That does it! I'm outta here...

[Locutus]

I've had more than enough of this, I'm not putting up with this Firaxis/Infogrames crap any longer: "Oh yeah, we're gonna make the best game ever, it will by far outdo any other (civ-)game ever made and we'll do everything we can to support the fan-community in their customization efforts". Meanwhile, they didn't have a demo, no MP, no scenarios, disappointing LE, no public beta, very poor PR (as Yin put it), they're treating non-Americans like second-class citizens, the game itself is not only just a 'conservative sequel' but also - even for such a conservative product - of only mediocre quality AND, more importantly (to me), no scripting- or event-language and no scenario support of any kind. Now, I can (and did) accept all that, there are excuses for such things and they can (partially) be fixed afterwards but now they apparently expect us to ask for written permission before we make any modifications to the game. How many other games are there out there for which this is required? Such policy is absolutely rediculous, there is no excuse for it; supporting the fan-community my @ss!

I can understand how they don't like it if people start translation projects on their own, but the way they're responding to Kai Fiebach's project is outrageous. They announced it will be about 4-6 months before a German translation becomes available and they're actually surprised fans start translating it themselves? Either you release translations (almost) immediately after the original release (other companies can do it, why can't they?) or you accept the fact that fans will act themselves. To think fans will patiently wait six months is naive to say the least, and to start a campaign of lawsuits (yeah, yeah, I know it's technically not a lawsuit but it's not a friendly email/phone-call either) and slandering against your fans is extremely immature and inappropriate.

To me, mod- and scenario-making is by far the most important reason for playing Civ and Firaxis/Infogrames seem to be determined to restrict modmakers as much as they can (no scripting, no scenario support, no standard-format files for graphics and texts, requiring fans to ask permission for customization, generally taking advantage of our goodwill), even though their PR-campaign say differently (no doubt in the hope of selling more copies). For this reason and to sympathize with Kai Fiebach/ColdFever, who - regardless of his good intentions - is being royally f*cked for all of us to see (and I can't help but wonder who will be next), I'm bailing out of Civ3 altogether. I originally planned on buying the game when the price-quality ratio was acceptable (i.e. after a patch or two or after the price drops), but I'm not gonna do so anymore. I'll no longer visit Civ3.com (and thus give up my hard-fought #5 ranking on CivTrivia: good luck to Skanky Burns et al) or the Apolyton (and CivFanatics) Civ3 section & forums, I will no longer update the XPC poll (just posted a last big update but that's it) and I resign as the Apolyton ExtraCivs Pack project leader. Firaxis/Infogrames have lost me to the competition, probably for good. You can say what you want of Activision, but at least they were sincere in their attempts of helping the fans (unfortunately due to internal reorganizations and commercial failure their options were very limited)...

Yes, I realize that this is only a small thing, I'm only one individual and it won't hurt Firaxis or Infogrames one bit but it's a big thing for me. I won't start a campaign of flaming, trolling or trying to convince people to follow my lead (heck, I'd probably get sued if I did), but I wouldn't mind if other people would take a moment to contemplate on whether or not they think the way Firaxis/Infogrames have been acting lately (particularly in the last week or so but also over the last 6 months) requires some form of protest (edit: I just noticed Hoek's open letter: that's one option, my selfimposed 'cease and desist order' is another, more radical, one)...

If anyone needs me, I can be found in the CtP(2) forums (and possibly in the Clash and other Alt Civs projects as well) and I check my email and PM regularly (and I'll keep an eye on this thread in the next few days). Inspite of Firaxis/Infogrames' behaviour, the time I spent on these Civ3 forums in the last few months was fun, interesting and well spent, so I hope to see many of you guys (including the Firaxians, I don't have anything against them personally) elsewhere sometime. Until then, I salute you all: Goodbye, Auf Wiedersehen, Au revoir, Hasta la vista, G^is, Shalom, Do svidanja, Zai jian, Sayonara, Salaam, Ciao, Khairete, Xaire, Vale, Näkemiin, Adjö, Até logo, Czesc, Sawatdi, Hoscakal, Dehna hunu, Fo tuma du, De groete, Tjow...
(I apologize if I left out anyone's language but I only speak so many languages )

edit: typo's 'n stuff...

[lockstep]

Auf Wiedersehen, Locutus. You will be missed, especially in the Civ3-Civilizations forum.

[War4ever]

cya....thats a shame.....

[Wernazuma III]

Good bye Locutus! I support your argumentation, you're absolutely right. ntl I'll try to continue the project and start doing that tomorrow.
If you could do me just a favor and share your knowledge of the Ethiopians with me. Lamentably mine is quite poor and Zara Yacob, by god's grace pristking john of the ethiopians is one of the few things I know...

