Stop the America-bashing! - Page 3

ntyatecafe · December 10, 2001, 14:59

Quote:

Originally posted by Thrawn05
I find it funny how we continue to turn to the Egyptians when comparing other civs. It should be pointed out that Egypt AS A CULTURE OF ITS OWN ended when the Roman Empire fell, and the Muslim raiders took control of it.

I believe that everyone is using Egypt as the comparison point, because it is believed to be the earliest civilization.

siredgar · December 10, 2001, 15:48

Quote:

Originally posted by Thrawn05
I find it funny how we continue to turn to the Egyptians when comparing other civs. It should be pointed out that Egypt AS A CULTURE OF ITS OWN ended when the Roman Empire fell, and the Muslim raiders took control of it.

Good point! Now, how many years is that? Hehe.

siredgar · December 10, 2001, 15:52

Ribbanah, you always seem to dig up these great pre-inventions. However, I have to question some of them as the real precursors to widely recognized "firsts".

Dauphin · December 10, 2001, 15:53

Quote:

"...and we stood on the shoulders of giants to thus achieve..."

Paraphrased, that is what Newton said.

It was an acceptance of the work acheived by his predecessors, however it was also a personal swipe at a fellow gifted "scientist" who was particularly short. Can't remember who though, Leibnitz?

molly bloom · December 10, 2001, 19:30

Quote:

Originally posted by Big Crunch

Quote:

"...and we stood on the shoulders of giants to thus achieve..."

Paraphrased, that is what Newton said.

It was an acceptance of the work acheived by his predecessors, however it was also a personal swipe at a fellow gifted "scientist" who was particularly short. Can't remember who though, Leibnitz?

Try Robert Hooke:

www.mathpages.com/rr/s8-02/8-02.htm

aaglo · December 12, 2001, 09:30

Quote:

Originally posted by Beckdawg
... Another thing you guys are leaving out is the fact that the US is where democracy became a popular government...

Hehee, should we thank US or bash them more for this

Mercury · December 12, 2001, 11:43

To my mind americans isn't a civilization. BECAUSE:
At first it was a couple of colonies and later they became independent and became as U.S.A. 300 as waas said for history is like 3 hours to us. So if a day has 24 hours, what are the 3?
Also as nation they formed later. And what nation???
In colonies was englishmen, and another nationalities. So?
The true so called "americans" are indians such as Sioux.
Why now America is so powerful. Because a lot of people such as former englishmen, french,chinese and others accumulated their minds to create such gegemony. But american culture is transformed from a group of another cultures, and became "american".
Banish!!!

ntyatecafe · December 12, 2001, 13:17

Quote:

Originally posted by Mercury
To my mind americans isn't a civilization. BECAUSE:
At first it was a couple of colonies and later they became independent and became as U.S.A. 300 as waas said for history is like 3 hours to us. So if a day has 24 hours, what are the 3?
Also as nation they formed later. And what nation???
In colonies was englishmen, and another nationalities. So?
The true so called "americans" are indians such as Sioux.
Why now America is so powerful. Because a lot of people such as former englishmen, french,chinese and others accumulated their minds to create such gegemony. But american culture is transformed from a group of another cultures, and became "american".
Banish!!!

Let me re-iterate a point I made earlier. If you want the game to go accuratly by history, every civilization in the game would have consequences...even Russia (assuming that it represents the entire [former] USSR would be reduced to a fraction of its power due to the coup and the formation of the CIS. I think we've already well established that a game that went accurately by history wouldn't be much fun.

One more point I need to make: What is the purpose to these discussions? Are we really that arrogant? I mean, if we decide that America shouldn't be in the game, what's going to happen? Do any of you really expect FireAxis to waste an obsurd amount of money by recalling the game, spending a lot of time removing America from it, then re-releasing it? Not to mention compensating those who had already bought the game! Is this likely? No. Is this feasible? No. Is this an assinine asumption? YES!

Bottom line: If you don't want America in the game, get your thumb out of you @$$, and edit it out. Quit whining about it, and quit wasting our time! This is pretty much a dead topic, so I'd suggest everyone drop it, and stop yapping at your betters!

dexters · December 12, 2001, 15:11

dexters · December 12, 2001, 15:13

It's been said before, but A TRUE game of Civilization will start with a band of Nomads with no particular nationality or culture and you would have full control in steering it into whatever you like.

As for the Americans being a Civilization, the Chinese would argue most of Europe does not deserve to be in the game as for most of China's 4000 long years of history, Europe was a collection of barbarian huts.

I'm sure the Egyptians would say the same thing.

To our Euro friends, don't be so smug about your historical age, as an old Chinese proverb goes, there will always be a mountain higher than the last, and there are plenty of Civilizations out there, some extinct , some existing in different configurations and some still intact (China) that predates your country by millenias more. And if we take the argument to its logical conclusion, your own country shouldn't be in the game as well.

Oh, but wait, that's American nationalism not the result of sloppy reasoning from your own biases..

Ted Striker · December 12, 2001, 15:42

USA!

ntyatecafe · December 12, 2001, 15:50

Quote:

To our Euro friends, don't be so smug about your historical age, as an old Chinese proverb goes, there will always be a mountain higher than the last, and there are plenty of Civilizations out there, some extinct , some existing in different configurations and some still intact (China) that predates your country by millenias more. And if we take the argument to its logical conclusion, your own country shouldn't be in the game as well.

