Stop the America-bashing!

[Arrian]

Again pathetic!

Thanks, pal, I appreciate that. I had forgotten how effective personal attacks are in advancing an argument.

Oppression - That which oppresses; a hardship or injustice; cruelty; severity; tyranny

Your stance seems to be that the US oppresses people in a sneaky, underhanded way so that most people don't notice it. A major issue here appears to be the lying (or, to choose a better word, propoganda). I agree with you there. I think our government causes a lot of the resentment by assuming the moral high ground and thundering down at the rest of the world about right and wrong, and then proceeding to act as all nations do - amorally, in our best interests. That smacks of hypocrisy, and pisses people off, myself included. So, with regard to that, point taken.

However, while the US government acts in what our leaders think is our (or their) own best interest, we are not responsible for all of the injustice in the world. Some of it, yes. All, or even most of it, no. I bet you find it mighty convenient to blame everything on the big bad USA. No need to blame anyone else then. Nice and neat.

Misleading someone to do what they would normally not do on thier own through controlled information, half truths and information not given at all. This is making the american public consent and feel that what the US government is doing is okay. This is different from communism in only that it is more sneakier. It gives you teh falise that you are not being lied to and that you know what is going on.

No different from Communism (by which I assume you mean the USSR, not the economic system of communism?) except for being sneakier? Come on, even you must admit that's an exaggeration. While our system of government is far from perfect, there are at least methods by which the people can hold their leaders accountable for misdeeds. It doesn't often happen, and the act must be particularly aggregious (or the politician really dumb), but it does happen. We have rights guaranteed by the Constitution and Bill of Rights that those living under communism simple did not/do not have. People aren't snatched up and sent to Gulags for criticising the government.

But I have a feeling your point was about propoganda, so I'll address that. Yeah, the government isn't always telling the whole truth and nothing but the truth. However, one of the benifits of democracy is that the government keeps on lying, it eventually gets caught, tarred and feathered. You think the US media would hesitate to crucify Bush if any truely scandalous connection to Enron was proven? Hell, no! They would be all over him like a pack of ravening wolves, and rightly so.

I agree the US public isn't as aware as it should be. But your notion that the government has this whole conspiracy, which the media is involved in, to fool us into allowing them to do dark and terrible things is really a stretch. The fact is that most people, no matter where they are, are primarily concerned with that which impacts their daily lives. People like us, who care enough about international affairs to spend hours debating them, are fairly rare.

-Arrian

[SpencerH]

Arrian

Did you ever see Geraldo Riveras interview with Charles Manson? In case you havent, Geraldo conducts the 4 hour interview as if Manson is sane. Geraldo appears to believe that Manson is speaking in metaphors and conducts the interview as if it all makes sense. In fact, Manson is a schizophrenic who is mostly mouthing gibberish.

[CRAZY]

I bet you find it mighty convenient to blame everything on the big bad USA. No need to blame anyone else then. Nice and neat.

Definitly not!! By no means do I blame everything on the USA. The followers are just as bad. This includes Canada and Britian especially! It just so happens this thread is about america! I might also add altho Canada is involved to a great extent it is not in the same manner as the US. We do however give credabliity to the US actions by sending token forces in any operation the US operates in. this some how gives the appearance of a international strike instead of just a unilateral move by the US. Britain shoulders much of this same responsibilty.

But what the world see's and resents is the initators which in most all cases is the US. As well when the US see's its interests shift it then shows no respect to those who even lended credablity to thier actions in the first place! Canada I am speaking of inparticular. Those like you say who follow this sort of stuff realize this but those who don't only hear the big juicy stuff and then show no respect to those they should.

I would just like to mention altho most of this stuff is applicable to the US government there are instances in which the aggorance and ignorance of the US public plays on your world wide bad reputation! You guys bomb and kill our soliders and then the same night boo our national anthem.

Many many many canadians took offence to this. It didn't only happen once either. The booing of our anthem happend a few times. This insensitivity and arrogence is unheard of! Last night at the Toronto Ny islander game Cdns cheered the US anthem. Can you see the difference? It happened in Ny and Detroit! This is not the representation of only a few. This obvioulsy dosn't help your rep over here! For most people in the US this has barly even registared on thier radar!

But your notion that the government has this whole conspiracy, which the media is involved in, to fool us into allowing them to do dark and terrible things is really a stretch

I am not saying its a co-consipacy. During recent wars how have the government controlled the media? THe media just reports on the information presented to them. Often the info presented to them is not true or whole! After the inital impression all else is almost dismissed. SO the government does control what people hear. Of course this is not 100% of the time but for goings on behind the scences information its a definite majority.

