November 28, 2001, 04:46
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#1
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Prince
Local Time: 03:37
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Asia Pacific
Posts: 611
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Wonder Guide
Guide By Alex 14: Wonders
I wrote this thread to outline the scores I would give to the wonders in Civ 3 and added a comment for each one, hopefully beginners find this guide useful. It may apear that the marking system should be used as a measure of which wonders are better than others, or which wonders you should build, please read through the marking system carefully.
Its also a good idea to take note of the comment, as wonders have different effects depending on your overall civilization status. Also remember that no matter which wonder you build it will always add to your culture rating [see the manual(114) for a specific guide]. Don't forget that any wonder you let the AI build gives the AI that effect instead of you. I trust that this guide is helpful and interesting to read, please comment...
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Beginners Starting Guide: The Concept of Wonders (Page 99 of the manual)
Both types of Wonders are like extraordinary city improvments, in that they are structures (or achievments) that you can undertake. Unlike city improvments, each Great Wonder is unique, existing only in the city where it is constructed. Small wonders are not unique, but each civilization can build only one of each...
Points to Note:
Any wonder can only be rushed by a leader and no other way
Each wonder has a culture rating from 1 to 5
Special events trigger wonders, instead of just technologies
Wonders can only be destroyed if a city is captured, then razed immediatly
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Marking System:
5: Mandatory
4: Extremely Useful
3: Beneficial
2: Decent
1: Mediocre
Mandatory
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1) Required to win the game in some sort of way.
2) Or/And influences one aspect of your civilization that cause the others to expand. (eg. happiness promotes growth, growth promotes production ect...)
3) Or/And it's effects are massive. (eg. Great Library giving you nearly 20 free techs, or Wall Street, giving you large money bonuses for free ect...)
Very Useful
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1) Affects one aspect of your empire heavily.
2) Or affects many things in your empire equaling a reasonable effect. (eg. Heroic Epic, which gives your civ the ability to build better wonders faster)
Benificial
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1) (eg. Great Wall, provieds you with significant military advantages for a short period of time) Nice effects for a short period of time.
2) Or improving the effects of a city improvment.
Decent
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1) Giving you a bonus (eg. Money) for a short period of time .
2) Or given this mark because other better wonders are avalible at this time.
Mediocre
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1) Affects one very small aspect (eg. Sea travel) that gives you a good effect, but doesn't really do anything for your empire as a civilization.
Please note, a wonder cannot be given a 1 because it's effect is different to another wonder's, expansionist players may not find some wonders as useful as militeristic players or scientific players. For further example, The Great Wall will not give any effect to a civilization without walls, or The Great Lighthouse wont be benificial without a navy. Nevertheless it can be used as a scoring meathod depending on the effects of a wonder. In other words, a wonder with a 4 or 5 score, means it's effects upon your civilization status are much greater than a 1 or 2 score.
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Great Wonders:
The Colossus -- 2
The wonder gives you quite a bit of cash in the city you build it in, but many wonders like this one only affect one city instead of your entire civilization. After the ancient era you will most likely notice that your cash will be used up and so will the effects of this wonder, it's not really worth looking at.
The Great Library -- 5
Theoretically, with a good AI you could waste no money on science and still be up to date with the latest technology. One exception of this is that if one AI player is ahead of the world-standard science rate, the Great Library gives you a free advance whenever 2 other civilizations have discovered it. This wonder is perfect for harder difficulty levels, when you need to concentrate on other matters, on easier difficulties however, you may not find it as useful.
The problem with this wonder is that it is no longer obsolete by Electricity, but instead as soon as another civilization discovers Education it's effects are no longer usable. It is however possible to get every advance between Literacy and Education free, which is why this mark isn't compromised. Every wonder has been toned down in this game, but this one still stands out for players who can utilize it against the AI resourcefully.
The Great Lighthouse -- 1
Giving your sea units an extra move and allowing you to travel in sea squares is nice for naval players. But this wonder is too tough to build and other Great Wonders are available in this era, which are far more useful. In addition to this wonder only being able to be built in coastal cities, it’s really not worth the trouble to forge this great work. Unless a city is forced to change production to another wonder and this is the only one left on the list, don't build it.
The Great Wall -- 3
If you find time to construct walls in your cities, you will find this wonder very helpful against defence. Barbarian problems are also lowered with the effects of this wonder, you will find defence much smoother in general. The downside to this one is that it won't provided you with the city walls, even though they are cheap its too much trouble as they become obsolete when a city reaches 7. When you've just built a poorly defended city near an enemy opponent, this wonder will kick out any intruders to your civilization as long as it has some form of defence, build it only if you have the time and resources.
The Hanging Gardens -- 4
Happiness in this game is not very problematic on the easier playing levels, obviously when you progress to harder difficulties the wonder is much more useful. In an example where you have 20 (size 6) cities in your empire with all content citizens, this wonder would make 22 out of 120 your citizens happy. This will really improve your citizens opinion about you and trigger an overall happier empire.
This is one of those wonders that do not require any improvements; it affects your entire reputation instead of targeting individual cities. Consider it a wonder that is there to help you without any consequences. Even though The Pyramids are great for pumping up your civilization population with granaries, promoting happiness is a much more effective way in my opinion.
As I said before, this wonder is mandatory when you are playing on harder difficulty levels, but has a nice effect on your civilization on easier difficulties. As most of the effects in Civ 3 have been toned down, this one remains the same, just note - it's not the best wonder for happiness in the game. Although if you have an opportunity to build it, don't hesitate.
The Oracle -- 2
You usually don't find that you need to use this wonder after you construct the Hanging Gardens. Only on very hard difficulties this wonder is great for eliminating unhappiness by doubling the effect of every temple you possess. If you are playing on Monarch or higher you should build this.
The Pyramids -- 4
A free granary in all of your cities simply doubles each of your cities growth rate, which means you heavily boost the speed at which your empire progresses through the ages. Halting your growth at 12 is a hassle but once you uncap your growth rate, you'll find your cities will grow rapidly. Don't let the AI get away with this one.
Adam Smiths Trading Company -- 3
Pays for all your harbours, marketplaces & banks - a mild effect of Civ 2. However if you are planing on building a harbour, marketplace & bank in ever city this wonder is definantly should not be missed, you will also notice that the maintenance of your banks will no longer cross out their money output. If you are running out of cash because of maintenance (press F1 to check), build it.
