Stop the America-bashing! - Page 15

Arrian · February 15, 2002, 12:47

Enjoy the party Serb. I, too, will be MIA (missing in action) for the weekend, as I have a bunch of friends coming to visit. It will take me a while to recover, I'm sure.

-Arrian

Serb · February 16, 2002, 17:06

Arrian, how are you feeling today? Are you still “missing in action”?

As for me, I think KIA (killed in action) is the best abbreviating to describe my condition after the yesterday’s party.
I have Chernobyl’s explosion in my head when I wake up at this morning. Cognac, vodka and beer are not the best combination if you ask me.

Btw, today I watch the USA vs. Finland hockey’s match, very impressive.

Arrian · February 18, 2002, 15:00

Serb,

Cognac, Vodka and Beer? That does sound like a nasty combination. I'd bet it was the Cognac that caused the trouble. Vodka and Beer are good guys, I know them well, but I never did trust that Cognac dude.

I'm fine, actually. I stuck to Whiskey and Beer for the most part, with a little bit of Rum on Saturday night. I'm feeling a little stupid today, and I'm really glad I took the morning off from work. Luckily for my liver, the guys who came to visit this past weekend don't get together all that often.

-Arrian

SieGermans · February 20, 2002, 06:26

quote:

"I don't know, but when I think of America, distinctive culture does not come to mind"

you must not get out very much or read the news. Coca-Cola, MTV, and Hollywood are ALL examples of distinctive American Culture. they are overbearing in the world because most youths like the globalization and liberalism of American Culture as opposed to restricting heritage. this has lead to conflict, and is why so many muslims don;t like us. America is also a major scientific contributor to the world. to stay on subject, the camera and the motion picture were both invented by Americans.

Dry · February 20, 2002, 07:09

Quote:

Originally posted by SieGermans
quote:
...to stay on subject, the camera ... .

Do you mean Nicephor Niepce - inventor of camera obscura (1822) - was American?

Quote:

Originally posted by SieGermans
quote:
... and the motion picture were both invented by Americans.

Yes ... and no. Edison invented the motion picture camera, but the french Lumiere brothers, invented the motion picture projector.

Timeline of photography here:
http://www.eastman.org/5_timeline/5_index.html

SieGermans · February 20, 2002, 11:54

Dry,
the motion picture camera and studio by which he can play the movies were both made by Edison, Lumiere merely refined the video camera. Edison also invented the battery to power this device.

the camera obscura was not a real camera. film wasn't even a though then. it was merely a projector that allowed an artist to draw clearly. I am refering to the Civil War photography work done by Walt Whitman and the modern shutter cameras invented by Eastmann.

Dauphin · February 20, 2002, 15:33

It never ceases to amaze me that people ignore the inventions/scientific progress of other nations scientists and believe their countrymen to have done the definitive work.

SieGermans · February 21, 2002, 05:06

it never ceases to amaze me how so many obnoxious people fail to regard anything that comes out of America.

SieGermans · February 21, 2002, 05:12

if you read my other post which I know you did, you'd know that I give other nations the credit they deserve with the inventions they came up with. now why don't you start accepting the fact that a huge amount of inventions and ideas have come out of America. or are you going to tell me that the phonograph was a British idea and the airplane was invented by a Frenchman?

Dauphin · February 21, 2002, 14:09

Why do you assume I was talking about you? Don't be paranoid.

Quote:

it never ceases to amaze me how so many obnoxious people fail to regard anything that comes out of America

I agree.

Willem · February 21, 2002, 14:45

Quote:

Originally posted by Sagacious Dolphin
Why do you assume I was talking about you? Don't be paranoid.

Well if you don't use quotes, it can be a little hard to tell sometimes.

Ironikinit · February 21, 2002, 16:09

I've seen some howlers on these boards, but Walt Whitman the Civil War photographer and the Lumiere bros.' video camera may just top them all.

