interesting info about the Colossus

Ray K · November 26, 2001, 09:26

picked this up from a book on the Seven Wonders. This is just FYI for those Civers that are interested in historical stuff like this.

1. The Colossus was made to celebrate a military victory and stood 120' tall.
2. It took 12 years to build (it takes me over a 1000 years in Civ3!)
3. It was made in the image of the sun-god Helios, who typically was presented with "sunbeams" on his head.
4. The frame was made of iron, since bronze was not strong enough to support something this size (the Civ3 prereq is Bronze Working)
5. No one knows the exact pose of the Colossus, but it was not large enough to straddle the port. It stood on one side.
6. The Statue of Liberty was modeled after the Colossus, which explains the points on her head (the sunbeams).
7. The Colossus stood for less than a century before it was felled by an earthquake. No descriptions of it before the earthquake remain.
8. When Arabs took over Rhodes, the fallen Colossus was stripped of its bronze plating. It supposedly took 900 camels to carry it away.
9. In the 1500's, there was a revival in Rome around the ancient Wonders. Many thought that the huge statue outside the Roman amphitheatre was actually the Colossus of Rhodes, transported to Rome by the ancient empire. As a result, they renamed their amphitheatre to the "Colosseum" and the name has stuck ever since.

Interesting info on the 7 wonders can be found at http://people.ne.mediaone.net/ruthe/...ient%20Art.htm

EEKthedog · November 26, 2001, 09:39

It took them 12 years because they used a great leader, d'uh

quinalla · November 26, 2001, 11:05

Thanks for the tidbit, it is nice to learn something about history every once in awhile

-quinalla

ThaddeusAlexander · November 28, 2001, 22:45

Just a quick tag, Rhodes was the city of unity and commerce, a city free of prejudice and the most multicultural city in the ancient med. sea (or so it is written), which is why the french recycled the idea when they constructed the statue of liberty.

As a bit of off topic, i'm always amazed at how much americans as a whole hate the french. it doesn't make sense to me. if it wasn't for the cash and all the weapons the french gave the US, they would have never been able to defeat the english and gain independance ... they had no weapons in the beginning - they were all smuggled from france!

And then, france gives the US this great landmark statue - the statue of liberty which pointed to france and welcomed ships to the land of freedom. the american symbol is french, we all know, so why does america dislike the french so much?

I never understood that ... maybe i'm not suppose to

Cheers
~Alex

HugoHillbilly · November 28, 2001, 22:50

Its because they are jelous :P

its curious they are great allies with the british now as well

ThaddeusAlexander · November 28, 2001, 23:03

Quote:

Originally posted by HugoHillbilly
Its because they are jelous :P

its curious they are great allies with the british now as well

Not really ... they need SAS help in afghanistan ... heck even us canadian have a better anti-terrorist unit than the US (although the british beat us out .. duh!)

But yeah - jealous is the right word

~Alex
(ps, where in ontario u from? i'm in toronto .. PM/E-mail me)

Falconius · November 28, 2001, 23:45

Quote:

Originally posted by ThaddeusAlexander
As a bit of off topic, i'm always amazed at how much americans as a whole hate the french. it doesn't make sense to me

Au contraire, mon frere! I'm American and I love the French. What gives you the impression they are disliked here?

OzzyKP · November 29, 2001, 01:00

Quote:

Originally posted by ThaddeusAlexander

As a bit of off topic, i'm always amazed at how much americans as a whole hate the french. it doesn't make sense to me. if it wasn't for the cash and all the weapons the french gave the US, they would have never been able to defeat the english and gain independance ... they had no weapons in the beginning - they were all smuggled from france!

And then, france gives the US this great landmark statue - the statue of liberty which pointed to france and welcomed ships to the land of freedom. the american symbol is french, we all know, so why does america dislike the french so much?

I never understood that ... maybe i'm not suppose to

Cheers
~Alex

My Impression was it was the other way around, that the French hated Americans.

Sabre2th · November 29, 2001, 01:26

I've never heard of any significant group of people that's really hated the French. Where did you get that idea?

UnforgiveMe2000 · November 29, 2001, 01:40

Sorry i just have to open my mouth.

