really funny really great really really

[Archer]

i just did this so dont say it cant be done i went into a deal with the babylonians or however the #### you spell it and i said i would give them 999999999 each turn for each of their citys they accepted before i crushed my civilzation with fees i declared war i got all the citys without the cost HAHAHAHAHA now it being very early in game my civilzation was sorrounded and very stagnant in tech but apart from the cities i asked for i also got there tech too now this plan really works well if youre in a communism or a despotism where the people get killed if you hurry production (not sure about communism) but the cities have to be well devoloped so you can get good defenses the first turn the reason this strategy doesnt work well in other forms of goverment is because if you have to resort to a deal like this you probably dont have alot of money but im ending out on top

[HardRock!!]

I didn't understand

[Fei]

I shall try to decipher this....I think he meant that he offered 9999999 gold for certain cities belonging to the Babylonians. Before he actually had to pay out the 9999999 gold, he declared war and got all the cities for free. After that, it's all Greek to moi.

[Ray K]

Originally posted by Fei
I shall try to decipher this....I think he meant that he offered 9999999 gold for certain cities belonging to the Babylonians. Before he actually had to pay out the 9999999 gold, he declared war and got all the cities for free. After that, it's all Greek to moi.

The "Gold per turn" feature is broken big-time. The AI can't handle it very well and is therefore easy to manipulate.

I don't accept or pay "xxx gold per turn" anymore because it makes the game too damn easy. It's like taking candy from a baby.

[Johnny_Vegas]

I also refused to use the "gold per turn" in negotiations, because of it being broken.

However I started using it again, but I will only accept the amount that the AI suggests, I will never enter my own values.

[Fei]

"I don't accept or pay "xxx gold per turn" anymore because it makes the game too damn easy. It's like taking candy from a baby"

It makes the game too easy??!!! I'm trying to beat the computer on Deity level and trust me, you'll need every advantage you can get. As it is, the computer players are generations ahead of me in technology and how is it possible for them to advance so fast?!? I'm trying like crazy to just survive....yes....I'm lousy.....shout it to the world manz.

[Johnny_Vegas]

Fei, if you beat the game on Deity by taking advantage of flaws in the game, then you really didn't accomplish much in my opinion.

I'd rather play an easier difficulty, playing the game the way it was intended to be played, than playing a harder difficulty and having to exploit bugs to win.

[barefootbadass]

I only use the per turn as part of negotiations involving resources. That way, it cannot be abused and is completely fair(the deal does get canceled if you can't pay right?).

I pay X gold per turn for luxury Y or vice versa. Other wise I don't use it except to milk a little more out of the ai for something like a tech if they'll agree to give me gold per turn some, and if they cancel and go to war on me, its not really a major loss for me(I already got my 'down payment') , as the per turn was just icing on the cake.

[Libertarian]

Maybe I can help. I ran the post through Babelfish. From English — I think it was English — to German, to French, and back. Here's the result:

-----

I do precisely that of which it say thus its make in diagonal me go in a agreement with a D babylonians or however with D #### you spell him and myself say me him give 999999999 per rotation for jed of him citys it accept before me my zerquetschen civilzation with some tax me declare war me receive all the D citys without D fresh HAHAHAHAHA him be now in a play my civilzation being very early sorrounded and very stagnant in tech however in addition to a D the city I demandele plane for me also of maintenance there tech still that really work well if youre communism or despotism where a D of person dépêchentde maintenance beend if you production (not surely communism Of the cities must be probably devoloped, therefore you can good defense the first rotation receive the reason which this strategy is good doesntarbeit in other forms goverment, because that if you must so probably resort to an agreement you of which, alot of the money have however you who finish outside on the surface upper

-----

There. Now it's more clear.

[Grim Legacy]

Ah bah, another exploit. If I'm not mistaken, it again involves the 'excessively large number bug'.

I encountered a little AI diplomacy bug myself. At one point I was offering 4G/turn + somelump sum for a Tech, which was "almost a deal". Then I increased the per turn amount, only to be told they "would never accept that". Huh?

[Gholam]

Actually, that one is not a bug - you hit the limit of what AI can *possibly* pay.

