corruption reduction ideas

[sophist]

I don't favor just reducing corruption outright; I think for a city half a world away to be almost completely useless is, well, reasonable. But I think there should be in-game means to reduce the corruption in that city. I don't think all of the below should be implemented. They are in order of my preference.

1) Supreme Court/High Court/etc. Small wonder - increases effectiveness of courthouses (I've read that 25% is the current corruption reduction; maybe to 50%?). This could be a small wonder that requires N courthouses before is possible to be built. Of course, since its effects would be useless without a courthouse, that might not be necessary.

2) Multiple Forbidden Palaces. Right now it says that you can only build a Forbidden Palace if you have 8 cities (on a standard map). Maybe make it so that you can build an FP for every 8 cities you have (like the armies/cities limit). Might have to change the cost (in which direction I'm not sure).

3) Increase optimal cities/map over time, probably with each new era. So for a standard map, the optimal number would be 16 in the ancient era, 24 in the medieval era, 32 in the industrial era, and 40 in the modern era. Numbers of course subject to tweaking.

4) Reduce distance penalties over time, again possibly with each new era.

5) Reduce distance penalties with the discovery of new technologies. Namely, for overseas cities, discovery of magnetism and navigation would reduce the distance penalties. For cities on the same continent, steam power would reduce corruption (maybe the same as the above for overseas cities too). And finally, flight would reduce corruption in all cities.

[Wyrmo]

What about reducing corruption with city-connection?
A connected city has less corruption than an un-connected
And railroads affects it more than ordinary roads.

Since a road makes the traveltime between cities shorter, communications would work better and corruption would drop
Also, make certain infra-structure-related advances, such as Radio, reduce corruption

[GodSpawn]

I'm going for the lazy option: muddle along until the patch...

[sophist]

Connectedness might be a viable thing too, except I think that comes too early in the game. Usually just about all my cities are connected in the ancient era. On the other hand, it's a cliche that great empires depend heavily on their roads (Rome, Persia, etc.).

6) Garrisons reduce corruption in all governments

[ElitePersian]

Originally posted by sophist
I don't favor just reducing corruption outright; I think for a city half a world away to be almost completely useless is, well, reasonable. But I think there should be in-game means to reduce the corruption in that city. I don't think all of the below should be implemented. They are in order of my preference.

1) Supreme Court/High Court/etc. Small wonder - increases effectiveness of courthouses (I've read that 25% is the current corruption reduction; maybe to 50%?). This could be a small wonder that requires N courthouses before is possible to be built. Of course, since its effects would be useless without a courthouse, that might not be necessary.

2) Multiple Forbidden Palaces. Right now it says that you can only build a Forbidden Palace if you have 8 cities (on a standard map). Maybe make it so that you can build an FP for every 8 cities you have (like the armies/cities limit). Might have to change the cost (in which direction I'm not sure).

3) Increase optimal cities/map over time, probably with each new era. So for a standard map, the optimal number would be 16 in the ancient era, 24 in the medieval era, 32 in the industrial era, and 40 in the modern era. Numbers of course subject to tweaking.

4) Reduce distance penalties over time, again possibly with each new era.

5) Reduce distance penalties with the discovery of new technologies. Namely, for overseas cities, discovery of magnetism and navigation would reduce the distance penalties. For cities on the same continent, steam power would reduce corruption (maybe the same as the above for overseas cities too). And finally, flight would reduce corruption in all cities.

good ideas, i like the small wonder idea.

technologies like magnetism, navigation, radio, and flight, reducing corruption should have been in the game from the start. I dont know if its even possible to use the editor to make these changes.

[LeeBear]

I've been lurking long enough and decide it's time to make my first post. Looking at the postings it looks like there's been some good ideas going around on how to reduce corruption. Here are my suggestions:

1) I think there needs to be a cap on the amount of corruption. Maybe something like a max of 90% in the ancient era, 80% in the medievil, 70% in the industrial, and 60% in modern times. This would still make it hard for early world domination in the opening games, but make it more possible later in the game.

2) Change how distance penalty is calculated. Instead of from the distance between two cities to maybe the distance between the two cities respective cultural borders. For instance if your city is 12 squares away from your capital. And both the capital and the city have a cultral radius of 2, the distance penalty would only be 8 (12-2-2=8). This sorta has the same effect as sophist idea of reducing corruption over time as over time your borders will expand reducing the distance penalty. I think this idea makes the most sense and very simple for the programmers to do.

-LeeBear

[quinalla]

I like the idea of increasing the optimal number of cities in each era because that makes a lot of sense. Corruption should be higher in ancient times than any other later times with the same amount of cities. Good ideas!

-quinalla

[xane]

Seeing as we have "Future Technologies", why not "Future Governments", why do we stop at Democracy as the "highest" form of Government.

How about "Utopian", much reduced corruption but you are completely unable to declare War (although War can be declared against you) and your units attack at a penalty and may never invade without a RoP, and Mobilzation is not available, the intention is to win by Diplomacy or Culture.

