Civ IV: The List v.2.0

[DarkCloud]

Index

I. Resources
1. Synthetics
2. Food
3. General

II. AI
1. General AI
2. Mutable AI
3. Learning AI

III. Wonders

IV. Units/War
1. Realism
2. Reports
3. Units
4. Movement
5. Military Advisor Screen
6. Espionague
7. Combat
8. Satellites
9. Negotiations

V. Terrain
1. General
2. Improvements

VI. Multiplayer
VII. Interface
VIII. General
IX. Editors
X. The UN/Diplomacy

XI. Governments
1. Corruption
2. General

XII. Trade
XIII. Technologies
XIV. Religion
XV. City Improvements
XVI. The Map
XVII. Civilizations
----
I. Resources

1. Synthetics
- Rubber should be able to be synthetically produced in certain factories after a certain date, say after the civilization discovers Synthetic Fossil Fuels... After that time rubber can be found on the map, grown, or produced in Rubber factories
-DarkCloud

Dye and Saltpepper could also be synthetically produced with a factory or a chemical factory
-Wernazuma III/DarkCloud

there should be a way to build manufactured luxuries (cars, hi-fi, but also some manufactured medieval ones). A specific improvement, say "car factory" should be available if you have the needed resources (coal, iron and oil), and would turn one shield into a luxury. It would also cease to function when you stop having these resources. You couldn't build more "luxury producing improvements" than the number of civs, and only one per city
-Spiffor

2. Food
-there should be some way to share food resources, there should be no reason to have two cities near each other, linked via road with one overflowing with food and the other starving.
-Bleyn

- "Rice" tiles : can't produce anything else than food, but lots of it, say five or six, and more with irrigation / railroad / farmland.
-Spiffor

3. General
-Coffee
-Tobacco
-Sugar
-Venger

Copper (needed for some ancient and modern units
Stone (Strategic - for wonders/improvements : eg. Pyramids, Hanging Gardens)
-Mongoloid Cow

Strategic Resources:
Quicksilver
Whale Blubber
-TrailerParkJawa

1) unlogic and historical failures: 3 cases of recource restrictions

a) slapeter as strategic recource you need for gun powder. Stupidity.
Salpeter isn't a strategic recource in fact (wake up in shool, ask your
chemistry teacher) but always available where enemies or humens are. But
inthe game it may happen that you don't have Salpeter recource and then you
can build the versions of that gun powder weapons.

b) oil as condition for tank and motor ships / early air units
also ask yout teacher. If you have coal (and do know the chemistery or
refining coal) you can make the same.That was made until end of 2nd world
war from Hitler as Germany didn't have oil but lot of coal.
It's a bad joke in the game that oil is rare and your research already is
until rockets and atom power but you are still using horses for your troops.
-Dreifels

Luxury:
Resin
Slaves
Marble
-Wernazuma III

cotton
-DaleC76

In regard for resources, instead of having them divided into Strategic / Luxury / Food / Other, maybe each resources has its own uses and traits.

For example:
Take the idea of a new resource Silver. Out of all of the above categories, it would best fit into the luxury or other category, even though it was used differently. So instead, give it its own traits :
- Gives x amount of money into the treasury each turn
- Tradeable (can be traded)
- City Trade Bonus of y trade production
- Happiness benifit of 1

The idea could be applied to all resources, and although it might get a bit complicated, the importance of each, individual resource is enhanced.
-Mongoloid Cow

---
II. AI

1. General AI
-Have the AI enforce it's borders against other AIs.
Grunthex

Workers:
Instead of fifty workers all running to irrigate the same square on the opposite side of the map, I'd like to see a level of communication and co-operation between them. Seriously, the Worker on AUTO wastes so much time, I have to micromanage them to ensure the job is done correctly. Pet annoyances:

1. Workers don't communicate. They all run to the same location to do the same job.

2. Workers bypass tasks that need to be done HERE in preference to tasks that need to be done over THERE.

3. Workers move up and down the same bloody road, almost as if they can't decide what they want to do.

4. Workers sitting in town, not doing anything, fully automated, with a thousand tasks that still need to be done. What *are* they doing?
-Kolyana

2. Mutable AI
- The idea is that the a.i. code is highly flexible and new algorithims can be inserted or old one modified easily. Then, presuming the presence of a multiplayer feature, Firaxis reps monitor the MP games and use recordings of the best players as basis for new a.i. code. The code will be available as a free download on a bi-monthly
-Delthayre

3. Learning AI
The artificial intelligence monitors your moves and reacts accordingly, much like in Command and Conquer, etc.
-DarkCloud

III. Wonders

I know this will be difficult, but make the effects of the wonders fully editable. I.E, I can make a wonder called "Royal Road" that doubles the trade to all cities on the continent, even though there is no "official" wonder with this ability.
-Taylost

Wonder movies
-mrbilll

The Great Library seems to expire instantly, and the Great Wall really isn't even worth building in the first place.
-mrbilll

3) The Apollo Project
Even if you made that wonder, the earth still has black holes. Devil, play
on a huge earth map with 16 factions and you have some wars you can't see
what where recourses/cities they have, althought you made Apollo wonder.
Also unlogic and stupid.
-Dreifles

IV. War/Units

1. Realism

they could create a system of warfare where wars don't take 50 years to complete, even in the modern age.
-Taylost

When a loaded transport ends a turn next to land or in port the units on board should ask permission to unload (as in SMAC).
-Purple

How about CTP2's Mutual Assured Destruction option for nukes? (Sorry if I missed this above, I looked to c if it was there).

Basically, you can order a friendly city to use any nukes it has there to counterattack any enemy city that attacks it with a nuke.
-Raleigh

subs should be able to atack citys on land, but there attack would be like 2 or 3 if the
atacked a city. is is ww2 subs had a deck gun. also they could be like bomders with that
they can chose to attack
JayMan

I'd like to see air units be able to actually destroy units instead of only bringing them down to 1hp.
-NYLatenite

Civil War/revolutionary wars
-monkspider

Possible last minute idea: Casualty totals for wars?

Perhaps this has been suggested many, many times in the past and more elequently. Heck, maybe this is even already in the game ( ) but it is a little something I have always wanted to see in Civ.
I envision a system (nothing too fancy, mind you) which would simply record the total casualties for each side in a war. I'm talking actual lives, rather than units lost. In anchient times, say the Romans lost 30,000 men and the Japanese lost 20,000. In modern times Germany loses 10 million men and the Russians 20 million, and so forth. It would provide a sobering look at how terrible war really is, and you could sort of keep track of your worst wars ever for future references and so forth (oh, in this one game, I was the Babylonians and I was fighting China and Persia and I lost 100 million guys! It was crazy man!).
This would be a super-simple thing to add, really just an algorithm based on time periods or something like that to calculate how many men are represented by each unit. I say Firaxis ought to go ahead and implement this if they haven't yet.

c=casualties in war
p=population of civ
u=units killed in war
t=total number of units

c=p[0.2(u/t)]
-monkspider/JellyDonut

The possibility for an option of when you take a city- you can order the entire population slaughtered; of course the UN wouldn't like that, and the civ may now fight against you to the death; but it adds a whole new dimension.
"I want my racial purges!!!"
-DarkCloud