As for the assertion that all the terrorists that have terrorized the US come from Canada give your head a shake! Most have come from right inside the US itself. I wouldn't blame your lax gun control laws or anything like that. Or the fact of the availablility of small arms training within your own country for anything! Trying to pass the buck on Canada for your own foreign policy problems is a lame thing to do. The US government floated this idea to take some of the pressure off of its own mistakes.

Most people who get all thier info from mainstream media bit on it too! Now anyone who disputes this fact will just be dismissed as not knowing what they are talking about! 60 minutes! please. The fast food nation! I love it when people regergatate headlines fed to them by the mainstream media! Its entertaining. Some here like to do this. Many people lack the ability of critical thinking. Of course some and not all!

Anyone here like fishing? Nothing like it!! Wiggle the bait and someone will be smart enough to bite it! LMAO

[CRAZY]

Hey Dubya or should I say Spence the rhetoric is amazing and entertaining but please ifyou have nothing intelligent to say try not wasting our time!

I have shown you facts and you choose not to answer. If you choose to compare me to Charles Manson that is okay. your friend Arrian raises some wise points.. you on the other hand remind me of one of those fish I was talking about earlier.

Wiggle, wiggle, bite bite!!

[Arrian]

Crazy,

Booing someone's national anthem, particularly that of an ally, is disgraceful. The timing also couldn't have been worse. Unfortunately, a bunch of morons made the rest of us look like "ugly Americans."

-Arrian

[Dauphin]

Does anyone know what happened to the 500 replies limit?

[Arrian]

Heh, the mods probably just decided to let this one run, seeing as another would just pop up immediately if this was closed... although it would at least move to the proper forum (off topic).

-Arrian

[Dauphin]

The sister thread is also over 500. making around 1300 posts across the two. its the only thing keeping this forum alive at the moment!!

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by Sagacious Dolphin


Usually that practice is left to the English. Self-denigration is our number one past-time.

Glad to learn it. However, that's too bad that we ,Frenchmen, don't know what you're saying about yourselves. We'd have even more material to mock you

[Whoha]

Lots of stuff here. First off, the military spending, we spend more on welfare programs. Neat little site though crazy, and honestly, whats bad about military spending, without it we would not have the precision weapons or the intellegence capabilities that negate the need for general bombardment targeting everything.

Capitalism isn't outdated, yea everyone lost money in the stockmarket, they invested at their discretion however. And the economy will recover, the nasdaq is sitting around the 1961 number, think economists refer to it as one of fibonacci's numbers, not too sure about that. Of course it is depressed from that value, but there have been other reasons for that. However when the labor party in the UK nationalized most if not all of their industries, we saw the results of that. Namely Thatcher having to fix it. We can also point to communism which is the logical extension of socialism. I agree with a famous scottish economist that government should only serve a few basic needs, industries which can not be run in the private sector more efficiently,the judicary,the common defense, and a currency.

Yes we support dictators, given the alternative(we like to think that any communist that gets in charge will **** up as badly or worse then pol pot,or stalin,or mao), life is much better for everyone. Theres another reason as well, think about if we started interfering in another country(as you are asking us not to with regards to the middle eastern dictatorships...) we get called on for being imperialistic.

[Coracle]

Originally posted by Spiffor

Glad to learn it. However, that's too bad that we ,Frenchmen, don't know what you're saying about yourselves. We'd have even more material to mock you

At least we have ONE thing in common: crazy Open Door mass immigration is flooding both our countries with Third World riff raff and terrorists.

[Whoha]

think this thread has more then enough flamebait Coracle, just sit back, grab some popcorn, and watch the fireworks everyone

[siredgar]

Well, if you hate us so much why don't you come and attack us? Just like the terrorists did. Maybe we should just keel over and die in some rotten hole. Would that make you happy? Next time Hitler invades, don't call us we'll call you.

[Whoha]

who called it?

[danimal]

Without the USA..civilization would have died out in 1945...cowardly drunken countries like France and England would never have protected itself from the Hitler and Japanese on-slaught.

You can bash the USA...because you are jealous. But remember the USA is the only country that prevents the world from being overrun by the chinese.