[Ray K]

Originally posted by Fei
"I don't accept or pay "xxx gold per turn" anymore because it makes the game too damn easy. It's like taking candy from a baby"

It makes the game too easy??!!! I'm trying to beat the computer on Deity level and trust me, you'll need every advantage you can get. As it is, the computer players are generations ahead of me in technology and how is it possible for them to advance so fast?!? I'm trying like crazy to just survive....yes....I'm lousy.....shout it to the world manz.

I don't see the appeal in using an exploit to beat the AI on any level.

I can beat deity easily. I just ask for 9999999 gold/turn and then rush-build improvements and units for the rest of the game. yawn.

bug, exploit. same difference.

[Archer]

people i implied this as a last resort i think i did anyways im not playing like that and i use it only as a last resort but still it was funny

[Libertarian]

i o c now tanks u kewl

[Blaupanzer]

Clearly a bug, mentioned in another post as going the opposite way. On one level, it's disturbing that the AI responds it can pay 6 per turn, but not 15, yet will accept 9999999 from you or for itself. Even more disturbing, if I understand the fellow from the other post, the AI actually pays the 9999999. From this post, it is clear the AI will give you anything for enough money. Even though the program sets limits, the player so exceeds them so much as to be beyond the programming. Wonder if you waited one turn after making all these offers, what actually would happen to the AI's economy and yours.

In the meantime, don't use nonsense to win. This is Single Player (SP), people. Don't cheat yourself out of the real experience.

[Monoriu]

Originally posted by Archer
people i implied this as a last resort i think i did anyways im not playing like that and i use it only as a last resort but still it was funny

I hate to criticise another poster's writing style, but this time I have to say it:

Sentences please!

[Fei]

Maybe some of you haven't noticed but that the computer actually cheats, and it cheats bad. I hate it when they use pathetic cheating methods to compensate for a lousy AI. For those who have not tried Deity level, and who have not actually been beaten to crap, they will not be able to understand how I feel.

Perhaps some people will insist that by beating the game on Deity level with cheating methods, I have not accomplished much. But who says I was trying to accomplish anything in the first place? I do play the game on lower levels, and I do beat the computer with pure strategic and tactical planning. That is where I derive my satisfaction and sense of achievement from. Beating the game on Deity level is purely an open show of displaying my comtempt and anger for the lousy AI.

By the way, has anyone seen how the AI uses bombers in Deity level?? I assure you, it's a sight to behold. If they wanted to create a game with so many bugs, I tentatively suggest that they call it:

SID MEIER'S "A BUG'S LIFE"

[Grim Legacy]

Originally posted by Gholam
Actually, that one is not a bug - you hit the limit of what AI can *possibly* pay.

D'Oh! It *is* a bug: I was the one paying the money!! The AI would 'almost' like to receive 4G/t, but when I increased the sum, they would 'never do that'. And I had enough income, yes.

[G.A]

It must be suspecting the treachery if you offer him too large sum
per turn. Especially for tech - if you offer some "ridiculous" sum, it`ll reject, cause it has a healthy suspition, that you`ll take the tech, and declare war, thus avoiding the payment

[Ray K]

Originally posted by G.A
It must be suspecting the treachery if you offer him too large sum
per turn. Especially for tech - if you offer some "ridiculous" sum, it`ll reject, cause it has a healthy suspition, that you`ll take the tech, and declare war, thus avoiding the payment

I would suggest that, once you've EVER broken a treaty, the AI should never accept "gold per turn" from you in any deal.

Even without abusing it, having the AIs finance your research still makes the game too easy.

[Apostle 83]

I fail to see how utilizing a game function is cheating. There is purism and their is blatant foolishness/obsession.

[History049]

Thanks! Good to know at least one cheat

[Elucidus]

Originally posted by Fei
Maybe some of you haven't noticed but that the computer actually cheats, and it cheats bad. I hate it when they use pathetic cheating methods to compensate for a lousy AI.
SID MEIER'S "A BUG'S LIFE"

So does that mean you cheat by using NI (Natural Intelligence). You have a brain, the computer has a list of instructions. Would you rather they gave it the best instructions and no other advantages at higher levels?

[Rhysie]

Originally posted by Grim Legacy


D'Oh! It *is* a bug: I was the one paying the money!! The AI would 'almost' like to receive 4G/t, but when I increased the sum, they would 'never do that'. And I had enough income, yes.