Return Firepower (See this thread: HERE
-Venger

2. Reports
a report showing odds before a battle is attemped (as in SMAC)
-cort

3. Units
Privateer must have attack = 2
-Alex Kravetski

Mines! be able to place mines on squares within your cultural border (land or sea). Works similar to bombard in that it can't kill a unit just hurt. To join U.N. you must remove all mines from teritory. Also affects trade.
-YahMon

Stealth land units such as commandos which can also be placed on subs. Could be inserted with helicopter as well (might actually use them) detect chance 99% if on tile being worked by enemy city, base detect chance each turn 10% with modifyers (-5% mountains/hills etc..etc..)
-YahMon

Nuclear submarines that are able to carry multiple cruise missiles(2 or 3 will be fine)
-conquistadore

A "Fleet" option where you could build a combined-arms fleet of ships and use them as one unit:
EXAMPLE:
map making- triremes (antiquity)
feudalism- galleys (middle ages fleets)
navigation- caravels, galleons (Renaissance)
magnetism- Man-o-war, frigates, galleons (Colonization era)
refining- dreadnoughts, ironclads, late wooden ships (industrial)
mass production- battleships, cruisers, destroyers, carriers,
Rocketry- modern fleets, composed of nuclear subs, AEGIS cruisers, and carriers.
-Oncle Boris

CAVALRY CHARGE TO THE DEATH OPTION
-Raleigh

Let the nukes be like the planetbusters of SMAC. Devastating, but with SEVERE diplomatic and environmental repercussions. They'd still be usable, but only if you've got a very good reason.
-mrbilll

War atrocities such as razing a city, bombing city populations back to the stoneage, etc... should make "partizans" spring out of the enemy civ (weak infantry?) and cause diplomatic problems unless it is in retaliation for a similar war atrocity commited by the AI
-YahMon


Well, Civ 2 did not really make use of ICBMs (Intercontinental Ballistic Missles). Instead Civ 2 mostly used tactical nukes or nukes you specifically tell what to do each turn, and there was also the ability to place a nuke using a spy. But the real fear comes from ICBMs.
I suggested adding an ICBM unit to civ 2.
Here's how it would work:

Assign it a target.

The ICBM would have a command allowing you to assign a specific tile for it to attack. It would then retain this tile in memory till your ready to use it.
Nuclear War
Somewhere in Civ 3 there should be a command to allow you to lauch your all your preset ICBM's. This is where the cold war idea comes in. All other Civs would have the option to launch their preset ICBMs in retaliation (even before your make another move). In a similar manner if someone else uses nuclear weapons you would immediately have the option to launch your preset ICBMs on them before they can make another move. Thus, things would take on a true nuclear war with all sides incurring casualties.

-Give it 0 movement points
Since the ICBM is not a regular unit, it has no movement points. To load it into a submarine you would move the sub into the city and load it on (like you can in Civ 2). To move to another city, there should be a unit that can do the same thing -- as well as an aircraft that can transport them as well).

Attack Order
There should be an order where you can tell a single ICBM to attack a location on the map instead of having to launch all your preset ICBMs. The enemy would of course detect it and have the option to retalitate with all their forces of ICBMs before your turn is over.

Missle Silos
Using your worker units you should be able to build silos anywhere you want and thus transport ICBMs to them for keeping till you use them (if ever).

Other Nuke Options
1. There would still be the regular old nukes in Civ 3 like there was in Civ 2 -- nukes that have move points as well as using nukes via a spy.
2. Thes other nukes cannot be detected upon launch or anything because they're not big and noticeable like ICBMs. However, once you hit a civ with one of these alternative nukes, the enemy should have an option to strike you with their ICBM arsinal before the turn is over (and of course you can respond in the same as can other civs). Thus, this would deter you from even using other types of nukes.
3. When a spy hits a city with a nuke, there should be a chance that the other civ did not detect your spy and thus cannot tell who did it.

Neutron Bomb
The neutron bomb would be a nice third type of nuclear weapon (perhaps in regular form AND ICBM form). The neutron bomb just kills lifeforms, but doesn't touch structures.

Options
Any time the message pops up asking if you want to launch your ICBM arsenal, you should also have a list of check boxes for the countries you want to attack. For example if you have some ICBMs targeted at Russia and some targeted at China, you can just put a check beside Russia to have those targeted at Russia to fire

Here is the message toolbar summarized:

"Russia has been detected lauching ICBMs.
Do you wish to launch your ICBM arsenal? "
YES | NO | CONTACT EMBASSY

Contact Embassy:
"The first detected Russian missiles will arrive in 15 minutes.
But be warned, if you chose to contact them, there may be some undetect missiles that may hit sooner!"
CONTACT | LAUNCH MISSILES | EXIT

YES/LAUNCH
"15 minutes till first Russian ICBM strikes

Which countries would you like to strike?

You have the following countries targeted:


Russia (19 ICBMs - 3 neutron)


China (10 ICBMs - 0 neutron)


Spain (3 ICBMs - 5 neutron)


Open Diplomacy channels after launch. "
LAUNCH | CANCEL
Kevin Ar18

4. Movement
More movement points for units. It makes sense from both a
realism and gameplay standpoint.
2 movement should be the minimum for regular ground units.
-ndnls

it'd be nice to be able to move a stack of units with one command (IE Tying units together)
-wotan321/DarkCloud

A (the) Patrol function ala SMAC
-Elowan

1/3 of a movement point still gets you to the next square
-EnochF

The AI rarely has a plan when there is no war. However, 'he' insists on moving every gaddammed units anyway ... even if his has to move 20 cavalrymen around and around in circles. I'd like to see these units fortified when nothing is going on.
-Kolyana

The Sentry function
Knasboll

5. Military Advisor
it'd be nice to have a scroll bar on the pop-up list of units on a square if there are so many that all the units don't fit in the pop-up window.
-wotan321

in the Military Advisor window, it sure would be nice to be able to upgrade all upgradable units in the units sorting at once, so you don't have to visit each unit one at a time....
-wotan321

For the military advisor screen- you can activate more than one unit on the screen at once without it closing and zooming in on the unit.
Dominator_Jones/DarkCloud

6. Espionague

1) A spy adviser screen: Like the other adviser screens. It shows both your own country and the other countries with whom you have established an embassy. For each there is a list of espionage options. For each country you also know how strong their espionage is in terms of the number and quality of spies( to be explained)

2) Spy units: I would bring back the spy units but in a different way. First of all they would be more expensive , more like city improvements than the spies in the Civ2. So you can only have a small number at any given time and you have to think carefully how to allocate them. Secondly they aren't like normal units but can only be allocated via the spy adviser screen. So this cuts down a lot of the tedium of moving spies to and fro. Like earlier games the spies will have a number of moral upgrades and also perhaps a diplomat/spy distinction like Civ 2.

3) Multiple defensive operations: this is a new concept( I think) where you can choose what branch to allocate your spy on the defensive. So if you are the technological leader you might allocate your spies to defending from tech stealing.. If you are lagging in culture you might allocate your spies to preventing revolts.