Copernicus' Observatory & Newton's University -- 3
Both of these wonders are available in the same era, and have the same effect, so choose one, the other, or both . They both double your research in the city built, so if you build both in the same city, you can imagine it will produce a lot of science. You will proberly have more important jobs to complete in the Middle Ages, but once you have, these wonders are a pretty nice advantage.
Newton's University appears later than Copernicus' Observatory, so if you know another civilization is building Copernicus' Observatory, you should switch your construction. As I have said for other wonders, build it if you can.
JS Bach’s Cathedral -- 3
When your empire is spread across many (2 or more) continents, the effects of this wonder are significantly minimized. On the other hand, if you have a large civilization on one generously proportioned island, this wonder is quite valuable.
For example purposes, let’s say you had 40 (size 12) cities with 6 happy citizens, 3 content citizens, and 3 unhappy citizens in each city on the same continent. This wonder would amend this to 6 happy citizens, 5 content citizens and 1 unhappy citizen in each of your cities. As you can see, this is pretty effective in terms of happiness. I would suggest you build it if you have an island with at least 70% of your population on it.
Leonardo's Workshop -- 2
The upshot of this wonder is drastically minimized from Civ 2, all it does now is reduce the cost price of upgrades by 50%. Upgrades tend to cost you about 2-4 gold per turn, if they are averaged out, Leonardo’s Workshop will simple diminish this to 1-2 gold per turn. It’s a money saver, but you usually have the cash in your pocket for a full upgrade anyway, so I suggest giving this one a miss unless you have nothing else to build.
Magellan's Voyage -- 1
Gives your seafaring units one extra movement point to reach their location about 10% faster. Naval players should choose this one as an alternative to Leonardo’s Workshop, when it comes to the case when there’s nothing else to build.
Sistine Chapel -- 3
Build this only on harder difficulties
Like the Oracle, this wonder doubles the effect of every cathedral you own. When playing on Monarch or tougher, this wonder should not be missed; it quells civil disorder, discontent and despair. Making your citizens happy is a good civer’s approach to forging an epic civilization to stand the test of time.
On Regent and easier difficulties, don’t worry about constructing this wonder, unless your finding yourself tangled in happiness problems. Just don’t forget that unlike JS Bach’s Cathedral, you first need a cathedral in any city you want to be affected.
Shakespeare’s Theatre -- 1
Makes 8 unhappy citizens content throughout your entire civilization. If you use the example for JS Bach’s Cathedral, you would have 80 total new content citizens, this wonder will only give you 8. As you can see this is a large difference, so you really should build JS Bach’s Cathedral instead.
Sun Tzu's Art Of War -- 4
You need a barracks in your cities to upgrade your units, this is expensive and can waste time - building this wonder makes it much easier to accomplish preparing your civilization for war, fast. I try to build this wonder in ever game, because without it time is wasted on building a barracks that could be a better city improvement.
Hoover Dam -- 4
This wonder seems to work against pollution quite well, with the benefit of a hydro plant in every city, it can save you a lot of cash and time. I try building this one in most games.
UN -- 5
Making victory possible for some civilizations and ensuring high possibility of winning for yours makes this wonder mandatory, and therefore it earns a 5. If you are winning using military or science, you may not need this wonder, but if you feel you need an extra push in the direction of victory build it.
The UN gives you the nice sense that you have a permanent position of being triumphant over opposing civilizations. The wonder is not like many others in the game and consequently should be ranked in your own way. Building it just in case is not a bad idea.
Theory Of Evolution -- 1
Gives you two free secondary advances free, this is not too benificial towards your civilization, the wonder is much like a very small version of the Great Library. Boosts your scientific level up the science tree if you have already discovered all of the secondary advances.
Note: Secondary advances are those that don't require to be discovered in each era, see page 95 of your manual.
Universal Suffrage -- 4
In Civ 3 you are almost always likely to go to war more than 5 times in a game. Some governments have extreme war weariness concerns, building this wonder will dint them, but you will still have some war weariness issues. I suggest you build it, because it actually appears to work nicely on small wars.
Cure For Cancer -- 3
Vast cultural escalation is what makes this wonder useful to create. It’s actual effect is often overlooked, it may appear that it only has ½ effect of JS Bach’s Cathedral, but it actually affects every continent in your civilization.
Lets put another example into place, give the same situation as for JS Bach’s Cathedral, with the exception of having an empire spread across 3 continents. JS Bach’s Cathedral would give your total population 27(80/3) new content citizens, however Cure For Cancer would give you 40 new content citizens.
If you do have more than 3 continents in your empire, don’t build JS Bach’s Cathedral, but wait for this one as a substitute. Some wonders like this one are based around situations, so be cautious.
Longevity -- 1
By the time this wonder becomes available, your empire should have already grown enough. In my last game I had a size 2 town with the same production as a size 9 city, as a result growth isn’t as important as it may seem. If you didn’t build the Pyramids you might want to get this one, otherwise I wouldn’t bother.
SETI Program -- 2
Disapointingly, this wonder has the same effect as Newton's University and Copernicus' Observatory. Increases your science rate in the city by 100%, I don't usually find it to useful unless you have built Newton's University and Copernicus' Observatory, then your science will increase quite a bit.
Manhattan Project -- 2
The only project that lets you build a unit, the question is, do you want to build this unit? If so then you should build it, but otherwise, there is no point. If the AI is getting it then sometimes its best to let them get it without wasting your time.
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Small Wonders:
Forbidden Palace -- 4
You can re-build your palace in any city, but it disappears from your capital - this wonder changes all that by giving you an extra palace in the city of your choice (except your capital). Only build it initially if you have a massive empire, it should be constructed at the opposite end of your capital to quell corruption and boost happiness. The wonder is very useful, if you can find the resources to build it.
Heroic Epic -- 4
Increases the likelihood of leaders appearing by about 50%. If you fight a lot of wars then this wonder will become available, and you should get it. More leaders allow you to get more projects faster, that is why it merits such a high mark.
Iron Works -- 2
Just like King Richard’s Crusade (Civ 2) it boosts the production in the city built. Resembling Heroic Epic it also makes more projects build faster, it’s quite beneficial towards your empire, but not enough to win any awards.