But Statue of Liberty in my eyes is not the american symbol. To me to be a symbol of a country it need something that has withstood from the start of that civilization. Statue of liberty is a symbol not of america but of a FREE world, A symbol of what the United states offers for every legal immigrant that enters this country, the right of equal oppurtunities.

As for the american symbol is and always will be the Flag? no one can argue the importance our flag have withstood for almost the last 230 years. The statue of liberty was only built in the very late 1800's. I'm not arguing it's not symbolic but not of america but freedom and oppurtunity.

As for hating french, i don't and for the most part most people don't. I don't know anyone who does, well that's my 2 cents

wervdon · November 29, 2001, 02:05

I doubt the average american could tell you that French Revolution occured, that french is spoken throughout the world, or really anything about France or its history other than its in Europe and the capital is Paris. Thats probally a bit of exageration, but not by alot ;P

Do we hate the french? Hmmm, well some of our entertainment suggests we do, but really you can't go by comedy :P I know, speaking for just one american, myself, I don't hate the french. I wouldn't want to live in France though due to all the socialism, but thats just a political preference of mine, and not hate for the people. On the contrary, French history is more exciting than British or American History. One thing I've never really understood about them though is how they went from Napolean to the seemingly pacifists they are now by and large? (Im talking their stances on the death penalty and about the current situation with attacking countries over terrorists) I guess my history between 1810 and 1940 is weak or id probally be able to answer that :P

In any case, I dont think its fair to say we hate them, or we are jealous of them. I doubt most of us really even know who they are, and are just subject to misconceptions and assumptions (myself included most likely)

Ray K · November 29, 2001, 02:07

Quote:

Originally posted by UnforgiveMe2000
Sorry i just have to open my mouth.

But Statue of Liberty in my eyes is not the american symbol. To me to be a symbol of a country it need something that has withstood from the start of that civilization. Statue of liberty is a symbol not of america but of a FREE world, A symbol of what the United states offers for every legal immigrant that enters this country, the right of equal oppurtunities.

Well, the Statue of Liberty is a symbol of the Enlightenment, a period of time when the notions of individual liberty and secular government became dominant forces in Western culture. Its roots run deep, through Renaissance all the way back to the rationalism of Ancient Greece. When the Statue was built, the Enlightenment was in full swing, dominating the thinking of Western leaders. Having the Statue of Liberty and the Lincoln Memorial patterned after two of the Ancient Wonders of the World, both Greek, was no coincidence.

So, I agree with you. The Statue of Liberty is not a symbol for just America, even moreso today. It is an international symbol representing the highest ideals of Western civilization.

Most Americans today probably think of it simply as a tourist attraction and the shock ending for "The Planet of the Apes".

It's probably the #1 Wonder of our age. We would all do well to see it before some psycho tries to blow it up next.

Frito · November 29, 2001, 02:35

Well I hate the french. They always ignore my borders, demand tribute, will never trade me oil, and on top of that there pink!!!

Oh, you mean the real world...oh..uhh...humm...I really like france(europe at that) and I don't know any other american that hates french people either. I really would like to know why some people think Americans hate all these other people.

BTW I was in Paris a few years ago and the pople I meet there will very nice so I doubt the French hate Americans, just like the Americans don't hate the French.

Rathgar1 · November 29, 2001, 03:40

I Love the french!

Everday I eat French Fries, and I really like French Toast!

Dis · November 29, 2001, 04:09

because the french hate americans.

they burn down our culture inspiring McDonalds. Surely this is the greatest symbol of America. All hail the golden arches.

Dis · November 29, 2001, 04:10

that was sarcasm btw.

Badtz Maru · November 29, 2001, 04:17

Most of the folks responsible for the support we got in the Revolutionary War got their heads chopped off not too long after. I don't think any Americans have a problem with the French aristocracy, it's those dirty peasants who took over we don't like. 8^)

November 29, 2001, 04:26

Times change, we can talk about how we would never be here as well if it weren't for the british since we did after all for the most part come from England. But the fact is you can't be grateful to anyone forever. France is just 1 step away from Communisim and they're a pain the ass to deal with. During the gulfwar they wouldn't let our planes fly over them in order to get to Iraq so we had to go around. Do I hate the french? not really. Are they my favorite country? Hell no. My favorite country is between Britain and Austrailia. But lets just say I wouldn't be too sad if France suddenly fell off the face of the earth.

raiseupx · November 29, 2001, 07:51

Quote:

HugoHillbilly Its because they are jelous :P

hah why would anyone be jealous of socialist pacifists

xane · November 29, 2001, 08:18

I also play a game called WWII Online, there is a lot of anti-French humour in the forums, which is surprizing because many Americans actually play the game as French forces.