4) Allocating spies: This is fairly straighfoward . Just go to the spy adviser screen and click on the offensive operation for a particular country or whichever defensive operation you want. You can allocate multiple spies to an operation if you want. You can reallocate spies but that will cost you something in terms of unfinished missions.

5) Completing a mission: Each offensive mission has a certain number of spy points. Each spy unit produces a certain no. of spy points per turn depending on morale. You complete the mission only after the number of turns you need to accumulate the spy points for that mission. If you have more spies, their points are added up and you finish the mission more quickly.

6) Spy wars: These happen when the guy you are attacking has a defensive spy for that operation. So suppose you assign a spy to steal Rome's tech but Rome has a spy defending technology, then there is a spy war. This also happens if you have already accumulated points and if Rome decides to allocate a spy from somewhere else to fight you. The spy war is decided according the number and moral of the two sides ( and perhaps some other modifiers). If you win you destroy his spy and simply continue accumulating points. If you lose either your spy is destroyed and exposed or you simply lose all your accumualated points and have to start over.

7) Options to see other players' spy allocations: There are various possibilities. Perhaps you can have an offensive mission to see all of one opponent's spies for a certain number of turns. Perhaps if you build a certain wonder you can see how other countries are spying on you permanently etc.

8) Joint spy missions: You can ask other countries to join you in some spy mission. So you allocate a spy to stealing Roman tech and ask Greece to join you which increases the speed of the mission and makes you stronger in spy wars. Of course both of you get the tech when the mission is complete. There are other diplomatic possibilities as well.
-Kautilya

[DarkCloud]

7. Combat
I'd like to see a change in the combat system itself. IIRC, the basic combat equation for Civ3 isn't really that much different from Civ. And other than the (to me) minor changes in terms of hitpoints/firepower, its not much different from Civ2 either.

Its all still variants on the same equations:
AWP = A/(A+D)
DWP = 1 - AWP

Where AWP and DWP are attacker and defender chances of winning a round respectively.

What I don't like is that if you don't read the explaination on how combat works, I don't think you'll realize exactly what those numbers mean. Ie. To me, they just aren't intuitive. That the attack number is how strong they are when attacking seems right, but that the defensive number is how strongly they can strick back when attacked seems right at first, but when you look at how large the difference in some of the numbers between the attack and defense strength of some of the units are... It doesn't quite make sense to me.

Rather, I would like a system where attack strength represents a units ability to inflict damage on the enemy and defense strength represents the ability of the unit to absorb or avoid punishment without significant loss. Combine it with equations like the following:
AHP = Attackers Attack /( Attackers Attack + Defenders Defense)
DHP = Defenders Attack / (Defenders Attack + Attackers Defense)

Where the attackers chance of hitting and defenders chance of hitting are seperate, allowing for combat rounds where neither side hits or both do. I would even go so far as to suggest that this allow for situations where the combat either ends in a draw if there is no victor after a certain number of rounds(to avoid a combat never ending) or a pyrrhic victory where both units are killed, representing a situation where both sides sustained so much damage that they were shattered and no longer useable as a combat formation.
-Bleyn

8. Satellites

Spy Satellite (0,0,40?) requires Satellites

A new unit type that can be used in two ways. It can fly over a vast swath of the map revealing the terrain/cities/units below. It should be able to completely map the world (average sized map) in 10 turns or so. This path can be automated so that the player doesn't have to move it manually.
At any time it can stop within one space of a rival city and spy on that city revealing the city improvements built and any that are being produced. This ends its turn.
These units are invulnerable. {Perhaps they can be destoyed by civs with Strategic Missile Defense, ICBMs, or stealth fighters.}
Sze

TV Satellite (city improvement) requires Satellites

Functions like wealth, but converts shields into entertainment (4:1).


Space Telescope (city improvement) requires Satellites

Functions like wealth, but converts shields into science (4:1).

9. Negotiations

Wartime:
Make some nations (AI's) want to do everything to get peace after a while of war. If a war is started in the "mutual protection" days it's almost only one way to stop the war (destroy all the other nations), because...well, if you have been in this situation (and who haven't) then you know what I'm talking about here, so no need for an explenation. It would be great if the AI would do more to keep peace after 50 years of war, instead of making peace and the next turn he/she breaks the peace again (Because of the mutual protection pact)
-ADG

V. Terrain

1. General

More varied terrain!
-VanManstien

Volcanoes: Unable to build on them as mountains are now (but no roads or mining is allowed either)
-Jer8m8

Allow us to build cities, roads and mines on mountains! At least allow us to build them in the modern era.
-DarkCloud

The ability to right click on terrain and add text (from SMAC). This adds a great deal to the experience.
-jimmytrick

2. Improvements

-upgradable fortresses (maybe they can add defense AND act as a colony?)
-national flags (basically claim a square and eight surrounding squares, similar to colonies, but still count as within borders)
-bridges across one tile of ocean between landmasses
-canals (ship movement over land)
-Airbases
-cassembler

-Farmland (Refrigiration)
-EnochF

VI. Multiplayer

- Included with the game
DarkCloud

- Simultaneous Turns
DarkCloud

Mini-Games that have very specific victory conditions - maybe "discover new world"
So as to decrease game-time.
-jack_frost

MP specs for Civ IV

- Both TCP/IP and IPX/SPX protocols supported.
- Supported game types: LAN, Internet, modem, hotseat.
- The game would be played as usually, expect humans could negotiate and chat (like in Civ II MP).
- The hotseat model should be reconstructed.
-Rasbelin

- Hotseat Multiplayer
Ribannah

VII. Interface

Pressing "R" instead of CTRL+R should build a Railroad on top of a road.
-DarkCloud

FIND

FIND resource, FIND inactive Worker, FIND Spearman, FIND fortified troops ...
-Kolyana

Optional keyboard control, via arrow, tab, or letter keys of all aspects of the game, especially in screens that require choices (some already have this, but not all).
-Purple

Keyboard command editor (a la CTP).
-Purple

The Info Box (lower right corner) should show movement points remaining for the active unit including fractions .
-Purple

Right-click on a tile should display (or at least list) not only the basic terrain type and resource, but also any enhancements (road, mine, etc.) and all units on it. Sometimes a resource makes it hard to discern whether a mine has been placed there, for example.
-Purple

Ability to turn off city defections
-markusf

all screens especially the diplomacy polished to accomodate 16 civs at once
-cort

civilopedia link from within production decision points (as civ2)
-cort

Allow links to the Civilopedia by right clicking in the selection box in town for improvements/units.
-Grunthex

Make ctrl+s => save the game as the last file saved (like in other programs like MS word) and ctrl+shift+s => save as
-ADG

When SINGLE clicking on a city I want to view the city screen, not activate a random unit
City screen--Under preferences you can uncheck the preference that the units defending a city are shown on top of the city. Then you won't activate them when you click on the city. (but you can't see what units enemy civs have defending, either!)
Double clicking should activate the top stacked unit, hopefully the most powerful unit; Single clicking should activate the city.
Credit for first paragraph-ADG...Possible Fix- Boris Godunov, Third Line- DarkCloud
A more aesthetic icon for the .Exe file for Civ
-ADG