Military Academy -- 4
I usually find that I don’t use this wonder in the middle ages too much, but later on it’s great for pumping out armies and conquering your enemies. You should build it, especially if your opponent has used the same tactic.
Wall Street -- 5
This wonder gives your treasury interest every turn, I'm not sure how it works exactly, but the cash pouring in is definantly noticeable. You usually find on average you get noticeable bonus amounts of gold every turn. This is one of the best wonders in the game without doubt, don't spend all your resources trying to be the first to build it, since it's a small wonder, everyone can anyway.
Battlefield Medicine -- 3
In Civ 3, when you fight a war, your units do not heal in an opponent’s territory, unless you have this wonder. The score of this wonder really depends on the rate of war your getting yourself into, if its just a border war or quick suicidal ambush, you might not need this wonder. If you are constantly in war, build it to prevent having to send your troops back to base, to heal, but for absolutely peaceful civilizations, it is useless. I would recommend you build this wonder if you can.
Intelligence Agency -- 3
Allows you to undertake espionage missions, you wouldn't be able to without it. But only build it if you want to, because that’s all it does besides up your culture.
The Pentagon -- 3
Raises the capacity of your armies by 25%, this is one of those wonders you should build in a city that has nothing of higher importance. The Pentagon is a nice military advantage, but if you have the Military Academy, it’s not that great.
Apollo Program -- 5
Like the UN, this is compulsory to win, except without this, space victory becomes unachievable. Only build it if you’re aiming for a scientific victory.
SMD -- 4
If you’re in a dangerous world, where nations possess nuclear weapons, then this wonder without question is necessary. It could mean the difference between the destruction and survival of a city; you might not need this until nukes are obtainable though.
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Thank you for your comments and I hope you found this guide enjoyable and interesting to read. With any luck I have made this article informative and helpful for novice players. Please post replies on how I can improve this guide with better information. I would also appreciate on support, with how I can make this guide lighter to read for beginners.
Thank you for reading my guide, please feel free to request support for the information provided.
Alex
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I'd finally like to thank these people for support, this guide has been improved greatly because of their comments.
Sevorak
Arrian
Dissident
& Others
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Version 1.2(Updated 11/30)
__________________
Alex
Last edited by Alex 14; November 30, 2001 at 20:12.
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November 28, 2001, 05:01
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#2
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Warlord
Local Time: 17:37
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 233
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Re: Wonder Guide (incomplete)
Quote:
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Originally posted by Alex 14
Guide By Alex 14: Wonders Of The World
The Great Library -- 5
Theoretically, with a good AI you could waste no money on science and still be up to date with the latest technology. One exception of this is that if one AI player is ahead of the world-standard science rate, the Great Library gives you a free advance whenever 2 other civilizations have discovered it. This wonder is perfect for harder difficulty levels, when you need to concentrate on other matters, on easier difficulties however, you may not find it as useful.
The Great Lighthouse -- 1
Giving your sea units an extra move and alowing you to travel in sea squares is nice for naval players. But this wonder is too tough to build and other Great Wonders are avalible in this era which are far more useful.
The Great Wall -- 3
If you find time to construct walls in your cities, you will find this wonder very helpful against defence. Barbarian problems are also lowerd with the effects of this wonder, you will find defence much smoother in general.
The Pyramids -- 4
A free granary in all of your cities simply doubles each of your cities growth rate, which means you heavily boost the speed at which your empire progresses through the ages. Don't let the AI get away with this one.
Adam Smiths Trading Company -- 3
Pays for all your harbours, marketplaces & banks - a mild effect of Civ 2. However if you are planing on building a harbour, marketplace & bank in ever city this wonder is definantly not to be missed, you will also notice that the maintenance of your banks will no longer cross out their money output.
Sun Tzu's Art Of War -- 4
You need a barracks in your cities to upgrade your units, this is expensive and can waste time - building this wonder makes it much easier to accomplish preparing your civilization for war, fast. I try to build this wonder in ever game, because without it time is wasted on building a barracks that could be a better city improvment.
Theory Of Evolution -- 1
Gives you two free secondary advances free, this is not too benificial towards your civilization, the wonder is much like a very small version of the Great Library.
Small Wonders:
Wall Street -- 5
This wonder gives your treasury interest every turn, i'm not sure how it works excactlly, but the cash pouring in is definantly noticable. You usually find on average you get about 1.4 gold every turn extra. This is one of the best wonders in the game without doubt.
Intellegence Agency -- 3
Allows you to undertake espionage missions, you wouldn't be abel to without it. But only build it if you want to, because thats all it does besides up your culture.
Please add any comments or compromize my marks for the wonders.
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I guess I never understand why people love the great library so much.
In my current game, every civ in the world got the education advance BEFORE anybody completed the great library.
Personally I'll give it a 0.
I think when we rate wonders, we also have to take into account how likely I can build it. It seems that the AI particularly favours several wonders and usually ignore some. The AI usually will build a wonder immediately if it gets hold of the necessary tech. However, they usually have a preference on which tech to research first. Even on an emperor level game I have found that its relatively easy to get the Hoover Dam and the Theory of Evolution wonders because the AI usually go after replacable parts, espionage and nationalism first. The AI also have a tendency to go after Republic before Monarchy, so its often easier to get the hanging gardens.
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November 28, 2001, 05:09
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#3
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Settler
Local Time: 18:37
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Germany
Posts: 20
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i think its nearly impossible to build the great library. the ai takes it as first wonder (sometimes after the pyramids). so you have only a little chance to get it before the others do.
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November 28, 2001, 06:02
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#4
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Emperor
Local Time: 19:37
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Belgrade, Serbia
Posts: 3,218
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Handing Gardens - 4
You can always build it first if you chase a Monarchy (wich AI doesn't)
Usefull early in the game, when there are not enought luxuries (highr diff.)
It is probably my first wonder of choice
Sistine Chapel -5 (you must have this on higher levels)
Pyramids - 5 for wanmongers, 3 otherwise
If you could just build those before AI...
If I have leader, and I am in war, then I get those insted an army.
Then I use a Despotisam rush tactics.
Leonardo Workshop - 3
Nothing specail. I usually have enough money for upgrades.