In case anyone was curious, Whitman was a nurse during the ACW. The Lumiere brothers used chemical means, not magnetic tape... I would suppose that the video camera came along with, oh I dunno, maybe TELEVISION.

Anyway, yanks have plenty of inventions and scientific developments and the Nobels to show for it. Plus the culture doesn't put me to sleep. The rest of the world, IMVHO, often SCREWS UP American cultural developments, such as comic books, rock and roll, or pulp fiction by combining them with high art or middlebrow pretense... and then we yanks make the collosal mistake of imitating the imitation.

SEE ALSO: The Monkees.

I really am looking forward to seeing some pasty northern European kids figure out how to sell hip hop back to America, though.

Arrian · February 21, 2002, 17:35

Quote:

Originally posted by Ironikinit

I really am looking forward to seeing some pasty northern European kids figure out how to sell hip hop back to America, though.

I think one of the reasons that American culture has a terrible reputation is that all people outside the USA see is Baywatch, Survivor, and assorted other garbage. True, many Americans spend their time watching that trash, but it's not all there is to know about America. Just like watching Absolutely Fabulous (which is funny as hell, don't get me wrong) isn't going to give you a comprehensive understanding of British culture.

-Arrian

Dauphin · February 21, 2002, 17:57

Quote:

Originally posted by Willem

Well if you don't use quotes, it can be a little hard to tell sometimes.

It was a general commentary on the whole issue of arguing over who invented what, not directed to or precipated by a single persons comment.

Dauphin · February 21, 2002, 18:03

Quote:

Originally posted by Arrian

Just like watching Absolutely Fabulous (which is funny as hell, don't get me wrong)

That programme is crap IMHO.

Why do the crap things of Britain get exported so easily. Look at Benny Hill, Teletubbies, Spice Girls etc All considered tripe in the UK but big hits abroad.

Arrian · February 21, 2002, 18:26

S.D. - Dunno, but it mirrors what happens with American stuff. It's the crap that everyone else gets to see, and it seems that anything of real value never goes anywhere.

On Ab Fab, I suppose you look at it the way I look at most American TV programs - they embarass the hell out of me (for a number of reasons, including what people from other countries must think while watching it). Watching shows like Survivor, and for that matter, just about any sitcom, is pure torture.

Ab Fab, to me, is a "stupid funny" show without pretense. If it were American, though, I might not enjoy it. I don't consider it the height of British comedy, though, so don't worry.

-Arrian

Dauphin · February 21, 2002, 19:11

Its my theory that the best is kept secret for home consumption. Crap stuff is let out so that a) home folk don't have to suffer, and b) foreign folk get "dumbed down".

BTW I just noticed your location, whats CT like these days? I used to live in Riverside between Greenwich & Stamford, CT back in the 80s.

SieGermans · February 22, 2002, 06:48

Sagacious, America exports the same tripe, like the movie Titanic, Beenie Babies, reality TV, and pop music. it's the shittier, stereotype of American culture. Sag, the US does get some great things from the UK, such as punk rock

personally, I think our role in Environmentalism has been the strongest in the world, one of the culturally benefits we give to the world.

Ironikinit · February 22, 2002, 07:10

Punk originated in the states. It was popularized in the UK.

SEE ALSO: The Ramones.

"Oh, the other countries only see our bad stuff. We keep all the good stuff for ourselves." Yeah, right. If Baywatch, the Spice Girls, and um... trying to think of another international embarassment but from another country... oh yeah, the Australian show "Neighbours", weren't at least marginally popular at home they wouldn't've been exported. There are other American shows just as bad as Baywatch, that's certain.

SieGermans · February 22, 2002, 09:39

I am familiar with the Ramones. it was a parallel development, but UK punk was the "popular" punk

Arrian · February 22, 2002, 12:13

Sag,

Connecticut is as it always has been, thanks for asking. It's that nice little place in between Boston and New York. I grew up in Easton, which is also in Fairfield county, albeit on the opposite end from Riverside. The World is apparently a small place after all.

