the leader generator

[havanf]

I haven't tried this but i don't see why it wouldn't work.

With my army i had, my veteren swordsman went to elite status after a battle. .

what would happen if the entire army were elite units?

you wouldn't have to worry about losing the unit (its a army that can withdraw). and they have a great chance of winning battles (at least one of the units does). and if its elite - you have a reasonable chance of generating a leader.

anyone had this happen to them?

it'd be an interesting approachat least

[ICMB]

Well, since you can't change the units once they are in the army, I wouldn't expect that you would get new leaders from units inside an army.

Has anyone witnessed a leader popping out of an army? I would think it is counter-intuitive to the nature of the army. That is, it's already got a leader, so why would another be created from it? Leaders are intended to represent the generals that rise above during a conflict.

- ICMB

[Blaupanzer]

Havenf, are you saying a unit inside an army got promoted? I've been told (on these forums) that units in the army don't change status (reg to vet, e.g.), can't be upgraded (e.g., rifleman to infantry), can't be removed, and can only be added to if one builds the pentagon. Has that been your experience as well? If all this is true, then an army should be composed of elite units, if you bother to build one. This gives the army more hit points.

[smellymummy]

units inside an army can be promoted (i.e from conscript to elite) if they win a battle. Whichever unit inside your army that destroys the enemy will be the one awarded the promotion.

And having a leader appear from an army is very posible I think. Since the fighting is done on a per unit basis, hence the promotions.

[N. Machiavelli]

Yes, units inside an Army can be promoted, but not upgraded. Nor by default can you remove units from an army. This can be changed by giving the Army the 'unload' function in the editor. It was the first of the changes that I made.

[mgblst]

You can change the units in an army, you just have to move back to the city where the army was made! i think? Come on, i read that somewhere.

[War4ever]

i dont' think so.... i can't make that option work

[havanf]

so - assuming you can't change units (unless edited)
and they're all elite (more hp)
and they battle on a one-one basis

then there should be leaders generated from inside the army (which i think does make sence cause leader do come from wars and within a larger army)

has anyone got a leader in this manner?

[gamma]

I've never gotten a leader from an army, but then I haven't used armies for fighting very much; I'm very fastidious with them, because they're expensive to replace.

I do notice a trend to end up with an army with one elite unit, the rest vets. This is because the elite unit tends to do all the fighting. If you want an all-elite army, it's easier to make elites separately and then load them. This is a good way to use your elite units, if you don't want to upgrade them to vets or regs.

You can unload a unit from an army, provided that army hasn't left the city in which you starting loading it with units.

This means you can build an army in Philly, load a warrior into it, then unload the warrior. You could then load two archers and a swordsman into it, then unload all three. I know from experience that you can build an army in Philly, then move it unitless to Dayton, and load it there.

I do know that when you build the Pentagon, all the previously existing armies you had up until then can suddenly be loaded with one more unit, even if they've been running around killing things. You merely need to move that army into one of your cities and load it. It may be possible to unload that unit and stick in a different one before you've left that city.

The general rule seems to be: once your filled army leaves a city, its inventory is locked. Again, there's the Pentagon exception. Other things I'd like to try:

- Build an army in Philly, load it with one unit, move it to Dayton, load it with another unit, see if you can unload unit #2.

- Build and load an army, fight with it until one of its units dies, but not all of them (you'd have to get a bit lucky here), see if you can load a new unit into the army to replace the defeated one.

[Auren]

Originally posted by gamma
- Build and load an army, fight with it until one of its units dies, but not all of them (you'd have to get a bit lucky here), see if you can load a new unit into the army to replace the defeated one.

I am not sure but I think that as long as army has even one HP all units in it are alive, so you always lose whole army, never just part of it.


EDIT:

Apparently I was wrong and you can lose part of army.

[sophist]

How can you lose part of an army? I thought that was the whole point....

I've noticed that veteran tanks that attack twice in one turn (and win) just about always become elite. Granted, this was as the Chinese, but I wonder if there's something there.

[havanf]

in relation to the other post on armies

2 potential uses

1) the leader generator - get more leaders using the army

2) Defense
You put an army of 3 pikemen (say) in a city behind walls with barraks - ouch

if you don't take the army in the first turn - it heals back in the next turn - basically people are gonna spend a lot of units to take out this unit (or army vs. army)

[gamma]

I once faced an army of tanks fortified in a town with barracks. It's actually not that bad. I simply brought in my 40 artillery units and hammered away. A fortified tank army with one hit point is no different than a single fortified tank with one hit point. Chances are one of the artillery barrages will hit the barracks anyway, and stunt the healing process.

Forty artillery bombardments often won't bring a full-strength army down to 1 hit point, for that matter. But that's okay as long as you then attack with YOUR full-strength army...