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November 28, 2001, 06:07
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#5
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Emperor
Local Time: 19:37
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Belgrade, Serbia
Posts: 3,218
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Sheakespear Th. - 0 (ZERO)
What's the point of this wonder.
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November 28, 2001, 06:13
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#6
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Emperor
Local Time: 19:37
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Belgrade, Serbia
Posts: 3,218
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Ironworks - 5
Mighty, if you ever get one.
Sometimes wonder are good, just because of triggering a golden age
English have 2 wonders for choosing:
Magellan or Lighthouse?
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November 28, 2001, 06:26
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#7
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Warlord
Local Time: 17:37
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 205
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Great Library is not bad, but of limited use. On the easy levels, it's fairly worthless since with the crippling penalties the AI faces, you'll research faster anyway. On the harder levels, the AI tends to grab wonders first. If you CAN get it, it'll serve you well until it hands you Education then coughs and dies. However, keep in mind that getting the Library also locks you into a build for Map Making and a quick galley or two (if you're not playing Pangaea that is) in order to contact more than two or three civs.
I agree with the Lighthouse assessment, in Civ2 the Lighthouse was pretty good for one of the less common strats focusing on vet ironclads, but it doesn't do that any more, and +1 sea move until magnetism isn't too impressive. Plus, it costs too much - 400 shields are far better spent on the Pyramids or even just moving your Palace to a better location for later expansion.
The Great Wall is a wonder of dubious value. Yes, doubled strength against barbarians is handy, and so is doubled wall power...but is it 200 shield handy? The cost of Great Wall is more or less 200 + 20 for each wall you want to put up. To get doubled defensive bonus for one wall you pay 220 shields. For two, you're paying 120 shields each - 20 to put up the wall, 100 as shared cost of the wonder - which is still....sub-optimal. You only get value (i.e. spending twice the shields for twice the defence) when you build 10 walls and the Great Wall, at which point you're spending 400 shields for 10 walls and the Great Wall, resulting in a cost of 40 shields per doubled-defence you want. Yet in the early game, it's often disruptive to the mad settler machine to build walls, and the walls go away at size seven, meaning that for any cities founded near rivers (of which there are many), walls are basically a zero-return investment. The only situation I'd even think of building the Great Wall would be if I somehow desperately needed a Chinese golden age. Not the most general of situations.
Pyramids - the only ancient wonder that doesn't expire. That earns points in and of itself, but the building it provides has been greatly strengthened in Civ 3 to the point where it can grant a serious speed boost to the REX phase. But...on the lower levels, you don't really need it, and on the higher levels you'll just be gazing longingly at the AI city which built it. Ancient wonders as a whole are a little too easy for the AI to pick up.
Adam Smith's...sure, it's handy...but is it 600 shield handy? To get to the Trading Company, first you need Economics (negligible cost though; on lower levels not hard to get, on higher levels you'll get it from selling your tech lead or some other way) and then you pay 600 shields (at the same period in which 400 will get you Copernicus' or Newton's). Keep in mind, a Marketplace's maintenance is only one. A Bank's is also only one. A Harbor's is only one. Only the airport has a maintenance of two. I think the Trading Company is nice icing, but hardly a priority with sweeter deals like Copernicus', Newton's, and the Sistine Chapel around at this time.
The Art of War - fairly valuable for non-militaristic civs. Barracks in every city, free, for the rest of the game. Barracks will always be useful, unlike trade improvements which should only be in certain cities anyway. Barracks in new conquests can be used to heal your attacking forces quickly, barracks in all your cities make them tougher to crack by needing to do more damage in one turn. Cost is 600 though, and there are better deals around at this time. Hardly just a consolation prize if you miss the others, though.
Theory of Evolution - it isn't assured to give you unneeded advances, it just prefers the lowest advances that you don't have. At high levels, research the cutting edge techs, trade for the stuff like Free Artistry and Economics, and Theory of Evolution will give you a nice kick up the tech tree. This is a good one to get just to avoid letting the AI get it, if you're playing tech-lead-sell.
As for Wall Street, all it does is give you an extra amount of gold per turn equal to 5% of the gold in your treasury at the end of the last turn, with a maximum of 50. If you're only getting 1.4 extra gold per turn, it means your treasury is 28 gold pieces, in which case you have more to worry about than what Wall Street is giving you. If you have 1000 gold in your treasury at all times, then Wall Street provides what is in essence a +50 trade bonus...which can be very nice. Pays for itself many times over, so build it early.
With the rather impaired intelligence missions in Civ3, Intelligence Agency isn't as necessary since your embassy can investigate cities for you at the same cost (bug?). Nice to have the options, I suppose, though some things about it truly puzzle me (the exorbitant cost at times to Steal World Map for example...just trade for it early, and for the rest of the game you can buy updates for pennies).
-Sev
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November 28, 2001, 08:14
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#8
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Chieftain
Local Time: 17:37
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 97
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Barracks are nothing to build in the middle game, shouldn't take more than a few turns. Besides, having a railway network means you can get away with only a few Barracks in principle cites, you can swap old and new units around in one turn and do the upgrades in one place.
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xane
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November 28, 2001, 13:50
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#9
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Emperor
Local Time: 09:37
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Dec 1969
Location: I live amongst the Red Sox Nation
Posts: 7,969
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pyramids is the best wonder in the game.... the rush strat makes this killer....1/2 time growth with small food boxes is even more important that in civ2...
its early culture, it never expires.. you prevent the ai from getting it....and you save upkeep of 1g per turn in all cities..
if i get an early leader i rush the pyramids over any wonder...... the only one i would stop and consider possible rushing ahead of pyramids would be sistine..... even then i prefer pyramids for the rush capabilities...especially on higher levels
the reason i do'nt mention hoover is that in the early to mid game you not going to have that option....
the GL strat is overrated and not really necessary...
just take by force what you would trade for early and save your money ....
the tech trading strat is sooooooo flawed... but then so is the despost rush......
__________________
Boston Red Sox are 2004 World Series Champions!
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November 28, 2001, 14:28
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#10
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Chieftain
Local Time: 09:37
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 38
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Regarding Wall Street, as it says in the Civilopedia, you get 5% interest on the first 1000 gold in your treasury. That is, if you have 100 gold in your treasury, you add +5 to your income. If you have 1000, it's +50, but at 2000 it's still just +50.
Very nice little income.