VIII. General

Buttons on cuty screen that will automatically reallocate workers to maximize a type of production. For example, click button 1 to maximize science, button 2 to maximize food, etc. This was a useful feature in CTP1/2
-chill123

abilty to speed up AI movement in later game. Preferences choices aren't enough.
-chill123

I know it can be done in the editor, but it would be nice to be able to assign colors to civs at startup. Some colors (Russian brown, for example) are hard to see on the mini-map, Others are OK for AI civs (like the French magenta), but I'd prefer not to use them when I play that particular civ.
- Purple

Revert to flags to identify nationality of units, and reserve color on the units themselves to make them visually more distinctive. On a high-res monitor they are so small that I can't always distinguish one type from another.
-Purple

It should be possible to take the resources of squares which are not in your city radius, like in SMAC. These resources go to your local trade, like the food/shield you want to trade between cities. To takes the resources far from your cities, you would build a special square improvement, losing the worker in the process (in fact, it would be a colony for food/shields). Such a "food-colony" could be built only in your borders, but only destroyed if someone pillages it : if my ennemies expand their borders in my former territory, they can use these food-colonies without rebuilding them, provided they didn't pillage them during the war.
Building food-colonies should be possible anytime, but useless as long as you don't have the knowledge to trade food. Since many tiles will probably have food colonies on it, the graphics should be discreet (not bigger than a mine for example)
-Spiffor

Migration: People move around, they look for more oppertunities.
People get unhappy if they are not allowed to leave when they want to. Eventually riot, and leave anyway...or something. Could be very cool. People should even move around in your own cities. If there isn't enough food in one, people would go to another.
-I think a migration model is much better then sudden changes of allegance
It shouldn't be a big event once every 1000 years, but a constant ever changing process.
-jack_frost

Great People (Einstein, Picasso, John Lennon, etc) Who can add bonuses to your civilization's culture without being involved in wars.
They will be produced when a civ's "culture" rating is high for a number of years.
monkspider/DarkCloud

Post-Modern Era: Roughly about 50-100 years in the future: so that the game can fill up to 2100 AD.
But not too many 'strange' units... There are many new weapons on the drawingboards- EMP bombs, super-stealth fighters, Sub-space fighters, Mach-8 planes, etc.
-Wrong_shui/DarkCloud

For the post-modern era- Engineers can build a "suspension bridge" across 1 to 2 blocks of ocean
-DarkCloud

You should be able to build a seabase in the water (city in water).
Before you can build a seabase you must discover some specific knowledge.
As a differns from normal cities submarines should be able
to attack seabases. The same knowledge that allows you to build seabases will
allow you to build a new unit called (for example) mini-sub. The buildings in a
seabase should be different from the usual
cities but do the same thing. Instead of Coastal fortress you got torpedodefence
for example. Only some units should be able to defend a seabase and some able to attack.
The only units that should be able to find a seabase should be subs and a new unit like
harpuneman. Ships would just sail over the base.
Anyon

Flexible city radii.

I'm no fan of the 21 square cross that every city gets in civ, civ2, and civ3. You just end up with a dreary grid of evenly spaced cities all three or four squares apart. Nothing like the real world.

So, i'd suggest a system which allows city radii to 'meld'. That is, when you build city close to another one, instead of getting several squares of overlap, the radii expand in other directions so both cities get a decent amount of squares.
-Sandman

I'd like the Transform ability back.
-Sinapus

A new timeline:
Each time the game is ended we see this timeline telling when the cities/wonders were built and where, etc. But I'd also like to see another smaller timeline telling when a major war starts/ends, the golden age for all civs, era changes for the civs (you know, the modern days, ancient days, etc...). This timeline is not ment to be mixed with the classic timeline so we can choose which one we want to see/read (Just like we can choose if want to see the history for power or culture...)
-ADG

Free maps of allies territories if they are allied with you.
-ADG

Special needs for special wonders:
e.g. the Pyramids needs to be built in a city built on a dessert square (or the dessert square next to a river) square. If this is made there need to be made some changes in how many shields the Pyramids (or any wonder with a such change) needs, otherwise we end up having to built the Pyramids in the year 2k AD
-ADG

1.Bring back random placement of Civs! Civs *always* starting next to their culture buddies really ruins the surprise element & makes things too predictable. Culture Civ Placement should be an option at most.
-Pyrodrew

Please give the zoom in and out more levels.
BarnDoor

City 2-square grid
Andrew1999

"Dont zoom to units with orders" command from SMAC, if not familliar with this order it means that a unit with orders (say Automated Worker) just does his work 'off screen' and the view doesn't switch to him, this would save heaps of time later in the game when I have 50 automated workers...
-Blake

More animations for the wonders, cities, etc.
-tishco

Barbarian villages
Randomly placed resources
-EnochF

Corruption should be less intrusive: Example: WE NOW HAVE: 100% corruption after 20 or so cities
-markusf

instead of just having a city switch sides suddenly, perhaps a few population points could exchange first over a couple turns so that you know you have a cultural problem instead of being surprised by it.
-YahMon

IN SCHISM:
- Maybe if you lose your capital, instead of a recently conquered civ (if you conquered them or not) taking half your empire, your empire splits up into
a) Cities loyal to you (the largest and most powerful part)
b) Smaller, unhappy minorities (the civs that have been conquered)
c) The largest minority (religiously/economically) with a different name (eg: Persians - Parthians, French - Burgundians, Babylonians - Assyrians, Greeks - Macedonians)
It would make keeping your empire happy more important
-Mongoloid Cow

If you do not treat colonies well (forced labor, civil disorder) they might join with other colony/cities and become a new civilization.
-Jer8m8

Replace the histogram with a simple line graph, which displays compared values more effectively, IMO. At the very least, how about a toggle?
-Purple

Barbarians settling and becoming empires
-Kolyana

Perhaps a movie a la "Age of Empires" after you win the game?
There should be different ones for different victory styles, UN, Market, Conquest, Space, etc.
-DarkCloud/Libertarian

Also, I wish you didn't have to launch the spaceship when it's built. I wish you could launch when you decide to.
-Libertarian

Windows mode
-KaiserIsak

Intro a la Civ I
-Eli

I'd like some way to guage the cultural attitude of a city. Are they about to jump ship? Are they happy? How long do I have to say, build a temple to boost the local culture? How many military units will I need to keep them from defecting? For that matter, how about giving the units a chance to evacuate or put the rebellion down, instead of just vanishing?
-Culture

We need more ways to deal with corruption.
-Monoriu

Immigration (emmigration) if you have high culture (happiness) people from a nearby civ could immigrate to your civ's closet cities and vise versa. This could lead up to an entire city switching civ loyalty.
-civmonger

I would love to have a program added to the game that would allow us to make our own flags to represent our country. Maybe in the game have a small flag on a pole waving over each of our cities. To me it puts more imagination into the game. Or better yet, not even have the program just have all countries flags today to choose from and maybe a few fictional flags. If this was implemented into the game it would be very easy for us to have mods or downloads of other flags if the ones included were not what we wanted.
-fascistdictator

Courthouses that really reduce corruption.
-jimmytrick




IX. Editors

*Events for the Editor
Ribannah

-The ability to make scenarios
-Roman

Allow City placement in the scenario editor
-Dienstag

Scripting Language for the game
-Rasbelin

The scenario editor needs all the power in the world! If he/she wants it to happen that if one city falls, every other city in a region goes to that civ, or if he wants a world war to be programmed in, he should be able to without having to go through an enormous list of events; ie create the world war in one event not 100+ after something specific happens.