Before you can revert to a more warlike stance you'll have to change government first.

[AnotherSteve]

I think the mods you propose are good ones. I especially like the High Court small wonder. (Will the editor allow that one to be added easily?)

Personally, I'd like to see corruption modified by culture. The bigger the culture, the more cohesive the national identity, the larger you should be able to get without having massive corruption problems, right?

[Oerdin]

Originally posted by xane
Seeing as we have "Future Technologies", why not "Future Governments", why do we stop at Democracy as the "highest" form of Government.

How about "Utopian", much reduced corruption but you are completely unable to declare War (although War can be declared against you) and your units attack at a penalty and may never invade without a RoP, and Mobilzation is not available, the intention is to win by Diplomacy or Culture.

Before you can revert to a more warlike stance you'll have to change government first.

Xane,
It sounds like you are playing the wrong game you should take a look at the patched and moded version of CTP2. It has everything you just spoke of...

[sophist]

That's a good idea. The only caveat there is that it might make culture too powerful.

Originally posted by AnotherSteve
Personally, I'd like to see corruption modified by culture. The bigger the culture, the more cohesive the national identity, the larger you should be able to get without having massive corruption problems, right?

[Auren]

Originally posted by Wyrmo
What about reducing corruption with city-connection?
A connected city has less corruption than an un-connected
And railroads affects it more than ordinary roads.

Actually this is already implemented. Cities that are connected to capital do have less corruption. To connect oversees cities you have to have harbor there and your capital connected to another harbor. And if there is sea or ocean squares between two harbors you also need to have advance that allows trade over those squares? (Magnetism/navigation I think, not sure.)

[Kolyana]

23 units of currency/trade generated by a far flung city.

Add courthouse.
Add every other building available in the game.
Add roads and rail all around.
Add a port.
Add an airport.
Make yourself a diplomacy.

Result? 22 corruption. wtf?

Yes, all of those ideas above are wonderful, because clearly a modern age diplomacy with every conceivable building for assistance is a cocktail of corruption. Apparently.

[Sze]

I posted this in another thread too but I'll repeat here. Instead of decresing corruption by age, tie the decrease to specific techs (most of which are placeholders at the moment).

These 5 techs could reduce waste:

Currency <- exchanging money is more efficient than bartering
Banking <- reliability & accountability in finances
Corporation <- corporations are known for improving efficiency to maximize profits
Steel <- a mixture, a more efficient use of natural resources
Recycling <- by definition decreases waste

These 5 techs could reduce corruption by making the empire 'smaller' through communication:

Writing, Printing Press, Radio, Computer, Satellite

[GePap]

I find LeeBears ideas to be the simplest to implement, and thus most likely to make it in. Tying corruption loss to specific techs is not that realistic, since the type of government matters far more. All the cell phones in the world won't make a banana republic less corrupt than Scandinavian countries (hey, my cousin runs the phone company!....)

[Surgeon]

Originally posted by Wyrmo
What about reducing corruption with city-connection?
A connected city has less corruption than an un-connected
And railroads affects it more than ordinary roads.

Since a road makes the traveltime between cities shorter, communications would work better and corruption would drop
Also, make certain infra-structure-related advances, such as Radio, reduce corruption

Perfect! It should be travel time not the number of squares between each city that affect corruption

[codemast01]

How about the ablility to invest an amount of gold per turn into any city's courthouse. The gold makes the courthouse more effective. Seems to me to be the simplest solution.

[sophist]

That's a novel suggestion. I'm not sure how the mechanics of that would work. Please explain further what your idea entails.

Originally posted by codemast01
How about the ablility to invest an amount of gold per turn into any city's courthouse. The gold makes the courthouse more effective. Seems to me to be the simplest solution.

[Easy Rhino]

I like Sze's suggestions about the various advances. You could even stretch it a bit, and say certain ones (like currency) just reduce revenue corruption, and others (recycling) just reduce production corruption (waste).


ER

[LaRusso]

the only corruption aspect that needs a tweak is another continent penalty.

[JayKay]

Originally posted by Auren


Actually this is already implemented. Cities that are connected to capital do have less corruption. To connect oversees cities you have to have harbor there and your capital connected to another harbor. And if there is sea or ocean squares between two harbors you also need to have advance that allows trade over those squares? (Magnetism/navigation I think, not sure.)

Indeed this is true! In order to connect two cities with a harbor, you'll need:

Astronomy - if the two cities are only separated by sea squares
(if Astronomy is far away, and you are desperated, you can build the Great Lighthouse that will make the same effects)

Navigation - if the two cities are separated also by ocean squares

P.S.: There's also the possibility to connect cities by air (Airport), but this is too late in the game.
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[MisterMuppet]

Originally posted by LeeBear
1) I think there needs to be a cap on the amount of corruption. Maybe something like a max of 90% in the ancient era, 80% in the medievil, 70% in the industrial, and 60% in modern times. This would still make it hard for early world domination in the opening games, but make it more possible later in the game.

