 23, 2001, 17:34

I also just go for the Hoover Dam so I wouldn't have to build the damn things in every city.. but seems like I'll be switching to nuke power quite soon

player1 · November 23, 2001, 18:10

In civ3 there is no such thing as pollution from production.
There are only pollution making buildings

Factory: 2 pollution points
Coal Plant: 2
Iron Works: 4
Manuf. Pl: 2
Nulc. & Hyd. Plants: 0 (ZERO!)
Res. Lab: 1
Airport: 1
Offshore Platform: 2

Every pop beyond 12 (until building Mass Transit): 1 polltution point

Recyc. Labs dercrease polltion from buildings for some amount.

Mister Hand · November 23, 2001, 18:17

Nuclear plants do give you a 150% bonus. However, there is the risk of meltdown. I've not had a meltdown yet, but I assume it's very very bad.

What bugs me is that if I build a hydro plant, coal plant still appears on my menu. A hydro plant should be considered an upgrade to a coal plant. There's no reason to switch back.

player1 · November 23, 2001, 18:25

You can sell that Coal Plant.
Just right click on Coal Plant icon, and then click on sell building option.

jack_frost · November 23, 2001, 19:54

this took me a little time to figure out myself. The civlopedia informs us: hydro plants require a source of water.

So even after you build a hoover dam you will still need coal plants in many cities.

Yet another wonder nerf'd.

Elucidus · November 23, 2001, 20:05

Quote:

Originally posted by jack_frost
this took me a little time to figure out myself. The civlopedia informs us: hydro plants require a source of water.

So even after you build a hoover dam you will still need coal plants in many cities.

Yet another wonder nerf'd.

Hoover damn gives hydro plants to ALL cities on the continent, even those without water access.

What it means by access to water is that in order to BUILD the hoover dam you have to have water nearby.

jack_frost · November 23, 2001, 20:14

I was suprised too, since thats how it worked in civ2.

Look again.

jack_frost · November 23, 2001, 20:25

i'm wrong - Elucidus is right.

Zorkk · November 23, 2001, 20:51

I have to beg to differ on this one....

Building the Hoover Dam, gives hydro power to all cities that would be ABLE to build a hydro power planet. IE, that city MUST have access to water, more specifically a river. (i have one city with a lake 1 square diagonally left (west) and I can only build a coal plant there.

In my gmae last night, I just build the hydro plant, and when i look around after, any city that didn't have a river in it's immediate (1tile) vicinity, had no hydro plant, and I had the option to build a coal plant.

Zorkk

jack_frost · November 23, 2001, 20:54

I thought so too, but I just checked in my last game and a city which didn't have access to water had a hydro plant.

Maybe I'm mistaken here, and there was a bit of river somewhere nearby.

Elucidus · November 23, 2001, 21:54

No, for the hoover dam it doesn't matter per city, just the one that builds it. For a hydro plant, though, it depends on each city trying to build one. I wasn't sure when I first built the hoover damn and so I checked. Sure enough land-locked cities had a hydro plant.

Try making a wonder have the effect of building a harbor in all of your cities. Now that looks funny. All your land-locked cities have a harbor. Check the city view screen for a real laugh.

Glad I could be of some help, guys. Happy gaming.

Zorkk · November 23, 2001, 21:58

Hmmm...

I'm gonna check this out in my game when i get home, with screenshots, so everyone's certain!

Zorkk

Zanzin · November 23, 2001, 22:03

Actually, I think I've picked up a bug with the Hoover Dam wonder...

I built the Hoover dam....yet found I could still build coal plants...so I built one to see what happened - and, strangely, I had both coal and hydro plants in the city - what I wonder though is, are both functioning? I.e. am I getting +100% production? Or is only the newer one functioning? Bug or not? I can't figure it out. Has this happened to anyone else"

Elucidus · November 23, 2001, 22:14

I would say try it again in another city. This time keep track of shields produced.

Elucidus · November 23, 2001, 22:16

Quote:

Originally posted by Zorkk
Hmmm...

I'm gonna check this out in my game when i get home, with screenshots, so everyone's certain!

Zorkk

Yeah, I'd love to post screen shots, but I am not there yet in my current game. I will if I get there and no else has posted screenies yet.

Zorkk · November 24, 2001, 03:01

Well.. I guess I should pay more attention in the game!

I have the Hoover damn in another city, and here's a city with NO water close to it at all...

Zorkk

DK36 · November 24, 2001, 13:50

If you build the Hoover Dam, ALL your cities get Hydro plants. Water, or not. Even on the city view screen you can now see a river maraculously appear (

) You can then build a coal plant in any city you want, replacing the hydro plant, then build a hydro, then a coal, etc......... It's ever-exchangable.

DK36 · November 24, 2001, 13:53

By the way, nice strategic box, Zork!

Jing · November 24, 2001, 14:18

It turns out that you need fresh water in the city radius to build the Nuclear Plant, not "fresh or salt" as te Civlopedia says. Either it is a bug or the Civlopedia is out-of-date.

Drathx · November 24, 2001, 15:14

I had a nuclear plant meltdown on me in my tournament game. I switched to democracy thinking a long war would be over for good but I was dragged right back in and the people let me hear it. Tons of cities were in disorder and one of my big ones had a meltdown. It was just as if a nuclear bomb went off, population was cut in half, 8 tiles of polution, all improvements on those tiles burned away and changed to plains... It was nasty. Take care of your nuclear cities!

JayKay · November 26, 2001, 06:18

Quote:

Originally posted by Zorkk
Well.. I guess I should pay more attention in the game!

I have the Hoover damn in another city, and here's a city with NO water close to it at all...

Zorkk

Have you noticed that the total shield production is the entire result of the following formula, only the result being rounded!

Base production*(1+Factory Bonus*(1+Plant Bonus)=
=5*(1+50%*(1+50%)=5*(1+0.75)=5*1.75=8.75

Rounded=9 Total Shield Production

I think in Civ 2, the shield production bonus were rounded one-by-one like this:

Base production=5
Factory Bonus=Base production*50%=5*50%=2.5 => Rounded=2
Plant Bonus=Factory Bonus*50%=2*50%=1
Total Shield Production=Base production+Factory bonus+Plant bonus=5+2+1=8 Total Shield Production
_________________________________________________

Portugal
Nation of: Magellan's (from Magellan's Expedition);
Vasco da Gama (Discoverer of the Maritime path to India);
and Pedro Álvares Cabral (Discoverer of Brazil in 1500)

Zanzin · November 26, 2001, 07:05

Quote:

Originally posted by DK36
If you build the Hoover Dam, ALL your cities get Hydro plants. Water, or not. Even on the city view screen you can now see a river maraculously appear (

) You can then build a coal plant in any city you want, replacing the hydro plant, then build a hydro, then a coal, etc......... It's ever-exchangable.

But what seems to happen is that, because of building the hoover dam, I can concurrently have both a Hydro plant + coal plant in any given city.

Zorkk · November 26, 2001, 18:16

And you should probably sell that coal plant ASAP. In the game that I got the screen shot from (btw.. i made all the people entertainers so it would be eaiswer to see there was NO water nearby at all) I did a test, and built a coal, and a solar plant in a city. That city gained NO extra production bonus'. So if you can be sure of building the HD wonder, then it's est not to build any coal plants

Even if i didn't get HD, i'd probably wait, and go for solar plants over coal plants, that way i know the pollution is less.

Zorkk