The freedom ideals that America was built on originated from both French and British revolutionary thinking, the French revolution was mainly a result on the success of the American one, as the same kind of free-thinking has existed as an undercurrent in Europe for many years, in fact long before America was envisaged as a separate entity.

E-God, I think you'll find you are talking about the Libyan bombing, US F-111s from British arifields had to route around France, but the Gulf War aircraft mainly came from NATO bases in Turkey or Italy, in fact, part of the ground assault was French during the Gulf War.

France may be a "socialist" country but its a million kilometres from Communism, they are in more danger of falling towards facism (like Austria) than anything else. In fact, France is more passionate about freedom than America is, the great divide falls on the issue of Europe which France would like to see as a second "United States".

MattHiggs · November 29, 2001, 08:48

I hope you can understand why the english hate the french

tonyhaug · November 29, 2001, 09:19

Hey, why on earth do you think Americans hate the French? What we hate is the egotistical way some Frenchmen have of insisting that French is the 'purest' language and how they guard their language from the corruption of other languages. If I want a hamburger in France, I want to ask for a hamburger not some other name that some Frenchman thinks is more 'French'.

But aside from that, especially since I don't speak French, there is a lot to like from France and the French. They gave us the best book and the best musical of all time in Les Miserable. They gave us the Statue of Liberty right after they secured their own liberty. They like to do things their way, just like the Americans, Canadians, Australians, Germans, etc. And French cooking is the best in the world also. Well almost. And the French people are beautiful, both the men and the women (I prefer the women and my wife prefers the men). My son visited France on vacation and they wondered around France for several weeks and enjoyed everyone they met, even those who wouldn't speak English to them. (As an aside, I went to Tokyo once and had my best time in a Japanese bar were no one spoke English).

So, put aside your steriotype of Americans. We DON'T hate the French. Sometimes we don't understand you, and sometimes we are annoyed by you, but so what. My wife annoys me sometimes also, but I still love her.

xane · November 29, 2001, 11:36

Quote:

French is the 'purest' language

Lingua Franca refers to the "accepted universal language", implying a common dialogue or means of communication. Quite often this is just a common language, or a pidgin form of another language, but in some cases it can refer to an invented language, like Esperanto.

The term lingua franca literally means "language of the Franks (French)" and was originally an Arabic expression, as their traders would constantly find themselves in situations where they'd deal with people who they did not share a common language with. The "Franks" did not specifically mean the French Empire at the time, the Arabs would refer to any Western European country as "Franks".

The expression got turned on its literal head when the French managed to secure a large chunk of the world through their empire, they decreed that the French Language should become the lingua franca or their empire, ironically, and it from this that came the determination to make it a "pure" language.

During the rennaisance, French was the "language of diplomacy", further boosting the French Empire's aims to make it a true world dialect, a true lingua franca on a global scale.

The English were the enemies of the French because their world empire matched, and later exceeded, the French one, the French tended to dispise the English language, which had become heavily modified by French words since Normandy invaded England in 1066.

Strangely, it was the loss of a colony that gave the English language a boost. Freed from imperialist tyranny, English speaking America went on to become the business centre of the world, and commerce took over from diplomacy as the common method of meeting foreigners.

Consequently, English became the lingua franca of the world, much to the extreme annoyance of the French

Purple · November 29, 2001, 11:39

Americans don't really hate the French. We just like to make fun of the French stereotype. The stereotypical Frenchie is snooty, probably because of the language (elegant, but too many vowels) and because they used to be a big deal in world affairs. So we get a kick out of kidding them. Try it. It's fun.

ThaddeusAlexander · November 29, 2001, 11:46

See ... i've never met any americans like you people then.

~A.

Aurochs · November 29, 2001, 12:06

Quote:

Originally posted by ThaddeusAlexander
As a bit of off topic, i'm always amazed at how much americans as a whole hate the french.
[...]
the american symbol is french, we all know, so why does america dislike the french so much?