[MarshalN]

How often do people actually get a leader? I've had pretty bad luck in that respect. Mind you, I don't constantly fight wars, but every game I fight some wars, sometimes extensively, and I've only had one leader in my entire Civ3 career of about a week and half.

So, how do I get a stupid leader???? I want those free wonders!!!!

[gfrazieror]

How often do people actually get a leader? I've had pretty bad luck in that respect. Mind you, I don't constantly fight wars, but every game I fight some wars, sometimes extensively, and I've only had one leader in my entire Civ3 career of about a week and half.

I had one game where I got, through modern times, three leaders. First one was used to form an army. Other two were used to rush my Forbidden Palace and later the Cure for Cancer, mainly because I was in the middle of a major war (one of those marvelous MPP WWI chain reaction things), still in Democracy, and could use the extra happy citizen.

Even if you've got the Epic Myth, the odds are long against a leader showing up. An elite unit has to win a battle, and elsewhere I've seen that even then the odds are 1 in 16 that a leader will be produced.

[MarshalN]

Ugh, I guess I just have bad luck

[smellymummy]

i played one game as the romans and got 2 GL in the BC turns, with the heroes epic built. I got crushed by the AI though so I never got to see how much more GLs I would of acquired.

Armies and unloading... you can't unload the units, even if it says so in the manual or readme. That feature is broken, and like another post mentions, you need to add the unload ability to the Army unit, using the editor. I don't because it essentially makes armies last forever. Last thing I don't want to see is four to six AI armies running all over the place.

[Dyrlac]

Last night I was playing the French on a huge map 80% water, continents. (Admittedly on warlord) Shared huge continent with Rus, Germs, Brits & Greeks. Wiped out the Germs in short order and soon had a massive horseman army (using a sloppy variant of Vel's training camp technique, no iron so no swordsmen, decided I liked the extra movement point better anyway).

Anyway violating every rule of combined arms, I turned against the Brits, softenening up defenses with Vet horsemen then moving in for the kill with elites. Took out Brits' 8 cities (plus respawning) or so this way, always killing only with elite horsemen (Vet horsemen have no chance to kill against full-strength fortified spearmen, but they don't die). No leaders emerged. By this point I was expanding my own empire extremely fast and needed one for the FP. So I attacked the Greeks, again with horsemen (madness indeed), solely to generate one measly leader. Same strategy, soften Hoplites with Vets (lots of them), kill with elites, down go the 5 greek cities (trapped in jungles, ha), but no leader.

By now I was desperate, French empire, still in despotism had something like 60 cities (probably 30 or so training camps to rush horseys) in 100AD, even Paris was suffering from bad corruption. So I attack Rus, they were very far away used same strategy, but still no stinking leader. Had to quit, as I wan't going to manage a 100+ city continent at 1 shield 1 coin.

Lessons: 1) when you need a leader, you won't get one. 2) Horsemen, in sufficient quantity and keeping an eye on approach vectors, are the combined arms of the ancient era. I will never build a catapult again.

Dyrlac

[smellymummy]

never build a catapult again?! Catapults make for great defenses as it provides a free shot on attacking units, fantastic to soften up attackers. Granted if you play peacefully you won't worry about this, but there is another plus by building catapults early, and that is the foundation for empire wide cannons, then artillery and then radar artillery. Using the upgrade feature, catapults dont seem so useless after a while, especially when you reach to the point of artillery.

See those ships off my coast? move a few artillerys, reduce their HP to 1, and see them sail away fast

[Dyrlac]

Perhaps I should rephrase ... mobile units, used as I described in the ancient era, obviate the need for catapults on offense. Thus I will never include catapults (which need roads to travel through mountains or jungles and only hit 1/3 of the time) in my expeditionary forces again.

[Romulus]

Regarding the probability of producing leaders:
I have *mostly* been playing the Romans.
Some quick metrics:
1) Most games are Monarch with Standard Settings
2) The Romans are a militaristic so they do have an increased chance of producing leaders.
3) I usually fight two major wars (the first one in the ancient era with legions, the second with Cavalry or tanks based on game dynamics and diplomatic relations)
4) I only produce units in cities with barracks. So all combat units start at vet status.
5) Usually 10-12 (or so) turns are spent with units in ACTUAL combat, for each war (defense and offense). (this does not include building units, or moving them to particular locations, or lulls in combat)
6) Usually 15-20 units actually see combat through out each war
7) Of those 5-7 become elite.
8) I do not optimize my attacks for leaders, in other words I will usually lead of the attack with my best unit (the elite ones). This is because my primary concern is taking real estate, not leader generation, and I want to kill their best unit rather than make the AI's units vets or elite

I have had a leader generated in every game (expect one). Most games I get two leaders (once I got 3).