Scripting language should be clear and simple
-Mongoloid Cow

BRING BACK CHEAT MODE!
1. For scenario editors
2. As a 'sandbox' mode for the game.
-The entire scenario community/newbies to civ

*Corrected Earth Maps
Ribannah

the editor needs the zoom function.
BarnDoor

Edit the pollution rates
DarkCloud

[DarkCloud]

X. The UN/Diplomacy

International Peace Conference


- Since the world wars are difficult, if not impossible, to end, there should be a possibility to call international congresses (by clicking a button in the diplomacy / shift-D screen).
(See this site for how it should look: http://www.ifrance.com/fifabsonline/...s/congress.jpg

The central proposition (such as "peace treaty with any other, right of passage with any other"...) must be accepted by all so that the congress is a success. The proposition would make the leaders react, and you can see with their faces if they agree or not.
If they don't agree, what to do ? Bribe them ! By double clicking on their face, a specialized diplomacy screen should pop up, where you make propositions only to make them accept the treaty (private diplomacy can be held anywhere else during the game).
Naturally, you don't want to pay for the whole world peace. In such a situation, there should be a button when you're speaking to "give to..." an other :
(See this site: http://www.ifrance.com/fifabsonline/fichiers/giveto.jpg )
Once you click it, the concessions you ask from your partner don't go to you, they go to another civ. Here's an example :
Let's say the Aztecs have won against the Iroquois, capturing Salamanca, but due to intricated MPPs, this war cannot cease. As the neighbours of the peaceful Iroquois, you don't want the balance to be broken by an unfinishable war. Then, you call a congress between Iroquois, Aztecs, all of their allies. The Aztecs will accept the peace treaty for 20 gold per turn, but you feel the Iroquois must pay : On the congress screen you double click on Hiawatha, choose "give to..." -> "the Aztecs". And then, as you would do in a normal diplomacy screen "gold"-> "per turn" -> "20".
(See this site: http://www.ifrance.com/fifabsonline/...s/toaztecs.jpg )
When you return on the congress screen, you see Moctezuma accepting, because he knows he recieves a compensation.
If you definately cannot have everyone accept, you could kick the "rebels" out the congress.

Well, I admit managing the other's diplomacy is not easy, so I think such a tool should be completely optional. But useful if you want to influence more directly the others. These multilateral bargainings could be used to make solid alliances too, by asking all those who are MPPed with you to MPP between themselves as well. (or to ask everyone to reduce his nuclear weapons, and so on...)
International congresses should be available once nationalism is discovered, or once UN is built. I don't think the AI could manage such a thing, so only the player could call for one. If the negociations succeed, due to your great diplomatic skill, the invited civs would be a bit more likely to vote for you.
-Spiffor

Declare atrocities, sanctions, nuclear arms reductions, pollution reductions
-David Murray

Ask another Civ to end a war against a third civ.
-Kyle

Ability to pressure allies/others into breaking treaties/stopping war
-Raleigh

Players should be able to trade units with other civilizations.
With the same system as for workers (the unit you want to trade must be in your capital, you must have trade roads with your partner).
The AI should value this unit about : the unit's modernity, the unit's experience, the civilization's military needs.
-Spiffor

Players should be able to bribe other civs to declare war to others, without getting directly involved, like in Civ2. With this tool, you really can play a puppet-master kind of game : weakening your ennemies, and direclty helping your friends, without waging a war.
-Spiffor

Your spies should know the vote intentions of infiltrated civs (POSSIBLE SPY OPTION??? INFILTRATE PLANNED COUNCIL VOTE???).
There should be a way to bribe the other civ to vote for you (HIGLY expensive, and impossible if their spies know you're going to win)
-Spiffor

A complete information screen about others civs is needed for the civs with which you have an embassy.
It would list the: Government, capitol, relations with other civs (not only war/peace..., but also politeness), trade agreements, treasury, vote intentions, and most important : the knowledges they have and are researching. This screen should be accessed by a right click.
At the beginning of each turn, your foreign advisor "could" pop up (with an option for turning it off), saying in one screen everything which happened (war declarations, discovered technologies, traded technologies, diplomatic incidents...), big deal such as war and peace declarations would be written in bold.
-Spiffor

Toned down requests for unit removals; or require the enemy to hurry their unit's movement through your lands
Examples: Ask them questions: ""Well, what is that unit doing here? Where is it going? How long will be be within our borders?" "
-Kolyana

I'd like to be able to co-ordinate actions with the AI from time to time, rather than just have him running around doing his own thing.
-Kolyana

There must be some way of demanding that the units NEVER RETURN to your lands
-Kolyana


An expirable, non-revocable non-aggression treaty. This would fix trading between agressive and non-aggressive countries.

Example:
A Civ is agressive but needs some resources. Right now, the other Civs won't trade with them, likely due to security concerns. Why give oil to the enemy war machine?

But - a non-aggression treaty involved with a mutual trade that expires after 20 turns would allow the non-aggressive Civ a sense of security and give the aggressive Civ an opportunity to obtain trades and enjoy the diplomatic aspect of the game.

Allow us to trade security for goods - it makes sense and benefits both parties.
-Venger

In the UN: anyone can ask someone to stop fighting another- useful if you have two potential allies but when you side with one it pisses the other off...
-Cian McGuire

If the UN is built and other nations have agreed to vote in favour of one of your competitors you have the option to say "F**k the UN!" and go on with your bussiness.
This decision would result in all other nations being at war with you for a period of 40 years.
-Mannamagnus

Amassing troops next to A.I. border should be considered hostile and they should prompt you to demilitarize the area or declare war if they are outnumbered more than 5:1.
-YahMon

Is a "Dont watch allies/peace/enemies moves" (except combat) too much to ask for? (wasn't for SMAC)
-Blake

We n eed to have more info on other civilizations in the foreign advisor screen (i.e. are they more or less technologically advanced?, what gov't type?, income per turn?, yada yada yada)
-YahMon

XI. Governments

1. Corruption

I don't exactly know how corruption works in Civ3. I'm also stealing some of these ideas from other threads. Those qualifiers in hand, let's talk about corruption.

Both waste and corruption are affected by the city's distance from the place, the empire's size, the government type. I can see how a courthouse would diminish the corruption/waste due to distance from the palace, but I think there should be more ways to mitigate corruption/waste. As I see it, corruption can be lessened by improving the effeciency of the workforce, increasing communication throughout the empire, and by developing more efficient and reliable ways of handling resources. What I propose is a system with several baby steps to lessening corruption based on several techs and city improvements.

Each one of these techs would knock off, say, 5-10% of the overall corruption in a city. That number is a total guess because I don't really know what the corruption model is.