[danimal]

Originally posted by Spiffor

Glad to learn it. However, that's too bad that we ,Frenchmen, don't know what you're saying about yourselves. We'd have even more material to mock you

The french are ignorant cowardly morons...I will never understand why we just didn't give them to Hitler. We save them...and they don't appreciate it. Well froggie ..you can eat merde and die for all I care.

Next time you need us to save you from some war you are losing...forget it.

[siredgar]

Originally posted by danimal
Without the USA..civilization would have died out in 1945...cowardly drunken countries like France and England would never have protected itself from the Hitler and Japanese on-slaught.

You can bash the USA...because you are jealous. But remember the USA is the only country that prevents the world from being overrun by the chinese.

Hold on because this sounds a bit "yellow peril"-like to me. The Chinese, in my opinion, have generally played a stabilizing role in Asia throughout history and they really have not had ambitions outside of the region. When they sailed to India and Africa, for example, they mostly traded with the people and didn't really try to colonize or enslave them (despite being far more advanced).

Even today, if they were the most powerful nation in the world, I don't think they'd try to dominate world affairs or be everywhere at everytime. I wouldn't describe them as "peaceful" in nature, but more like "regional" in their focus. Anyhow, the Chinese have a long way to go before even threatening to challenge U.S. supremacy.

[Arrian]

Hmm, anyone wanna guess whose DL "danimal" is?

Piss poor trolling, by the way. Too obvious. But of course sublety requires intelligence.

-Arrian

[siredgar]

Originally posted by danimal


The french are ignorant cowardly morons...I will never understand why we just didn't give them to Hitler. We save them...and they don't appreciate it. Well froggie ..you can eat merde and die for all I care.

Next time you need us to save you from some war you are losing...forget it.

I feel this way more about the Kuwaitis than the French. Most other Arabs don't like the Kuwaitis either. The way they treat foreigners working in their country is appalling. I say next time Iraq invades, let them have it. This will never happen, of course, because the Bush Jr. is just itching to attack Iraq and try to oust the Saddam.

Most French people actually like Americans, at least more than the British do. Anyhow, I'd rather have French culture still around than German culture dominating Europe.

[Dauphin]

Originally posted by Spiffor

Glad to learn it. However, that's too bad that we ,Frenchmen, don't know what you're saying about yourselves. We'd have even more material to mock you

I think as a nation we find the French mocking the British amusing more than insulting. After all, you're French - No matter how useless we are, we aren't as impotent, whingie moanie and irrelevant as you lot.

Do the French still use the slang "The Roast Beefs" as mockery of the British. I don't find it insulting, I find it humourous. Then of course, do you think being called Froggie is insulting? .

[lorddread]

In Europe alone, officials estimate that more than 200,000 women and girls — one-quarter of all women trafficked globally — are smuggled out of Central and Eastern Europe and the former Soviet republics each year, the bulk of whom end up working as enslaved prostitutes. Almost half are transported to Western Europe to endure years of forced prostitution and brutal beatings.
Of the hundreds of women and girls are smuggled into Europe every day and forced onto the streets, most end up in cities like Hamburg, Paris, London and Amsterdam.

Amsterdam, a city synonymous with hedonism, is perhaps best known for its legalized sex industry, in which prostitutes pay taxes and undergo regular health exams. The city’s Red Light District is a virtual Disneyland of sex — with only European Union passport holders allowed to ply the trade. But only a few miles’ drive from the city center, traditional Dutch tolerance is helping fuel the trafficking problem. In Theemsweg, a fenced-in, football field-sized parking lot built by the government for unregulated sex workers, girls sit in bus shelters — also courtesy of the government — waiting for clients. There are no EU citizens here — and the prostitutes’ countries of origin are strikingly familiar: Ukraine, Moldova, Belarus, Romania, Bulgaria, Czech Republic. On weekends, men looking for cheap sex wait in cars that back up for a mile. Sexual encounters, which take place right in the cars, cost $20.

[Whoha]

just when you thought it was dying down!

[Dauphin]

On weekends, men looking for cheap sex wait in cars that back up for a mile

Now that I gotta see to believe.

[siredgar]

And your point is???

Sounds like some people are making a living and some people are having fun to me.

[Whoha]

hes saying that these are slave girls though siredgar. I dont know, he didnt provide any links, and its ot, considering no one brought up slavery in the past couple of posts. Im kinda suprised danimal chose ww2 instead of ww1, and im even more suprised a russian guy didnt post in response to the ww2 remark. Anyway im doing my part to keep this thread up and kicking.

[MarkG]

i think this thread has lasted waaaay more than what it should....