[Dan Magaha FIRAXIS]

Sorry to hear that. I was really looking forward to seeing what you could do with Civ III scenarios when the tools get up to snuff.

Dan

[Wiglaf]

See you Locutus.

Good points though...

[Gromit]

Way to go dude!!!

[Ka Shima]

Sorry to hear that. I was really looking forward to seeing what you could do with Civ III scenarios when the tools get up to snuff.

So Firaxis, or at least a representative of Firaxis realizes that a substandard part ov Civ3 was released.
Wonder what else will happen...
It is a full moon, though!

[DarkCloud]

Goodbye Locutus- but why not stick around and help the Civ II and III players having troubles- considering you know the Civ-series well- you could do a lot of good!

Good argument, however.

Mr. Firaxis---- I see... so you want us to do the scenario work for you- I hope you noticed the angry scenario-editor requests- if the scenarios are hard to make- some will be made- but not many- the game just becomes more frustrating with bad scenario-editors-


As a side note- Computer Games Magazine and CGW gave Civ III 5 stars??????

[Evil_Eric_4]

This is sad

Its really sad when a game is released unfinished and then the publishers freak out when fans try to finish it for them.

does anyone actually think that the editors gonna be fixed with the patch? yea right its all about nailing everyone twice.Can anyone say MP and editor with a few scenarios x-pac ? bend over while they extract another $30.(if im wrong about this my apologies to firaxis/infogrames).
My 10 day return period is expired so I have great hope for the patch but Im not holding my breath.
Ive stopped playing the game until the patch and gone back to the game I bought just before this OP. Flashpoint.


Seeya Locutus of Borg.

[Gromit]

Die-Bin Laden-die

Is that German for 'The-Bin Laden-The'?

[Evil_Eric_4]

exactly
you watch the Simpsons too huh?

[Gromit]

Heh

[Evil_Eric_4]

IS that a haha or a huh?

Anyway that was sideshow Bob explaining to his parole board why he had DIE-BART-DIE tatooed on his chest.

[LeaninCowboy]

After reading this forum since the beginning, I finally decided to register after reading this thread, just to say this::


Say...thats pretty funny...about the Simpsons and stuff....

Why dont you get yer heads outta yer a$$es and hijack someone elses thread with your dribble.

Let the man leave with some dignity.

[Evil_Eric_4]

whoa -
chill man

just answering the guys question

joined a forum just to rag on someone huh?interesting.

[Yoleus]

Bye.

[Hans2]

Don't let the door hit you in the @ss.

[Martinus]

Locutus,

Thanks for all your hard work, but unfortunately you are right.

Czesc, pal

[protista]

Please reconsider your decision!! I too have been very frustrated with some aspects of Civ3, as well as the translation fiasco, but feel we desperately need individuals of your calibre and compassion within the community to work with all of us in bringing about some of the desired changes in Civ3!

I have a proposal. Please wait until you can peruse the forthcoming patch! If after examining it and determining the merits/demerits of changes and inclusions, you still are adamant about departing, you certainly can!

Somehow I feel we need you here with us!

Firaxis will still get your message. That was a very eloquent post. And we will still have your input and commentary.

[Martinus]

I think what Locutus fears, among others, is for his hard work on the Expansion Pack he will be checked with a cdo and a $ 10,000 bill. And frankly speaking, I don't blame him.

[yin26]

But wait: Jeff Morris tells us that you love bugs. If that's the case, Civ3 should be heaven for you.

Yes, Firaxis, some of your most dedicate fans are jumping ship. Of course, you don't really think much of your fans to begin with, so this is really no big deal, eh?

[Darkknight]

This is bad Didn't Firaxians realise that this would happen? They promised 12 scenarios and a load of other goodies with the LE and only Americans got only half of that. And Dan and several others were raving about the scenario editor and promising us event scripting and we got nothing! And the game you'd swear that none of the designers ever played the bloody thing. I've stopped playing mainly for one reason, corruption. No matter what I do I just cant play past the middle ages. Overall this game is very dissapointing. The only reason civ3 did so well was all the fans left over from civ and civ2.
The same thing isn't going to happen with civ4 or maybe this is the grand finale a big joke on sids part to tide him over into retirement. How many millions has he made so far? How much more will he make from future sales of the 3 civ games?
Right now I would trust Activision more then Firaxis/Infrogfames. I used to look up at Firaxians as gods. I'm 16 I have chosen game design as my hoped for career. My ambition was to someday work in the same company as Sid in 10 years or so but now I see you're just like everyone else. In it for the money F*ck the fans!

[Gromit]

IS that a haha or a huh?

hahaha.

LeaninCowboy i right though, it is Locutus' statement post. And I think he/she? is quite right in making it.