Regarding the Theory of Evolution, I don't think it is by rule "secondary" techs. I think that that is what people tend to get because they often skip some of the secondary techs as they research, as the wonder gives the cheapest techs you don't already have.
So if you are building the ToE, you may want to make sure you trade for some of those techs you skipped before you complete it.
- ICMB
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November 28, 2001, 15:22
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#11
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Deity
Local Time: 13:37
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Kneel before Grog!
Posts: 17,978
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Difficulty level obviously matters
I've been playing on Regent for a while now, and here are my thoughts on Wonders AT THAT LEVEL:
Great Library - 4, maybe 5. It's usefulness definitely depends on your specific situation. It will give you tech that two other civs that you have contact with have. If you only have contact with 2 other civs, this lowers its value. However, if you have contact with many civs, it really is Great and will allow you to concentrate on building up your cities, building up your army, or building other wonders w/o worrying too much about science for a while. It also pumps out all sorts of culture.
Sistine Chapel - 5. Crucial. Absolutely crucial. I imagine even more so at higher difficulty levels. Usually, it's the 2nd wonder I build (GL 1st).
Copernicus - 4. Nice, as it doubles your science in one city. If you can couple it with Newton, it's definitely nice. But you don't NEED it, at least at Regent.
Newton - 4. See Copernicus
SETI - 4. See above two entries... hey, I like science, ok?
Colussus - 3. Nice, but requires a coastal city with good production to build it... kinda depends on luck. The AI doesn't seem to prioritize it at all, though, so nab it if you can.
Great Lighthouse - 2. This will often allow you to make contact w/another continent while you are still using galleys. You will then be able to broker tech and maps and whatnot to everyone, whilst they cannot.
Sun Tzu - 3. Having a barracks in every city is a very nice thing, particularly for upgrading purposes. The AI goes straight for this one, though, and often around the same time as the Sistine Chapel can be built. If you have two good wonder-building cities, go for it. Otherwise, try to capture it later.
Adam Smiths - 3. Nice, as it lowers your costs. But not necessary.
Leo's - 2. Lowers your upgrading costs, which is always a good thing, but it's just not that great.
Pyramids - 4. Obviously, given the importance of food and growth early in the game, this is a good one. Then again, I've never built it, because the AI makes a BEELINE for it, and I want the GL. It's all about priorities. If you plan on attacking early, you probably want the pyramids. If you want to build up and fight later, build the GL. Building both would, of course, be fantastic.
Great Wall - 1. Garbage.
Hanging Gardens - 2 (Remember, this is for Regent). Nice, but you're only gonna get it if you go for Monarchy. As I think that's a bad idea (Republic is superior, IMHO), I feel researching for the HG is counterproductive. If you get the tech via trade or hut or something, then yeah, go ahead and build it.
J.S. Bach - 3, 5 if no Sistine. Happiness wonders are always good to get. Sistine+Bach+Univ. Sufferage = war under democracy is bearable.
Oracle - 2, maybe 3. Again, it's a happiness wonder, and those are nice. Then again, it (like the HG) expires. Still, a nice stop-gap before the Sistine. Nice culture, of course.
Univ. Sufferage - 4. I've never NOT had it. I imagine fighting late in the game under democracy would suck if I didn't.
Theory of E - 4. Two techs is two techs. This allows you to beeline ahead after something specific, and allow the wonder to backfill for you.
Hoover Dam - 4. I love it, but I suppose it's not critical.
Cure for Cancer - 3. Nice, happiness is always nice.
Longevity - 1. Garbage. Your cities should be close to maxxed by then anyway, it's near the end so you don't get the "benifit" for long, and it often results in cities growing beyond their food capacity and starving back down one point. Silly.
Minor Wonders (frankly, I build 'em all, so the ranking is kinda unimportant):
Forbidden Palace - 5. Clearly.
Wall Street - 4. Money for free? Where do I sign up?
Heroic Epic - 5. If you have the opportunity, build it. Anything that increases your chances of getting a leader.
Military Academy - 3. Armies aren't really all that great, and cost a ton to build, but can be useful.
Ironworks - 5. Totally dependant on luck (coal/iron in city radius), but sure is nice to have.
Intel Agency - 4. Espionage is largely worthless, EXCEPT for the fact that, once you plant a spy, you can review an opponent's entire order of battle on the military advisor screen. THAT is nice. The actual advisor guy sucks (yeah, my army may have less # of units than an AI civ, but if I've got Modern Armor and he has Infantry and Cavalry MINE IS NOT WEAKER!)
Battlefield Medicine - 4. Nice, but then again, if you are depending on units healing in hostile territory, then what type of war are YOU running?
Pentagon - 3. Makes armies stronger. I imagine an army of 4 mech infs would be a tough nut to crack.
Missle Defense - 5, if needed. You let the AI get nukes?? Just kiddin', of course it can and will happen. Stopping 75% of them, I imagine, would be nice.
Did I miss any?
-Arrian
__________________
grog want tank...Grog Want Tank... GROG WANT TANK!
The trick isn't to break some eggs to make an omelette, it's convincing the eggs to break themselves in order to aspire to omelettehood.
Last edited by Arrian; November 28, 2001 at 15:52.
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November 28, 2001, 16:42
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#12
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Chieftain
Local Time: 17:37
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 83
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I don't know why you all don't like the Lighthouse. AI is agressive exansionist and having triremes explore the seas and finding empty islands to colonize is a very good bonus.
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November 28, 2001, 17:07
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#13
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Warlord
Local Time: 19:37
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: Düsseldorf
Posts: 171
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Lighthouse = 5
But only at large maps with lots of water, islands and continents.
Galleys may cross the oceans, and you will be the first player at
empty continents. Grab as much land as possible - land which
could have strat resources later in the game.
__________________
For those who fight for it, life has a flavour the sheltered never know.
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November 28, 2001, 17:15
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#14
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Chieftain
Local Time: 19:37
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 57
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The Great Wall is useless. Your cities (ok, were talking two weeks experience) will be over size 6 in no time. Its only good in the very beginning of the game against barbs, but you don´t have the time for this luxury if you want to beat (or at least keep the same pace as) the AI in expanding, and throwing in a few cultural improvements in between.