This is a simple and effective idea, both to understand and implement. I just wonder if it would make the first Civ that jumps into each era too powerful. They would already be the most advanced scientifically, suddenyl they would also get a 10% lifting of the corruption cap.
Best suggesstion so far though

[codemast01]

Originally posted by sophist
That's a novel suggestion. I'm not sure how the mechanics of that would work. Please explain further what your idea entails.

This is my idea :
Any city that has a courthouse should be allowed the investment of money to lower the courruption rate. Because you can set how much money to give a city, you can give more gold to cities with high corruption and less gold to cities with lower corruption.
I am not certain how must courruption should be reduced for every one gold put into a city.I do know it should be connected to population. Maybe it should be something like this : If you put 1 gold for every 1 population than your courthouse will be 100% effective. The less gold the less effective. However the courthouse should never be as effective as the palace or forbidden palace.

For those that are interested in realism:
The realworld equivilant to this is : if a city has a high crimerate, a mayor's solution is to hirer more police officer. (which costs money/gold)

[sophist]

Hmmm... ok. I think that would become a micro-management nightmare.

7) A bunch of people have had the idea to have police stations reduce corruption in addition to courthouses

8) One that I just thought of that has the possibility of being a micromanagement nightmare, but might also work: in addition to entertainers, scientists, and tax collectors, have a fourth option of a judge. Each judge that a city has reduces corruption by some amount (10% rounded up? cumulative, so you have diminishing returns, so that rather than being able to completely eliminate corruption with 10 judges, they just reduce corruption 65%). That makes that pop 15 city 50 tiles away with 1 shield/1 trade viable all of a sudden.

Originally posted by codemast01


This is my idea :
Any city that has a courthouse should be allowed the investment of money to lower the courruption rate. Because you can set how much money to give a city, you can give more gold to cities with high courruption and less gold to cities with lower courruption.
I am not certain how must courruption should be reduced for every one gold put into a city.I do know it should be connected to population. Maybe it should be something like this : If you put 1 gold for every 1 population than your courthouse will be 100% effective. The less gold the less effective. However the courthouse should never be as effective as the palace or forbidden palace.

For those that are interested in realism:
The realworld equivilant to this is : if a city has a high crimerate, a mayor's solution is to hirer more police officer. (which costs money/gold)

[bahoo]

Maybe courthouses ought to do something, more than lower corruption enough to pay for their upkeep.

[Yoleus]

Originally posted by bahoo
Maybe courthouses ought to do something, more than lower corruption enough to pay for their upkeep.

You mean judges and advocates should really lower corruption?
This is completely against any historic accuracy, you know?

[bahoo]

Originally posted by Yoleus


You mean judges and advocates should really lower corruption?
This is completely against any historic accuracy, you know?

Don't tell me that, tell the civ designers that, they're the ones that implemented the courthouse as the primary corruption reduction agent!

I would be satisfied with IRS branches everywhere to audit all the swindling citizens.

[codemast01]

Originally posted by sophist
Hmmm... ok. I think that would become a micro-management nightmare.

I disagree. How is this different then having to choose what to build every few turns. Besides the governor option could be used to maintain the rate so that your city is its most efficient.

7) A bunch of people have had the idea to have police stations reduce corruption in addition to courthouses.

I think this changes little. You will only reduce overall corruption by a percentage. This doesn't solve the distance problem in the modern age. Cities furthur from the captial being more corrupt is not realistic in an age with fast and efficient communication.

8) One that I just thought of that has the possibility of being a micromanagement nightmare, but might also work: in addition to entertainers, scientists, and tax collectors, have a fourth option of a judge. Each judge that a city has reduces corruption by some amount (10% rounded up? cumulative, so you have diminishing returns, so that rather than being able to completely eliminate corruption with 10 judges, they just reduce corruption 65%). That makes that pop 15 city 50 tiles away with 1 shield/1 trade viable all of a sudden.

I am not sure if there would be enough food to support lower population cities that want to reduce corruption.

[siredgar]

I've been using the map editor to give courthouses 50% more revenue, like what I believe marketplaces or banks get. What do you all think of this idea?

[sophist]

I put it on the same level as maintaining happiness through entertainers. Plus the fact that smaller cities cannot support that many judges and still grow quickly is an indicator that rapid growth and controlled, stable growth are different things.

Originally posted by codemast01


I disagree. How is this different then having to choose what to build every few turns. Besides the governor option could be used to maintain the rate so that your city is its most efficient.



I think this changes little. You will only reduce overall corruption by a percentage. This doesn't solve the distance problem in the modern age. Cities furthur from the captial being more corrupt is not realistic in an age with fast and efficient communication.



I am not sure if there would be enough food to support lower population cities that want to reduce corruption.