[Wolfar]

Sorry to see you go I really am. This sounds though IMHO like a quiter attatude.


Darkknight,

If you have not made it past the middle ages I STRONGLY suggest you check the Stratagy form. Geting a good start in this game is essential. You are doing somthing WRONG.

I date back to Sid's first games on the Atari 800. This is a GOOD game.

Salute
Wolfar

[LoD]

Really sad to hear that bud . Wish you good luck.

[Sytass]

Being just one of the faceless masses, one who has been a fan of 4x games ever since the original Civ, who played games like MoO 1/2, Civ 1/2, CtP 1/2, AC/AX, SE4 and EU for hours, days, weeks, and months, one of the many silent watchers out there, I feel I have little to add.

I agree with Locutus. It's not the first time a game was overhyped, it was not the first time a game did not include features that had been promised. Names like Outpost, Daikatana, Dark Reign come to mind. I fell for my trust in games thate bear Sid Meier's name, games I had played since my Pirates!-days on my old C64, games like the Civs, Alpha Centauri, Colonization, or Gettysburg. I fell for my trust in Firaxis and their games I enjoyed so much so far.

Some of the shortcomings of the game may only consist in my brain that's not willing to adapt to the new way of the game. However, one smacks strongly that this game was rushed out to make it in time for the x-mas hubbub. I don't blame Firaxis, but their publisher Infogrames, a company whose games I enjoyed since Amiga's legendary North & South, or Full Metal Planete.

Gaming companies are out there to make money. The days of dedicated programmers catering the devoted gamers are not over, however. And even though many great names have become mainstream, obviously now including Sid Meier who lent but his name for the project, there is a new breed of prgrammers - look at Malfador Machination with their Space Empires series, or at Battlefront with Combat Mission, or at Shrapnel Games with games like Horse and Musket. Maybe not the most stylish games (well, except Combat Mission when it's heavily graphic-mod'ed), but games with incredible depth and often unmatched customization.

Civilization 3 was announced as (among many other things) made to mod. Given it was a pretty advanced (technical-wise) game, it was clear that graphic modifications would be for the hardcore modders, not like in Civ 2 for the occasional modder. However, the stance Infogrames takes on the subject of modding is ridiculous to a point that adds insult to injury. Where would games like Half-Life, Unreal Tournament, Space Empires 4 be if it weren't for dedicated modders who love their games? Mods extend the life span of a product. It shows that there are people who like the game so much they sacrifice a lot of time and effort to enhance the experience.

And on those people Infogrames bashes, maybe fearing that their own shortcomings may become too obvious, or that future add ons or expansions may not sell well because of mods covering similar aspects. The customization one can undertake with the editor is handy but to label this as modding is plainly hillarious.

I for one, will return to CTP2 with its Apolyton pack, something that would likely be next to impossible for Civ3, and to Alpha Centauri, a proof that Firaxis is capable of creating great games with fantastic atmosphere. I will await the patch, to see what changes, but the next time I hold a game by the Frixians or Infogrames in my hands, I will think twice. MoO3, I will judge you very carefully!

[Ralf]

Originally posted by yin26
But wait: Jeff Morris tells us that you love bugs.

No, he doesnt tell us that, Yin.

What he trying to say is that the process of having a group of indeviduals producing millions of lines of intermeshed codes & instructions (with lots of sometimes radical feature additions/subtractions a long the way), taking in consideration millions of possible in-game situations (not to mention all these strange geeks who insist on exploiting rather goofy and historically unrealistic gameplay-loopholes again, and again - then complain loudly about how boring this loophole-strategy really is) - then trying to make it work 100% flawlessly from the very start, on thousends and thousends of different, potentially conflicting hardware & software combinations out there, is basically just about 100% impossible.

Give them some slack for crying out load. If they only are as dedicated in following it all up with bug- and gameplay-related patches, and if they also follow it all up with a really nice & substantial Alien Crossfire-style commercial extension-package, including full scenario-building & MP-support + all the rest of it - then everything is going to be OK.

[Bismark29]

Wolfar from bombs-away.net?? If that is you, doesn't this forum remind you of that one when the Mighty 8th first came out? Hahahaha

[jdd2007]

Locutus, I joined the Apolyton community to vote in your xpc poll. i looked at other threads, posted here and there and became a chieftain, then warlord, and now im a prince. along the way, ive had a great time. when civ3 came out, i really enjoyed the game. i still love it, despite the bugs and would reccomend it to anyone who likes strategy games. recently my friend "Lord Cannager" joined here. as i look around the threads i see hundreds of new settlers and old kings and princes that were a level below that when i first clicked on -Apolyton- on the civ3 site. i am really sad that you are leaving this forum, but i am not going to try to persuade you otherwise. i wish you farewell...