2nd Apolyton Civ3 Tournament : 1-15/December/2001 (results are in!)

MarkG · December 1, 2001, 17:17

here it is!

standard size
raging barbarians
archipelago map (with care to have a couple large islands)
climate: normal
temperature: temperate
age: 3billion
level: monarch
huts: removed
civ: english
opponents: 7(americans, germans, iroquois, japanese, french, russians, indians)
theme: the other 8 civs(which werent in the 1st tourn.)

i think it will be a very interesting game!

please use this thread for saved game submissions and comments on the specific tournament game only.
general discussion and suggestions should be done here
http://apolyton.net/forums/showthrea...threadid=36396

player1 · December 2, 2001, 09:26

This will be much more interesting.
All those islands, no huts.

Playing Expansionistic English with no Huts?

Still, since most of those civs are Expansionistic you won't be penalized much.
Anyway, there are nice Golden Age triggering Wonders (Lighthouse, Magellan)

Tilemacho · December 2, 2001, 09:46

I think two weeks isn't long enough to play a good game unless you don't have anything else to do.....

Aeson · December 2, 2001, 10:28

I was really trying for a culture victory, but wasn't going to make it as everyone was building spaceship parts left and right. Other than a battleship that I sent out to start WWI, I didn't take military action at all. Also never set foot on any land outside the starting island. Really wasn't any strategy involved, just end turn, end turn...

Very deserving of the pitiful 1060 points! Hey, I though earliest victory by date meant 7:33am Dec. 2, 2001 :P

Tilemacho · December 2, 2001, 11:00

guh....??? Why did you do that?....just to prove that my above argument was wrong????

MarkG · December 2, 2001, 11:25

after that, i will not be accepting any delayed games

Rasputin · December 2, 2001, 12:01

Quote:

Originally posted by Aeson
I was really trying for a culture victory, but wasn't going to make it as everyone was building spaceship parts left and right. Other than a battleship that I sent out to start WWI, I didn't take military action at all. Also never set foot on any land outside the starting island. Really wasn't any strategy involved, just end turn, end turn...

Very deserving of the pitiful 1060 points! Hey, I though earliest victory by date meant 7:33am Dec. 2, 2001 :P

wow good work. i guess this is the reason i never enter any comps for SP games!!!!!

Peets · December 2, 2001, 16:27

Quote:

Originally posted by Tilemacho
I think two weeks isn't long enough to play a good game unless you don't have anything else to do.....

I second this, and of course with the exams it's goign to be harder :/ I'm still playing the first Tournement, almost finished. Learned a lot but wished the air-superi... bug was fixed.
Also the corruption that is hard made me use another strategy...
I'm looking forward to play the next tournement but my parents won't allow me to play CivIII that much because of the exams.

philler · December 2, 2001, 19:27

a bit disappointed by this 2nd map so far... except for the first two english cities the starting location is rather poor. northwestern part of the island impossible to irrigate...

by the time I discovered cartography, the two nearby islands were already occupied, so I'm gonna have to share them...

high level of corruption makes all my cities except the top 3 almost useless (despite courthouses and democracy).

It seems that I'm gonna have to attack somebody if I want to expand... on the other hand i've never been a big warmonger, and I fear several other nations declare war on me if I attack one of them, as everybody is in peace with everybody.

also, were the heck does the american settler start?? he doesn't seem to be able to build a city!! anyone has seen him?

dainbramaged13 · December 2, 2001, 21:04

rules????

MarkG · December 2, 2001, 21:27

Quote:

Originally posted by dainbramaged13
rules????

same as #1

ChrisShaffer · December 2, 2001, 23:38

There were rules for #1? Where?

Aeson · December 3, 2001, 03:51

Quote:

Originally posted by philler
also, were the heck does the american settler start?? he doesn't seem to be able to build a city!! anyone has seen him?

I think they started stacked with the Indians. If they did, and the Indians built their city first, then they americans would be in the foreign city (check diplomacy, an american worker is for sale from ghandi, or at least was for me). Must be some sort of bug that they can't move out of the Indian city (bug that they can be in it as well).

I just wanted to see if I could pull off an isolationist victory, wasn't trying to prove a point or anything about length of games. I know that more expansionistic games do take a lot longer to play through, and 2 weeks could limit the ability for the more busy among us to finish the games the way they want to play them.

I think the map is great, really would take some doing to score anything near what people were posting on the last tourney. The only real problem I have with this map is that all islands were galley accessable. Other than that, I think its the perfect change of pace from last game, nice settings MarkG!

Skanky Burns · December 3, 2001, 08:29

Well, I grabbed that good spot to the south of my starting position and after a granary in it and capital, was pumping out settlers like there was no tomorrow.

Colonised most of my island, but barbarians held me back for a while. Nasty brutes

Got galleys ASAP and colonised the 2 islands on either side of me, only 3 Iroquois cities slipped onto them as well. Traded for maps, and was puzzling over where those Americans were.