I agree with Ironikinit, that shows have to be popular in their place of origin to be exported. Such is the case with "reality TV" like Survivor. Survivor is hugely popular in the U.S. (if it wasn't, there wouldn't be all those imitation shows now). This fact alone has done a lot of damage to my already low regard for my fellow citizen's taste. I, with very little or no provocation, could go off on a rant about how much I hate that show and everything it stands for, but I will refrain from doing so here, so as to spare you all.

-Arrian

p.s. "Evil will always triumph over Good, because Good is dumb." - Dark Helmet, Spaceballs.

molly bloom · February 22, 2002, 21:39

Quote:

Originally posted by SieGermans
I am familiar with the Ramones. it was a parallel development, but UK punk was the "popular" punk

As an early British punk, I can truthfully say that it originated in New York, was noticed and exported by Malcolm MacLaren, when he returned to Britain after being involved with the New York Dolls. Punk is of course, a common American slang term, which should in itself tip anyone of about the roots of the musical genre- punk as used in British English was last popular in the 17th/18th centuries and was used as an alternate term for a loose woman or roaring girl.

There is a very good history of the Punk movements by Jon Savage, which would be of interest to anyone who wanted to see how music from the U.S. became remodelled as British art school/pub rock music.

Patti Smith, Talking Heads, the Ramones, all pre-dated Brit punk. As of course did what some might call the onlie begetters, Lou Reed, the Velvet Underground and Iggy Pop and the Stooges.

siredgar · February 24, 2002, 14:14

Right, but you could also add David Bowie in the mix, too. Although he was more glam-rock.

Spiffor · February 24, 2002, 22:09

I'm quite late, but to get back to the original point : the US have a specific culture, and their influence (their half-worldwide leadership for 80 years) make them perfectly suitable for Civ. Just as much as the Spanish, the Ottomans, the Mongols or the Arabs. I think the US has been favored because Firaxians are American, and because it is a much bigger market than Mongolia

(Doh, as a French, saying that the US has a culture ! How low can I get ?

)

Jaguar · February 25, 2002, 05:49

Quote:

Originally posted by Ribannah
(Peugot company, 1889).

But has anyone heard of them?

The point is that the Model T was the first car people could buy for a reasonable price.

molly bloom · February 25, 2002, 06:28

Quote:

Originally posted by FireDragon

But has anyone heard of them?

The point is that the Model T was the first car people could buy for a reasonable price.

You mean, outside of America? Yes, plenty of people have heard of Peugeot, and Peugeot-Citroen.

The point is, as opposed to several posters opinion, the automobile began in Europe. The production line and cheap mass produced automobiles may have been popularized by Ford- but Europe made them first.

Ironikinit · February 25, 2002, 07:08

I'd say that Bowie was a bigger influence on new wave than punk.

People always want to credit the smart-seeming influences. IMO, garage bands like ? and the Mysterians were as big an influence as anything on the development of punk rock. The Clash even did a song about being a garage band.

SieGermans · February 25, 2002, 11:46

where would Billy Idol fall

Rosacrux · February 25, 2002, 12:10

Quote:

Originally posted by SieGermans
where would Billy Idol fall

...in the craphole?

And... peeps, punk is British. Influences from USA? Certainly. Nothing in music is parthenogenesis. But the rage was local. Punk has developed (for Malcolm's satisfaction) to a revolutionary movement and this had nothing to do with the intellectually interesting but albeit conventional as apple pie, american resembling genre at the time.

MrFun · February 25, 2002, 14:57

I usually do not participate in this forum--I'm usually in the Off-Topic forum.

But I was upset by some of the posts in here. There are Americans who, out of ignorance, are claiming that greasy, fast-food is a cultural achievement.

I do not see any cultural achievement in greasy, fast-food. I don't give damn how many McDonald's restaurants there are in all the countries of the world. It's greasy, fatty, fast-food--that is all it is, no matter how popular or widespread it is.