Currency <- exchanging money is more efficient than bartering
Banking <- reliability & accountability in finances
Corporation <- corporations are known for improving efficiency to maximize profits
Steel <- a mixture, a more efficient use of natural resources
Recycling <- by definition decreases waste

Writing, Printing Press, Radio, Computer, Satellite <- decreasing corruption by making the empire 'smaller' through communication

I don't want this to result in zero corruption. I just want a more realistic and manageable system. An added plus to this system is that half of these techs currently have no new improvement or unit attached to them (corporation, steel, writing, printing press, radio). This would also restore some of the importance to tech gains that has been lost due to the revamped resource/combat system.

Police Stations fighting corruption is a good idea, but they wouldn't really address waste. so I would only allow them to do so if corruption and waste were decoupled which would probably just add unnecessary complexity.

An idea which I love from another thread was the introduction of a Supreme Court small wonder, buildable when you have 5 courthouses, that gives 15-30% corruption reduction to every city in your empire.
-Sze

The corruption model in Civ3 is excellent - that is, until the industrial ages.
All through dawn of civilization to the industrial revolution, every empire suffered rampant corruption. The Romans keeping only one shield in far away cities like Londinium seems fair to me.
However, with the development of railroad, telegraph, and then radio, EFFICIENT post (mainly due to the invention of the stamp), telephone, and now internet, it is completely ridiculous to think corruption (in modern, advanced countries) has any link to distance from the capital. Is San Francisco more corrupt than New York just because it is farter from Washington?

My suggestion would be to put a cap to corruption depending on the government and tech level. At best, under a democracy with all techs, it could be something like 25% (which would justify offshore cities). This would yield approximately the same results as all the other "add this improvement" "add this small wonder" suggestions without creating unuseful complexity.
-Oncle Boris

2. General

Fascism, Theocracy
-Yoleus

-I know this has been talked to death, but I really do think it is a good idea. A social enginnering thing (alaa smac). Not futuristic, but just something that lets us customize our civ. It think the Commuism, Republic, Democracy are too out of date. Example: what kind of economy do you want your civ too have? Is it a peaceful civ, or warlike? And have the choices impact how other civs look at you. Have bonus's and punishments, ranging; for the choices you make. You want to have a depoist government?, but with huge military power?
-Jamison

If the civ Series continue to use exclusive governments, they should have much more identity. If your people are too unhappy under democracy, they should not vote for you next elections, and you will suffer a whole term watching a !&# AI managing YOUR empire. Under communism, there are no local governors or automated workers, you decide everything (economy is planned after all). Under despotism, instead of atrocious corruption, the governors should sometimes build what they want in the city, without you being able to be obeyed during this construction (lack of true authority and bureaucracy)... Just ideas. But having government types with strong identities would make a revolution not only a choice between trade and war, but also a choice of society.
-Spiffor

Dynamic social engineering: Where the values of your citizens would be based not only on your civ caracteristics, but also on your level of tech advancement, and the city improvements you have. For example, a civ with many banks and stock exchanges would have Wealth as its social value. Religion could be included in this screen, but I disagree with it: whatever religion he had, man has always been the same - he wanted decent living conditions, food, love, etc. Adding religion would add unnecessary complexity, while the idea of holy wars could be replaced by antagonism between different social engineerings.
-Oncle Boris

Social Engineering:

political structure:
tribal - despotism - monarchy - oligarchy - republic
main "reason" behind the political structure:
religion - bloodline - wealth - military - constitution
civilization "core" (like the "goals" in SMAC"):
religion - commerce - power - research
them freedom level, education level...
-Yoleus
More govts with strategic value (everyone goes for democracy even AI) Maybe even variations on current govts say for instance Parliament as a variation of Republic (a modern republic if you will)
-civmonger

I can't remember if the game had governments, but it had castes: military, religious, worker (sounds like Minbari so far ), maybe scientific, not sure. And with sliders you could adjust how much power each caste had in your civilization. My memory gets foggy afterwards, but I'm sure that when you had scientific caste higher you'd get science discovered more quickly, but your military built up slower and all... But with more scientists and less workers, you'd get less stuff done, less food/production, etc. It was a very interesting concept. Too bad I don't have that game anymore :/

Where I'm leading with this is that, dunno, the concept of Governments in civ-games doesn't really represent the whole variety of governing bodies in the world. US and France might both be democracies, but they certainly don't work the same way. So adjusting various attributes to tell how you want to run your country might add more variety. Instead of going "Fundamentalist" you'd pump up your Religious Caste slider and get some bonuses from that. Instead of going "Communist" you'd pump up your worker caste. But maybe you don't want to be ultra-communist? So you'd also give some power to your Merchant caste, or your military caste. And so on... Changes wouldn't be immediate, just like revolutions things don't happen instantly.
-narmox

also have an environmental caste (cheaper environmental structures (Solar Plant, Mass Transit, Recycling Centre) and slightly better resource management (environmentalists recycle everything after all))
-Mongoloid Cow

A way to manage large empire. Instead of just city governors, how about "state" or "territory" governors. One could group cities together and assign perhaps a "ground offensive" command or a "culture building" command.
-cassembler

Feudalism
-DarkCloud

Socialism
-YahMon

XII. Trade

Ability to trade military units--international arms dealing, a very important part of modern day diplomacy!
-David Murray

Ability to trade food to prevent the ridiculous situation of one starving city and one city overproducing in the same Civilization.
-David Murray

Roads provide trade bonus anywhere
-EnochF

XIII. Technologies

Ability to steal a technology when capturing a city
-TLG

Philosophy use to give a free tech to the 1st Civ to discover it... now it appears to do nothing.
-Pyrodrew


CONTINUED THIRD POST ON PAGE 3

[DarkCloud]

Anyone interested in helping with the list:

You will be listed if you submit an idea.

But we could also use people who can search out other peoples' ideas in the Civ III sections and post them here so that I can edit the idea threads- this will make for more ideas being posted quicker.

If you do so- I will list you as a thread helper.

Thank you

[Wrong_shui]

WOOT A POST MODERN ERA

[Raleigh]

How about CTP2's Mutual Assured Destruction option for nukes? (Sorry if I missed this above, I looked to c if it was there).

Basically, you can order a friendly city to use any nukes it has there to counterattack any enemy city that attacks it with a nuke.

[Wrong_shui]

I like the idea of a good M.A.D system.

Civ3 runs M.A.A, mutual assured annoyance

[Rasbelin]

I should perhaps finally remember to post that religion posting. Anyway, marvelous work, DarkCloud.

[Rasbelin]

Originally posted by DarkCloud
Anyone interested in helping with the list

Yes. I have already promised to send a more comprehensive posting on that religion structure, but is there anything else I could do? How about a website for The Civ IV List? At least I could offer space for it. Just let me know whatever you need, DarkCloud.

P.S. I could perhaps make a list on civs to be included.

[Kolyana]

Gaddammit, some of those ideas kick ass.

My 2 cents:

Improved diplomacy.
Sometimes I don't want to say "Get out of my land or declare war". Diplomacy can be somewhat more subtle than that, especially in modern times. I tend to lean towards "Well, what is that unit doing here? Where is it going? How long will be be within our borders?" Etc. No, that's not verbatim, but a toned down request for removal ... or a prompt passage through ... would be useful.