I lost one city to culture (or lack thereof), and gained that city back soon after (through culture again... strange). No other military action until late in the game.

The space race was going on, with everyone joining the party. India felt a bit jealous of my 'underdog' style success, and decided to land an invasion force and start a world war. At this stage, my cities were still defended by warriors, so the invasion force only consisted of swordsmen and archers. A few conscriptions later, all my cities had brand new Mech Inf devisions, and the tanks i was stockpiling rolled over the enemy.

The enemy alliance tore up much of my terrain on the lower island, but didnt manage to land any units (that werent soon underneath my tank treads)

while my main island built the spaceship parts. I held off the attacks long enough, and victory was mine in 1824 AD.

Score 2585

Foxglove · December 3, 2001, 14:57

Well played Shanky.
Youve given me some hope for carrying on with this map as each time i`ve either had my butt kicked (by starting a war when not really ready to do so) or just not expanding quickly enough so my empire ends up cut in half.
I see you didn`t concentrate on any wonders apart from hoover Dam, or did you not bother with trying for any others?
Also, were you tempted to go for a UN win?
The space race victory was close, so kudos for getting it.

Well played again

Foxglove

adaMada · December 3, 2001, 16:42

Markos: Save/Reload in or out?

NOTE: I do not want an arguement on the save reload thing. Personally, I don't plan to use it in my games, but I'd like to know if it's legal anyway. So, markos, what do you think? Also please note that this should be the final word on it, if someone wants to argue over it please start a thread, since I'd like to be able to see who's submitted what without going through hundreds of posts about save/reload and if it's a cheat.

-- adaMada

MarkG · December 3, 2001, 17:16

Quote:

Originally posted by adaMada
Markos: Save/Reload in or out?

save/reload, as well as restarting is obviously discouraged(i wont say "prohibited" since i cant enforce it, it would be ridicullous)

December 3, 2001, 18:51

Quote:

Originally posted by MarkG
save/reload, as well as restarting is obviously discouraged(i wont say "prohibited" since i cant enforce it, it would be ridicullous)

People are just soooo honest, I'll bet no one will save/reload their games.

There has to be a programable way to prevent this in order to have legitimate tounaments, otherwise it's anything goes (as long as you're not caught!)

Bloodaxe · December 4, 2001, 04:22

Just got back from work and thought I'd see what everyone has posted, but not much here - guess everyone is too busy playing.

What HAS happened to to the Americans Markos?
Aeson - Will look into the Indian thing.

Update on my game (as if anyone gives a s***)
Its about 1000AD and I've settled the island to the southwest fully and the one to the north I share with the Russians. Managed to wipe out the Iroquois (no mercy, no vassal states) and have taken over their island as well. I'm on a par with the tech leader (France) and will soon outpace them as I've just changed to democracy and am getting advances in 4 turns. Think I'll go all out for tanks/marines/transports/battleships and then KILL, KILL, KILL, esp. Russians.

MarkG · December 4, 2001, 05:07

Quote:

Originally posted by Bloodaxe
What HAS happened to to the Americans Markos?

not sure, but i might have "destroyed" one of the starting locations while removing the huts

Peets · December 4, 2001, 14:55

Quote:

Originally posted by MarkG
not sure, but i might have "destroyed" one of the starting locations while removing the huts

hehe
I first thought they were killed very fast. I won't be last in score now, hehe. Although I won the previous game (tournament) with space victory, I was surprised I managed that.
Let's hope I can find a good strategy to win again like previous time.

David Floyd · December 5, 2001, 01:34

I'd love to play this one, as it is on settings that I like with a Civ I enjoy playing...but I have finals this and next week so I must set priorities

I'll definitely do one for January, though!

MartyParty1 · December 5, 2001, 03:23

8035 points with Conquest victory in 230 AD.
Used save/load and some strategies discussed on this board plus some Strategy(s) of my own that you guys don't seem to have found yet.

If I would've played it ironman style it would probably have taken an extra 15-20 turns.

cgrecu · December 5, 2001, 07:20

I don't want to accuse anybody of anything, but Conquest victory in 200 AD?
Common, you don't even have time to visit all continents so quickly.
And, since it's on monarch and you don't have horses, I have doubts that you can conquer any civilization in such short time.
Anyway, I can't wait to see the saved game...
Once again, this is not an accusation, I am just amazed...

player1 · December 5, 2001, 08:55

Quote:

Originally posted by cgrecu
I don't want to accuse anybody of anything, but Conquest victory in 200 AD?
Common, you don't even have time to visit all continents so quickly.
And, since it's on monarch and you don't have horses, I have doubts that you can conquer any civilization in such short time.
Anyway, I can't wait to see the saved game...
Once again, this is not an accusation, I am just amazed...

Such type of game are usually extensive cheating wich load/save.