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November 28, 2001, 17:30
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#15
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Warlord
Local Time: 17:37
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Chicago Area
Posts: 119
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Wonders at Higher Levels
I think the wonders have all been toned down so much in Civ3 that there's really no make or break "must haves" now. With one exception, which no one has mentioned here. I'm a Monarch player (who doesn't play despot rush) and have won games where the first wonder I was able to beat the AI to was Hoover. Not having the others didn't hamper me.
You don't get many chances at wonders on higher levels. It's very difficult to get any of the early ones. Even on Monarch. But if a close neighbor has one of the choicer ones, it may be worth a war to grab it.
Oracle/Collasus/Hanging/Sistene/Bach - happiness wonders very important at higher levels, though not the all powerful ones they were in Civ2. E.g., Still must have Cathedral in cities for Sistene to be effective. Haven't played Emp/Deity yet, but have gotten away without any of these on Monarch and had a long war in a Democracy. If you've wheeled and dealed your way to nearly every lux resource, you can just about get away with it.
Pyramids are always good, like they were in Civ2. But it's a double edged sword. Higher pop means higher unhappiness on upper levels. That and with Sanitation coming so far after you've maxed out @ 12 pop, it's doing you no good for a long time. Still good to have if you can get it. Which you likely won't except by conquest on high levels.
I think the GL is overrated. Even on higher levels where you fall behind. You can usually keep pace w/ trading and creating vassals that give tech in tribute. Nice to have, for sure, but not essential. The culture is very very nice, though.
Sun Tzu a great for war mongers. Every unit a vet is sweet. But this can be compensated for in most cases. Build barracks in highest production cities and crank units mainly from them.
Great Wall - yawn.
Lighthouse - I haven't played Archpeligo yet, but I'm thinking it moves up several notches on a water world.
Magellen - like Light House, more important on water worlds, otherwise low priority.
Smiths - not sure how cost effective this one is. I don't strive for it.
Theory of Evol - so so, ok I guess if it gives you tech lead in tight high level game.
Copernicus/Shakespeare/Newton - these "single city" wonders I generally give low priority. I'd rather use shields on something that has empire-wide effects. If an enemy has it, though, I would consider conquest to grab it.
Leo is good, but only if you have a ton of units to upgrade. The savings in cash is nice.
Hoover is fine, but I usually have so many pollution cleaning slaves by this time that I find I can do without it. Slave hoardes can mop up any green slime in single turn.
SETI - is it just me or does it seem like this doesn't do so much for you in Civ3. Comes late in game, only works for cities w/ Reseach Lab, and by this time you're usually at the 4 turn wall on research anyway.
United Nations - If I build just one wonder the whole game, this one's it. Very surprised no one has mentioned the UN. It's the most important wonder to have, bar none. Control of concil means you decide when a diplo vote will take place. No control of it means you can lose when you otherwise have game under wraps! What other wonder can cause you to lose a won game if you don't have it. I mean, c'mon, a must have in most situations. Obviously useless with Diplo victory turned off. I save a great leader especially for this one if I can.
Manhatten - let the AI build it, why waste shields on it.
Cure for Cancer/Longevity/SDI Defense - too late in game. Game's long over by this time w/ my ship finished or the other civs finished. At least in my games so far.
Small wonders:
Forbidden Palace - most important small wonder. Period. Even more important than a lot of the Great wonders. Placed properly, it doubles the production of a large empire. Often worth burning a leader on.
Apollo - duh, a must for space race win.
Wall Street - always build, especially if you have large cash balance.
Intell Agency - yeah, spy game really sucks now. Who can afford to at these prices? But it is worth it just to see enemy battle order. That's nice.
Iron Works - omigod! If you've got the resources to build it, do it! You'll crank out a modern tank a turn, SS parts in 2-5 turns in the late game from the super producer city that has this baby.
Heroic Epic/Military Acad - on the fence w/ these. Not too fond of armies, but I suppose I should try building one w/ first leader, get army win and build these for more wonder-producing leaders and armies w/o sacrificing having to sac leaders.
Battlefield Medicine - so so. Yeah, if you're depending on healing on enemy territory, fine. Might be good for overseas wars where you have no base.
e
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November 28, 2001, 17:49
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#16
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Deity
Local Time: 10:37
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Las Vegas
Posts: 17,354
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here's mine. I am currently playing 3rd level (monarch?). I'm still finding my way in this game, so the ai has a tech lead on me and has better production cities. I missed out on every singe wonder except colossus until I finally got to the industrial age. I nabbed universal suffrage and the mighty hoover dam.
Ancient:
Colossus- 3: I rate it this high because it is attainable. the ai never really goes for it fast. but the effects aren't all that great.
Great Library-3: expires too early imho. and nearly impossible to get
great lighthouse-2: a little bit easier to get, but I still can't get it. good to keep out of the ai's hands. keeps the ai expansion down for a while
great wall-0: worthless. build offensive units instead. defense is worthless in this game. all offense is what you need
Hanging Gardens-2: I need this one, but still too hard to get since I went for republic
Oracle-1: useful if you don't get hanging gardens. I didn't get either one and I'm surviving.
Pyramids-4: too much growth can be difficult to manage, but the pyramids makes things so much easier. get it if you can, but I never can.
Medieval
Adam smiths-4: I had money problems in my last game. I would have liked to get this. but if you don't build those improvements in most of your cities don't bother
Copenicus- 3: too figgin' hard to get. good for a super science city though
Bach's Cathedral-3: good if you don't get sistine chapel. but I couldn't even get this one
Lenardos- 4: like I said I had money problems. this makes upgrading affordable, and the ai will respect your upgraded military more
Magellons-3: something I always got in civ2. no more. too hard to get, but very nifty to have
Sistine chapel-4: hugely important. I couldn't get it though
Newtons-3: same as copernicus. nice to have for science city
Shakespear-0: worthless. get it only if you are going for culture win
Sun Tzus-4: good for peacniks or warmongers. nice to have barracks on newly captured cities. Or have them on fringe cities with high corruption
Industrial:
Hoover Dam-5: highly important. Because you will likely be equal or behind in tech. You need production to win the game for you
United Nations 0 (5): only useful for diplomatic victory- duh!