I don't think that we, as a whole, hate the French. It's not exactly our most favored country though.

Things Americans don't like about France:

The language. Dunno why. Some people don't like the sound of fingernails being dragged across a chalkboard, I don't like the sound of French.
Always sides with Russia, China, and Iraq. (or so it seems) We're still a bit wary of those three. If you side with them, we're wary of you too.
Vichy France during WWII. Reticence to cooperate with NATO during the Cold War. Bailing out of Indochina and leaving us with the mess. (Though it was largely our own mess in reality, some do perceive it that way.) It's a reputation of 'When the going gets tough, the French pull out.' (Of course, all countries have spots on their history like that. We do too. France's just happen to stand out in our recent history.)
Socialism. Needs no more explanation.
The stereotype. Okay, that's probably not fair, but let's face it...people's opinions are affected by stereotypes. French are stereotyped as snooty and condescending, prissy, (but sleazy) wimps. Of course, everyone knows that not all French are like that, but when they say they don't like the French, that's often what they really mean...they don't like the stereotype that culture has associated with the French.
French people who go around posting/talking about how ignorant, non-cosmopolitan, and selfish us spoiled Americans are. How we're uncultured because we're not European. But then, I guess that's the standard stereotype of us Americans... (unfortunately fairly accurate)

Things I like about France:

The Foreign Legion.
That it's a nuclear power which may not really be a close ally, but is more likely to be with us or neutral than against us.
The brave French traders who explored our country back when it was all wilderness.
The Statue of Liberty, although she coulda been made a bit tougher-looking...maybe a braced spear instead of a torch, a few tattoos and a spiked leather jacket, and a confident expression of "Oh yeah, you and what army?". (cuz freedom's about defiance of outside control)

Well, that came out looking almost petty and flame-ish. Oh well, it wasn't intended as a flame, just viewpoint discussion.

JustJoe · November 29, 2001, 12:10

Do we hate the French? Nah, but they are fun and easy to make fun of...

It's those Damn Quebecois we REALLY hate...

Wolfgang76 · November 29, 2001, 12:10

The whole love/hate thing between France and the US is very complicated and dates back WAY to many years. If you think of it we started this whole afair prior to the US's independence. We fought on the side of the British in the French Indian War, then we got thier backing durring our revolution. From then on we have been interlinked. WWI, WWII and so on. If it hadent been for the Us in WWII (if nothing else in terms of building equipment) there might not be a France. The same can be said for the US in our revolution.
I Have been to France I can say that most are quite rude to americans but only as we are rude to them. They do not think themselves better just French. We (Americans) have a tendency to assume that everyone speaks English (which almost the entire planet does) and make them speak it rather than try French. I found I got the best serivce when I at least tried to order in French. Sure I goofed up a lot but they understood and appreaciated it.
Basically we have two very proud groups of people whom do disagree but are so intertwined that we always bump heads.

Elucidus · November 29, 2001, 12:14

Yeah, generalizing and stereotyping go a long way to annoy people.

Why is it brunettes are smarter than blonds?
Why do people with blue eyes hate cheeseburgers?

Okay so I made that last one up. But c'mon, sterotypes are stupid and all they show is your ignorance.

Funny how all of this derived from a discussion about the colossus.

BTW, the spikes on the statues head are supposed to represent freedom reaching the ends of the earth, or something like that. I don't remember everything. But each little detail about the statue has its meaning with freedom and liberty. I have more information about it at home.

I don't know anything about the Colossus, though, so maybe it is the same.

Ray K · November 29, 2001, 12:42

Quote:

Originally posted by Elucidus
Funny how all of this derived from a discussion about the colossus.

BTW, the spikes on the statues head are supposed to represent freedom reaching the ends of the earth, or something like that. I don't remember everything. But each little detail about the statue has its meaning with freedom and liberty. I have more information about it at home.

I don't know anything about the Colossus, though, so maybe it is the same.

The spikes on the head were directly from the Colossus, which was constructed to represent the god Helios. Statues of Helios had the spikes on the head (sunbeams), so Lady Liberty got them as well.

Also notice the distinctly Greco-Roman nose.