In last tornament one guy got 10000 points conquest vitory.
If you look that repaly you'll see that he get second city in 3800.
(probably becuse he got settler in nearby hut, by extensive load/saves)

Also one warror attack beats spearmen by such kind of cheating.
2 warriors beat 2 cities.
5 beat 5 cities...

I know this because I tried it in regualar game.
It works.

But, it breaks tournaments.

Anyway, random seed is changing if you now how to trigger it.

Hint: Diplomay session CHAGES random seed.

P.S.
This doesn't mean that this guy had cheated.
Practicly, it's not even a cheat because it can't be monitored.
But, I am suspicious.

philler · December 5, 2001, 09:08

if some people want to cheat, so be it, there's not much we can do about it anyway.

the interesting thing is to be able to discuss a given map and compare our respective strategies, *not* to have the best score...

personally, I restarted the game last night. I realized that I would be much better off by changing my usual science research scheme and going directly for map making...

if this is cheating by your rules, then fine by me, do no include me in the contest

I just didn't feel like carrying on with the other game, where I was pretty much stuck on my island except for a couple of cities. I was always 2 or 3 techs behind the others, and the game wasn't fun at all.

So, I don't know if I'm going to end up with the best score, and I probably won't, but what I know for sure is that I'm having fun taking part in this tournament.

I hope you all remember that. It's about having fun, not proving to the whole world how good you are at moving units around...

and if you cheat to achieve high scores, and are actually proud of you, well, go see a shrink.

you need it.

--
edited: corrected a few typos.

player1 · December 5, 2001, 09:24

In fact that kind of cheating is not fun at all.
All those load/saves to make one move perfect.

It's just not fun.

I know from expoirience.

In fact games wich some kind of disasters are much more enjoable & challenging.

Like my first Civ3 game (regent), when barbarian horsemens killed 2 mine settlers when I had only 5 cities.
I was a fun game indeed.

cgrecu · December 5, 2001, 09:25

Quote:

Originally posted by player1

Also one warror attack beats spearmen by such kind of cheating.
2 warriors beat 2 cities.
5 beat 5 cities...

I'm not so sure about this, because the chances to beat with one warrior a spearman are (on monarch level) about 1 in 20 I think.
And this means that you must wait a few turns, because save/load does not alter the dice as you know.
Also, the computer defends usually with two spearmans, this makes the chances even smaller.
You have a little more chance with the archers, but not by much.
And think about the number of galleys you need...
And , as far as I played(not much, it's true) the only way to reach the other 4 civs (unless the Lighthouse is yours...) is to travel east , along the coast of Iroq., where there are a lot of pirates...

Quote:

Originally posted by player1
Hint: Diplomay session CHAGES random seed.
But, I am suspicious.

If this is true, then this is a cheat, just like the 1.000.000 gold bug.(unless it wasn't intended this way by the developers, which I don't think so).

I stick to my opinion, that only by save/load it is not possible to obtain this time.
One thing I have to say is that Civ3 is looking more and more like a Civ1 game, the best way to win is to build as much cities as possible(in as little space as possible) and rush as much Horseman as possible...
I don't like this at all.

volcanohead · December 5, 2001, 11:55

Save/reloading does work to change combat results as the random seed is updated each turn. It's easy, and it's very effective in the early game when there are few defending units.

But it's a sad and boring way of playing.

I'm still playing this map, and it's much better than the previous one, simply because I'm having to change my strategy completely. I went quickly for mapmaking to colonise the nearby islands, but I was still too slow to achieve dominance on the sourthern island... The iroquis got there first. I tried to attack, but failed, and at that point could have reloaded again and again to beat them off... but I figured, hell, why am I playing this thing? Just for the score or to see what I can do with default rules? So I gave up on the attack and aimed to get a city on as many luxury spots as I could, which went pretty well.

One point: the Germans, damn them, have the most beneficial starting spot I've ever seen. When I saw that I got really pissed off, and piad a ton of money to everyone else to declare war on them, which has really slowed down their progress, so now they are lagging behind. Very nice...

Anyway, good luck as usual, and FIGHT THE TEMPTATION TO RELOAD!

V

cgrecu · December 5, 2001, 12:52

Quote:

Originally posted by volcanohead
Save/reloading does work to change combat results as the random seed is updated each turn. It's easy, and it's very effective in the early game when there are few defending units.

Yes, but if you are i clear disadvantage(warrrior vs Monarch spearman) then it will take you several turns to beat the spearman.And several turns(maybe even 5-10 turns).
And it does not matter how many warriors you have because if you don' win with the first then the spearman might go elite and then you'll have some big problems.
I think it is very time consuming to beat the world only with warriors, so even on a pangeea it isn't possible to win too quickly.
And I agree with volcano, the best victory is when you start in the worst possible location and inspite of the bad luck and all you manage to squeeze out a victory...without cheating of course...