Theory of Evolution-2: too hard to get
Universal Suffrage 3- much easier to get. and it helps with war in democracy
Modern:
Cure for cancer:3- should get this if you miss sistine chapel or bach's cathedral
Lengetivity- 2: get this if you never got pyramids
SETI- 2: not as useful this late in game. but can give much needed kick to science city if you have one
Manhatten project-1: unless you like nuclear war...
__________________
Focus, discipline
Barack Obama- the antichrist
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November 28, 2001, 17:51
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#17
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Deity
Local Time: 13:37
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Kneel before Grog!
Posts: 17,978
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UN
Doh! I did totally forget the UN. You're right, of course. The UN is a "5". If you don't build it, you're toast, I would think. I've always built it... and the one time I held an election, I lost (hell, a civ that was actively AT WAR with my opponent in the election voted against me).
I also forgot Apollo *smacks self*, probably because the UN and Apollo are so obvious they didn't occur to me.
-Arrian
__________________
grog want tank...Grog Want Tank... GROG WANT TANK!
The trick isn't to break some eggs to make an omelette, it's convincing the eggs to break themselves in order to aspire to omelettehood.
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November 28, 2001, 17:51
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#18
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Chieftain
Local Time: 17:37
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 44
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Heroic Epic = more leaders = more rush-built wonders, spaceship components, etc. I give it a 5.
Pentagon is worth it if my theory is correct, and the AI simply abhors attacking a full-strength army. Put an army in a city (provided you're sure the city won't defect), and the AI will likely never even try to attack it. Meanwhile, think of it as allowing you to add up to 5 hit points to your armies. 20-point units walking around are literally juggernauts.
Copernicus, Newton, and SETI are worth putting into a coastal metropolis near a river, in a democracy, perhaps with the Forbidden Palace in the same city. This maximizes commerce and results in a -huge- science production. It's harder than you might think to maintain that 4-point wall in the modern era, especially if you're at war (and communist); you'll need all the tech help you can get.
__________________
gamma, aka BuddyPharaoh
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November 28, 2001, 18:01
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#19
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Deity
Local Time: 10:37
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Las Vegas
Posts: 17,354
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I forgot to mention. Iron works kicks all ass. just have plenty of workers for pollutino control. This helps get those late game wonders.
__________________
Focus, discipline
Barack Obama- the antichrist
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November 28, 2001, 18:07
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#20
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Warlord
Local Time: 17:37
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 158
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Unlike others, I think JS bach is better than what most people think. It's a good alternative especially if you play on pangea or continents with most of your city on one continent. It really saves you a lot of stress trying to keep people happy, and it's actually attainable (on regent/monarch anyway).
Great Library is just too hard to get. Even if you make a beeline for literacy I still wonder if it's possible to get it built in time. On higher levels I suspect the chance is next to none. Might as well go for something else since this one's as good as gone.
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November 28, 2001, 18:16
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#21
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Warlord
Local Time: 17:37
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Chicago Area
Posts: 119
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Quote:
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United Nations 0 (5): only useful for diplomatic victory- duh!
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You give it a zero and than a (5). 0 for those going for non-diplo victory? 5 if you're going for diplo? Is that how I read this? If you're saying that if the OPTION for diplo win is off altogether, than yes, UN is a big waste. Otherwise, it's a five no matter what type of victory you're going for.
Let's just clear up one thing as I think it's caused a lot of confusion. The UN is more important to you when you're NOT going for a diplo win. If you're a genocidal warmonger, you're not going to get votes in the UN. Or even going for a peaceful space win, but another civ is more well liked than you; they'll build it, hold the election, get elected before you launch, and you're sitting there going "WTF". Therefore, it's critical that you have control of the UN so you can endlessly filibuster on the vote.
If you're going for diplo win, you want to be the one who chooses when the vote will take place to assure yourself of victory. Maybe there's one swing vote you have to have and need time to butter them up. Also, if you're the one everyone loves and think you're a shoe-in for diplo win, but the warmongering Zulus get UN, THEY will filibuster on the vote forever and you'll never get it.
Anyway you slice it, if diplo win is turned on it's a FIVE no matter what kind of victory you're going for. You just can't let it fall into AI hands. It's the most expensive wonder of all of them for a reason. It's the most important one to have. Save a leader to rush it. It's a no brainer.
e
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November 28, 2001, 18:19
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#22
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Warlord
Local Time: 17:37
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Chicago Area
Posts: 119
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Quote:
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[Iron works] helps get those late game wonders.
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Uh, you'll get EVERY late game wonder with that puppy. SS parts every other turn. Man, a shield monster. I think I had 130 shields a turn buzzing out of the city I built that one in. Added factory, the most updated plant, wow!
e
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November 28, 2001, 18:20
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#23
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Deity
Local Time: 10:37
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Las Vegas
Posts: 17,354
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you explained it much better than I could. Thanks. I do wish there was a council like in SMAC though. It would make UN more useful.
P.S. put a nuke plant in the city with iron works. like you need more production. but it is nice to have
__________________
Focus, discipline
Barack Obama- the antichrist
Last edited by Dis; November 28, 2001 at 18:29.
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November 28, 2001, 20:47
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#24
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Prince
Local Time: 11:37
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 532
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Great Library = good!
Great Library - 5:
If you're on a Pangaea, the Great Library's requirement that you know the other civs from whom you get a Wonder is considerably eased. As far as the pace of building goes, I tend to follow a different strategy from the REX being advocated on these boards. Generally I get a settler or two, 2 defenders, and a temple in my capital and then start on the Pyramids. I research towards Literacy (after Iron Working, the Wheel, and a couple others) as quickly as possible. Meanwhile the AIs are zooming ahead of me in terms of cities built. I just make sure that my other cities have at least a temple. I don't worry so much about a military because this I'll generally only have a couple neighbors, whom I appease, and then more distant civs that I don't care too much about angering. If they show up on my doorstep, I can appease them or possibly boot them. Either way, I'm not going to waste too much on them. So anyway, I start building the Pyramids pretty early. As soon as I get Literacy, I switch over to the Great Library. If I have a strong enough military (horsemen/swordsmen are sufficient at this time), and I'm close enough to completion to be fairly certain of getting it, I'll go to a low science rate (just enough to get an advance in 32 turns). I aim for the ones the AI ignores early on (like Currency or Code of Laws) because you can make hay with those. Even when I do get the Great Library, I don't kill the science rate; I don't really see it as an advantage so much as it is a way to catch up with the AIs. The techs I get from it I sell for as much as possible, as well as the ones I get myself deeper in the tree. So what if the Great Library is only useful partway into the Medieval period? It gives me some valuable catching up. And don't forget the 6 culture points. And remember that the 6 double to 12 after 1000 years. So if you finish the Great Library in 500BC (I finished it in a recent game in 800BC), that means it's producing 12 culture in 500AD, which is not so long after, given the turn length at that time. Don't knock the Great Library; at the higher levels, it's great for catching up and making dough. If it lasted beyond Education, it would be a hugely unbalancing bonus.