I'd like to be able to co-ordinate actions with the AI from time to time, rather than just have him running around doing his own thing. The possibility to re-create the anglo-american alliance of WWII comes to mind. Just something where you could say "Make this your primary target" would be nice.

I had a game in which the Indians moved 12 Elephants into my borders. I asked them to move, they apologized and did so. Then moved all 12 back into the same square the next turn. This went on ALL game. Can you imagine how annoying that was? There should be some way of demanding no return ... and the AI taking it seriously. There is no way that this was part of a master plan, it was just a stupid AI.

Units Movement:
The AI rarely has a plan when there is no war. However, 'he' insists on moving every gaddammed units anyway ... even if his has to move 20 cavalrymen around and around in circles. I'd like to see these units fortified when nothing is going on.

Workers:
Instead of fifty workers all running to irrigate the same square on the opposite side of the map, I'd like to see a level of communication and co-operation between them. Seriously, the Worker on AUTO wastes so much time, I have to micromanage them to ensure the job is done correctly. Pet annoyances:

1. Workers don't communicate. They all run to the same location to do the same job.

2. Workers bypass tasks that need to be done HERE in preference to tasks that need to be done over THERE.

3. Workers move up and down the same bloody road, almost as if they can't decide what they want to do.

4. Workers sitting in town, not doing anything, fully automated, with a thousand tasks that still need to be done. What *are* they doing?

[Zylka]

This thread is utterly useless.

[Zylka]

...BUT there are still some good ideas in it. Please forward these to the civ3 patch effort. The game mechanics may have been finished, but a lot of these logical ideas can and would fit in nicely.

[DarkCloud]

Wrong- we added that.

Thank you Rasbelin

I'll add all the ideas listed in this thread later- I scouted out some other ideas in the forum and added about 15 new ones.

Yes. I have already promised to send a more comprehensive posting on that religion structure, but is there anything else I could do? How about a website for The Civ IV List? At least I could offer space for it. Just let me know whatever you need, DarkCloud.

The posting would "merely" be a listing on the list
If you wish to make a website for it- you may, I have space as well- but I really don't have the time to maintain it; If you like, you could be the "official host of the Civ IV and Civ III patch List"
I would give you a specific Title: as it is the credits are:

Main Compiler: DarkCloud

and no one else oh well

If you would like to post little cuts out of other posts that are in other threads which expound new ideas- that is called "compiling"- if you gather the posts in this thread so I don't have to search too much- I'd give you a special mention

Thank you all

[narmox]

This might go in the face of civ-specific attributes.. Just something I saw in an old 1994 (or around) incomplete DOS game called "Antiquity".

In fact, that's where I was first introduced to resources Wanted to build a phalanx? ok, get some bronze and a bronzesmithy in your city then start building! Small boats could even travel on rivers, which was really useful. Caravans were used to bring resources to other cities (bronze, horses, elephants, wood, etc).

But on to the idea...

I can't remember if the game had governments, but it had castes: military, religious, worker (sounds like Minbari so far ), maybe scientific, not sure. And with sliders you could adjust how much power each caste had in your civilization. My memory gets foggy afterwards, but I'm sure that when you had scientific caste higher you'd get science discovered more quickly, but your military built up slower and all... But with more scientists and less workers, you'd get less stuff done, less food/production, etc. It was a very interesting concept. Too bad I don't have that game anymore :/

Where I'm leading with this is that, dunno, the concept of Governments in civ-games doesn't really represent the whole variety of governing bodies in the world. US and France might both be democracies, but they certainly don't work the same way. So adjusting various attributes to tell how you want to run your country might add more variety. Instead of going "Fundamentalist" you'd pump up your Religious Caste slider and get some bonuses from that. Instead of going "Communist" you'd pump up your worker caste. But maybe you don't want to be ultra-communist? So you'd also give some power to your Merchant caste, or your military caste. And so on... Changes wouldn't be immediate, just like revolutions things don't happen instantly.

Wow, now I want to find that game again... heh

[narmox]

I have found it!!!!! http://download.tiscali.de/dyn/go.js...li.de&id=88792

at least I hope that's the one...

[Wombat]

If we're talking about Civ 4, and not just an expansion pack. I'd like to see a far more fundamental reworking of the whole game system.

For instance:

I would like to play on a world which is actually shaped like a sphere. This would mean abandoning the square grid, as a square grid can't fit on a sphere. This would affect how cities fit on the grid and would affect the game at every level.

I think if we're talking about Civ 4 we should really hope for major changes, not just further tweaks to the system.

[Mongoloid Cow]

Hmm...

GOVERNMENTS:
- like the idea of castes, but also have an environmental caste (cheaper environmental structures (Solar Plant, Mass Transit, Recycling Centre) and slightly better resource management (environmentalists recycle everything after all))

RESOURCES:
- Copper (needed for some ancient and modern units)
- Tin (with copper -- makes copper units as strong as iron units, but cheaper)
- Sheep (Food/Luxury)
- Silver (Luxury)
- Stone (Strategic - for wonders/improvements : eg. Pyramids, Hanging Gardens)
- Nickel & Zinc/Lead (suggested in the FILES FORUM in "MOD: Copper, Zinc and Nickel Resources" by Cossack)
- Cedar (Strategic)
- Beer (Luxury)

IN SCHISM:
- Maybe if you lose your capital, instead of a recently conquered civ (if you conquered them or not) taking half your empire, your empire splits up into
a) Cities loyal to you (the largest and most powerful part)
b) Smaller, unhappy minorities (the civs that have been conquered)
c) The largest minority (religiously/economically) with a different name (eg: Persians - Parthians, French - Burgundians, Babylonians - Assyrians, Greeks - Macedonians)
It would make keeping your empire happy more important

RELEASED:
- When it is released, make sure it's finished!!!

[narmox]

oh yeah, something else.. "Dynamic Civilizations"

currently, all Civs are static. 4000 BC, you've got a bunch of nations, and provided none of them get conquered, you'll have the same 6000 years later. Totally unlike history.

Just look at the Roman empire... It was dominating the Mediterranean, then fell from its glory. Barbarians came, pillaged, tried to keep its culture, became France, Italy, etc... Wouldn't it be cool if Barbarians could come and pillage, capture cities (I want barbarians to capture cities again!!!) and, if they can hold on long enough, that minor tribe could become a major tribe! Heck I was so amazed in CTP when a small barb empire of 3 cities started building a wonder - I'm serious! (Heck I loved playing _as_ the barbs once or twice in civ2 yes it was possible, but boring after a while cause you had to wait till you got some units, never where you wanted them, etc...)

Hey that could add a whole new aspect to civ games. Start out as a minor tribe, try to survive against major tribes until you can go out and try to build yourself an empire that eventually could become a major tribe. Milestons could be building your first cultural improvements, holding out for a set number of turns, or anything like that that would elevate the minor tribe to the status of major tribe.

Also, cities that defect in CTP form their own civ. Kinda links in with the idea above. All about the schisms in empires fits here too.