This has happened to me as well - It isn't a bug. It happens when I up the offer to something I can't afford (i.e. the deal would push me into negative income) - Presumably the AI doesn't believe you will make enough effort to up your income to pay him, and so assumes if he accepts such an offer he won't get his money. A bit like me walking into a car dealers and offering them 40,000 dollars for a 20,000 dollar car if I can pay for it a thousand dollars a week - The car dealer knows I won't be able to afford it, so even though I am offering him more than the car is worth he won't bite.

P.S. It could also be a safeguard against the cheating of offering more than you can afford and then declaring war to avoid the deal. If the offer is more than you can afford it's assumed you are just offering an excess amount to get what you want with no intention of paying. The fact you can do that with higher numbers doesn't mean there isn't a safeguard in place, it just means it doesn't expect large numbers.

[barefootbadass]

Originally posted by Apostle 83
I fail to see how utilizing a game function is cheating. There is purism and their is blatant foolishness/obsession.

In most cases getting per turn income is fine and within the scope of how that part of negotiations is supposed to work.
However, if I understand this 9999999999 gold per turn thing, it is clearly exceeding the limits of integers in the programming language and/or the code cannot handle these situations. It is a bug and cheating to use it and will sap any challenge or fun out of the game if you use it.

[Ray K]

Originally posted by Apostle 83
I fail to see how utilizing a game function is cheating. There is purism and their is blatant foolishness/obsession.

This 9999999 gold/turn is cheating

Using it to dominate AIs because they are too willing to stupidly give up all of their income is just exploiting an AI weakness. I don't care if you call it not doing this "purism" or "foolishness", I still think it's weak to exploit something the programmers obviously didn't get much time to playtest.

[Kaesar]

Sometimes I wish there are basic language requirements on message boards.

ps. Yeah I know I'm being insensitive.

[Grim Legacy]

Originally posted by Rhysie


This has happened to me as well - It isn't a bug. It happens when I up the offer to something I can't afford (i.e. the deal would push me into negative income) - Presumably the AI doesn't believe you will make enough effort to up your income to pay him, and so assumes if he accepts such an offer he won't get his money. A bit like me walking into a car dealers and offering them 40,000 dollars for a 20,000 dollar car if I can pay for it a thousand dollars a week - The car dealer knows I won't be able to afford it, so even though I am offering him more than the car is worth he won't bite.

P.S. It could also be a safeguard against the cheating of offering more than you can afford and then declaring war to avoid the deal. If the offer is more than you can afford it's assumed you are just offering an excess amount to get what you want with no intention of paying. The fact you can do that with higher numbers doesn't mean there isn't a safeguard in place, it just means it doesn't expect large numbers.

Well, although your story offers a very neat explanation of this behavior, I still don't think it wasn't a bug.

Let me explain this further:

-my per turn income was about 40G/t, my treasury about 450G.
-my relation with the AI Civ had been nothing less than Polite since first (mediated) contact. There was never a war between me or their allies. We had been dealing luxuries for centuries.
-the deal was their tech for my world map, plus an amount of gold per turn, the deals I offered were: 2G/t (close), 3G/t (close), 4G/t (close), 5G/t(NEVER).

Now taking this into account, the situation is quite different from what you described...

[Kuciwalker]

What he did was not a bug or cheat. It was just really underhanded.

If he offers to pay 9999999 gold per turn, and the AI accepts, then it's not his fault. It just means that the AI is ignorant as h*ll because it doesn't know that he couldn't possibly pay that much. Exploiting ignorance is a valid tactic.

If he does this and then declares war so as to not pay the gold, he is using an explicitly mentioned game function AS IT IS MEANT TO BE USED. He is merely being nasty to the poor, ignorant, stupid AI. Nothing is wrong with that.

[Grim Legacy]

Sigh. It's A BUG!!!

The thing is the amount 9999999 (whatever) is not detected properly: the program does not handle this as it should.

It would be like you described if he offered an amount he could pay, but which would be very high still... or if he offered a sum he couldn't pay, but still within reasonable limits (say 10.000).

Anyway, we can discuss this at length or be short about it. The next patch will make this issue disappear... a little birdie told me that.