T of E: 3
As far as the Theory of Evolution goes, well, you'll probably get techs you skipped for good reason, but consider what will happen if the AI gets it.
Military Academy: 3
Armies are useful for knocking off the first few strong defenders in a city, especially against a militaristic civ where you don't want to give the unit a chance at promotion (which means the attack/retreat of horsemen/knights/etc. isn't quite as good).
Battlefield Medicine: 0
I've never found this to be useful. But I retreat wounded units along railroads built just behind the front line, so I guess I wouldn't really see much use.
Longevity: 1
Agreed. Almost useless.
Universal Sufferage: 5
It seems to reduce war weariness (at least partially) by making it take longer for your citizens to get weary. Consider how much 2 or 3 turns (not exactly sure how long it is; could be more) would help your wars from the late Industrial on. Your units move so fast that 2 or 3 turns could net you 5 cities easily, if you strategize properly.
Hoover Dam: 5
Gotta have the free extra shields to pump out your spaceship if the AI is close. Or if you fight a lot, not having to waste a few units worth of turns to build another powerplant is a definite plus.
JS Bach: 3
Pretty handy. But I didn't get it in the last game and did just fine. Just make sure you secure all the luxuries you can get (militarily, preferrably, so you don't spend $$$) and build marketplaces. By the time that's not enough (with temple, cathedral, and possibly colosseum), your cities are pretty huge. Two citizens is helpful early on, but the Sistine Chapel's doubling of cathedrals nets you 3 more happy citizens. And I think JS Bach is restricted to that continent, right?
Sistine Chapel: 5
Above reasons. And 6 culture? Plus if you build it early, you get the double culture. I got it in 550AD with my last game.
Newton/Copernicus: 4
And they're great with increasing culture. You can get Copernicus early enough that you'll get the 1000 year kick to its culture (I got mine in 720AD, which gave just a little time at 12/turn).
Smith's: 4
definitely a good one to get. just paying for marketplaces justifies it
SETI: 2
comes too late to be that useful. Wait, scratch that. If you're in a tight spaceship race, then it could be useful. Otherwise not.
Manhattan: 1
I agree with eMarkM. Let the AI build it. If they're building it, let them. Use your shields to work on the Palace or something else so you can get your actual nuke units before them.
Heroic Epic: ?
I can't tell if it works. I got one leader really early on which I used to build an army that won a lame battle. Then I built the HE and got nothing until I got two leaders in a few turns about 30 turns before winning. If it worked more reliably, that would be good.
Pyramids: 3
I guess they're convenient. Growth of my cities generally hasn't been a problem, but I'm not a slave driver and I don't REX very much. I'd rather just capture them if possible ;-)
United Nations: 2
The Diplomatic Victory seems broken. The only thing that I'd do is build the UN when I forgot to disable the DV just so I could prevent the AI from winning.
Pentagon: 2
a 4 unit army isn't much of an improvement over a 3 unit army.
Currently playing Standard/Large Pangaea/Normal/Warm/Roaming/Monarch
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November 28, 2001, 22:31
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#25
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Prince
Local Time: 03:37
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Asia Pacific
Posts: 611
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Thanks for the comments and observations...
Thank you for your comments, I have updated the guide with more comprehensive information and 2 new wonders. I have also made the Theory Of Evolution wonder more understandable, obviously it's effects are less than those in Civ 2.
__________________
Alex
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November 28, 2001, 23:07
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#26
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King
Local Time: 12:37
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Sep 1999
Posts: 1,657
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I think the TOE is a great wonder. The key is to be careful to have traded for all of the secondary techs. The AI will sell them for a song. Buy all of the techs the AI has researched. Time the completion of the wonder to get it the turn after you complete your next new tech and don't spend anything on tech the turn that you build it.
This will give you a minimum of three tech lead. From this point just sell techs and you have a win.
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November 28, 2001, 23:38
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#27
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Prince
Local Time: 01:37
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Dec 1969
Location: Singapore
Posts: 654
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Regarding the Great Library, I actually got Education from the Great Library. Before this, I checked with the Persians and found that they had already discovered Education. So perhaps, GL expires only if you discover Education.
Then again, it could be a bug because I captured the GL instead of building it. I had also captured the Hanging Gardens before, and the effects never expire until the end of the game.
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November 29, 2001, 02:42
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#28
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Prince
Local Time: 03:37
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Asia Pacific
Posts: 611
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Interesting, I've never seen that happen, it must be a bug.
-----
I've updated the guide again with the following great wonders:
The Colossus -- 2
The Hanging Gardens -- 4
The Oracle -- 2
Copernicus' Observatory -- 3
Newton's University -- 3
__________________
Alex
Last edited by Alex 14; November 29, 2001 at 02:49.
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November 29, 2001, 04:41
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#29
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Prince
Local Time: 11:37
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 532
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I too have gotten Education from the Great Library. Seemed kind of odd at the time.
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November 29, 2001, 05:08
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#30
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Settler
Local Time: 00:37
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Thailand
Posts: 5
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Shakespeares is good but it has to be in the right place. I have it in my mega production city. 1 square grasslands or 5 plains 3 with water, gives massive food, the rest are all hills and mountains. Production with mines and R&RR is huge. Shakespeares makes sure that this city never stops working.
ToE is better than most of you think. I have found, at least in my latest game that what it gives you depends on not just the cheap advances but also what you are currently researching. I saved the turn before I got ToE and experimented. Basically it seems to give you things not from the thread you are currently researching. e.g. I had replaceable parts and was currently researching either steel or refining I got atomic theory and electricity. But when I was researching atomic theory I was given steel and refining.
This means lots of time to complete hoovers, and with my mega production city no probs.
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