Other stuff: have the option of destroying or not cultural improvements in a captured city. Destroying their temples, etc, would make them more angry but easier to assimilate in the long run (so higher short-term chances of defecting, lower after assimilation), while not destroying them would even out the chances over time (people less angry, so not as eager to just leave your nation, but they'll be harder to assimilate cause they got all their culture still with them).

I love the whole MAD concept of ICBMs above, with immediate retaliation and all.

How about revolutions might cause some of your cities to defect and form their own empires, unless there are strong cultural ties? (I'm thinking of the split-up of the USSR here). Makes revolutions a little more worrisome ("hm, should I revolt now when my fringe cities are verging on civil disorders, or wait a while but getting a worse economy cause my govt type can't handle my empire size/upkeep costs/etc?")

enough for now...

[Libertarian]

I suppose I would like to have more satisfying victory notifications. Something more than just a popup message box declaring, "You've won a culture victory". I dunno. Maybe a move or something.

Also, I wish you didn't have to launch the spaceship when it's built. I wish you could launch when you decide to. (I think CivI was like that. Or II?)

[Rasbelin]

Originally posted by Zylka
Please forward these to the civ3 patch effort. The game mechanics may have been finished, but a lot of these logical ideas can and would fit in nicely.

Sorry, but were actually planning the next Civ series game, Sid Meier's Civilization IV. This is not Civ III patch thread.

[LaRusso]

why are you posting civ4 stuff in civ3 forum?

[Rasbelin]

Okay, here it is, the new religion system planned by me for Civ IV.

As we all know, religions have been a significant part of the human life and society. They have given us answers to questions when science haven't been able to give us any proof why something happened. Religions and ideologies have given us guidelines on how to live. They have worked as a social network and as caretakers of the poor ones. This gives us good reasons to include the thelogical aspect into Civ IV, because it's too late for Civ III. I'm not talking of making a purely pro religion game, but a game that also includes one of the corner stones for the social system of civilisations.

General information

Every civ would have a state religion that would be practiced in all cities of that civ. The ruler of the civ could implement different religions that he would have the prequisites for. Each religion/ideology would have different effects and features. The ruler could also decide that there wouldn't be any state religion at all. The religions would also affect certain city improvements. The ruler wouldn't be able to adopt any religions/ideologies before inventing Ceremonial Burial. Before that there wouldn't be any common worship of higher powers. There wouldn't be any common religious city improvemnets like the Temple and Cathedral. Instead all religions would have their own ones. The Wonders of the World would still be the same as usual. Every religion/ideology would also have a specified attitude towards other religions/ideologies. That would give some benefits in decrease or increase of war weariness when having war against a civ with a certain religion. Example: If the Aztecs have Islam as their state religion, the war weariness would be slightly increased when fighting against the Islamistic Germans.

What new would be added?

- A new advisor, the Cleric Advisor. He would work as the spiritual matters and theology advisor of the player. Implementing state religions would be done in his screen, where you could also monitor the status of your empire's spiritual life.

- Different religions and ideologies reflecting the different eras. Each of them would have their own prequisites, features and city improvements.

- New RCIs (RCI=religious city improvement).

Example religion

Indigenious religion

Prequisites: Ceremonial Burial.
RCI: --
Effects: Additional luxuries in the capital city. Boosts any Despotic goverment by paying 1 unit's support in the capital. Decreases the overall science production per turn.
Attitude to other religions: Cautious.

Comments: Indigenious religions doesn't usually have any temples, so therefore they don't have any RCI. The effects in the capital reflects that the leader is often seen as a person comparable to the gods. Indigenious religions doesn't support science, so that's reflected in the drop of science production.

[Rasbelin]

Originally posted by LaRusso
why are you posting civ4 stuff in civ3 forum?

Protesting that there's no Civ IV forum?

[Rasbelin]

I'm going to compile a civ list for Civ IV, but I'd like to have opinions on this. Should we have 32 different civs and a 16 civ limit on the maximum amount of civs in one game (as in Civ III)?

[Purple]

(Items 1 and 7 edited for clarity.)

Personally I'd prefer to see some of the suggestions in this thread be included in a Civ3 patch, especially some of the interface and ease-of-use ideas. Add to them the following:

1) The Info Box (lower right corner) should show movement points remaining for the active unit including fractions .

2) Right-click on a tile should display (or at least list) not only the basic terrain type and resource, but also any enhancements (road, mine, etc.) and all units on it. Sometimes a resource makes it hard to discern whether a mine has been placed there, for example.

3) When a loaded transport ends a turn next to land or in port the units on board should ask permission to unload (as in SMAC).

4) I know it can be done in the editor, but it would be nice to be able to assign colors to civs at startup. Some colors (Russian brown, for example) are hard to see on the mini-map, Others are OK for AI civs (like the French magenta), but I'd prefer not to use them when I play that particular civ.

5) Revert to flags to identify nationality of units, and reserve color on the units themselves to make them visually more distinctive. On a high-res monitor they are so small that I can't always distinguish one type from another.

6) Optional keyboard control, via arrow, tab, or letter keys of all aspects of the game, especially in screens that require choices (some already have this, but not all).

7) Keyboard command editor (a la CTP).

Finally, a comment on the many requests for R to railroad a tile that has a road. I was annoyed at first by the change to shift-R, but now I prefer the new command. Why? Well, in SMAC I often inadvertently created a mag tube on a roaded tile that I thought didn't have a road. With the new command this would not happen. So, leave it as is (or make it an option). I haven't tested it, but it would be dandy if shift-R would also build a railroad on a clear tile, taking the appropriate number of turns, of course.

Cheers,
Purple

[Jer8m8]

About the civil wars/revolutionary wars: How about the ability for colonies to become cities? If you do not treat them well (forced labor, civil disorder) they might join with other colony/cities and become a new civilization

[Purple]

Replace the histogram with a simple line graph, which displays compared values more effectively, IMO. At the very least, how about a toggle?

Edit: grammar.

[Kolyana]

1) A window, always displayed, showing the characteristics and movement points remaining for the active unit.

Er. Isn't this in there already?

narmox - I LOVE LOVE LOVE your idea about the dynamic governments. I would DIE to see this in a game. Since Civ 1 I have imagined *MORE* governments in the game, a lot more smaller nations, some of which may grow into great nations, others which go by the wayside and are lost in history.

I mean, look at the modern world ... several GREAT nations, but also lots of little itty bitty ones that have not been around for thousands of years.

Barbarians settling and becomign empires (or at least some of them that may have an interest in this), or simply a dozen races that never quite make it ... and the birth of new races as the game develops.

YES YES YES YES YES.

Okay. Now someone make it happen.

[FrostyBoy]

I said NO

[Wernazuma III]

The synthetic rubber idea is good! But there are probably more resources which can be replaced by synthetics later in the game. I think of dye and saltpeter for instance. Maybe a city improvement could make them available.

Generally on resources: I think that having access to one oil should make it possible to have n units which require oil, having access to 2 oil you can have 2n units etc. (Same for all strategic resources). This would of course require more resources on the map. Thus most civs would be able to build some tanks i.e., but only those with much oil could build up a large army.