HOORAH Dexters!!! I'd like to have said that, but others would have claimed it as another display of evil American arrogance, and talk of how the dastardly Americans were bashing other people's precious homelands!

Hey there's an idea! I won't bash your homeland, if you'll quit bashing mine!

(American by birth...Georgian by the grace of God!)

Dauphin · December 12, 2001, 15:56

Quote:

Originally posted by Ted Striker
USA!

Very good Ted.

Do Americans get "turned on" by their national flag?

(Granted she looks good, but why dress up like Wonderwoman?)

knott · December 12, 2001, 16:39

Quote:

Originally posted by Sencho
An incomplete list of American contributions to science and industry for the curious:

Air Conditioning
Airplane
Aluminum manufacture
Animation (specifically sound cartoons)
Binary circuits
Car radio (which also launched Motorola)
Cardiac pacemaker
Computer memory device (now called RAM)
Cyclotron
DNA Replication
Elevator
Fiber optics
Gasoline, manufacture
The Internet
Ironclads (The Monitor)
Kevlar
The laser
Linear polymerization
Neoprene
Nylon
Penicillin and its mass production
Petroleum cracking
Plow, steel
The semiconductor
Teflon
The telephone

Taken from here

Well monitor was bulit by John Ericsson from Motala Sverige

Aand the telephon was invented by a french guy don´t now his name.

sachmo71 · December 12, 2001, 17:33

WONDERWOMAN? If she were dressed like wonderwoman, she would be MUCH hotter! Blue spandex daisy dukes (another American invention!) with red leather knee boots. And a "truth lasso." She was invented by an American! Whoo hoo!

Dauphin · December 12, 2001, 19:39

Quote:

Originally posted by sachmo71
WONDERWOMAN? If she were dressed like wonderwoman, she would be MUCH hotter! Blue spandex daisy dukes (another American invention!) with red leather knee boots. And a "truth lasso." She was invented by an American! Whoo hoo!

Reminds me of a joke, involving the Invisible Man, Wonderwoman and Superman.

alskdj80 · December 12, 2001, 21:06

Well said, dexters, I entirely agree with you,

.

Quote:

Hey there's an idea! I won't bash your homeland, if you'll quit bashing mine!

Actually, I don't think people are purposely bashing your homeland... just those arrogant people's homeland, which, happens to be the same land. I wouldn't bash anyone's homeland unless I had a reason to. Sometimes, I find that I have split feelings about a country just because I know two people, a friend and an annoying jerk. Human nature, I guess?

Quote:

Aand the telephon was invented by a french guy don´t now his name.

Are you sure? I thought the telephone was invented by a Canadian... Alexander Graham Bell. Maybe I'm wrong, not really important.

Oh! and there is another thing invented by Americans (I think??)... silicon in Hollywood... all this talk about Britney Spears got that into my mind, hehe, sorry.

Quote:

Reminds me of a joke, involving the Invisible Man, Wonderwoman and Superman.

Lol, ewww... that's not a joke for the faint hearted... I remember wincing when I first heard that one, and felt sorry for Invisible Man, lol... I guess invisibility has its disadvantages...

And yeah, you're right, ntyatecafe, it is kind of lame to be discussing whether Americans should be in the game. Of course they should! Most of the people buying the games are American, first of all, and that's what Firaxis cares about. It doesn't really matter whether they are legit as a civ or not. It's a question of money, and no entrepreneur in their right minds would turn down money. Besides, if we keep questioning the definition of a civilization, you'll probably find that in the end, there's only one civ... "humans". Or, if we were to indulge ourselves and loosen the definition, we'd find, "yellow", "white", "black", "red" (and red is pushing it too). Not a very interesting game then, is it?

dexters · December 13, 2001, 02:48

Quote:

Originally posted by alskdj80
Well said, dexters, I entirely agree with you,

.

I agree with you too. oh wait. let me read what you're going to be saying...

Quote:

Actually, I don't think people are purposely bashing your homeland... just those arrogant people's homeland, which, happens to be the same land. I wouldn't bash anyone's homeland unless I had a reason to. Sometimes, I find that I have split feelings about a country just because I know two people, a friend and an annoying jerk. Human nature, I guess?

Well, a little bit of nationalism, of identity, doesn't hurt anybody. It is all part of being a good citizen. And I applaud our friends over the pond for showing that they love their country.

But Nationalism is a Genie, when unleashed, it can bring destruction and death. And out of everyone, I would think our European friends would know this. overzealous Nationalism had been one of the central reasons for two world wars fought on European soil.

Quote:

Are you sure? I thought the telephone was invented by a Canadian... Alexander Graham Bell. Maybe I'm wrong, not really important.

Graham Bell, a Canadian, invented the telephone, but he had a rival, I believe his last name was Gray, but I'm not sure if he is swedish. I believe he was an American. Most books I've read seem to infer both invented it at roughly the same time. Bell just won by filing the patents first.

Dauphin · December 13, 2001, 09:21

Quote:

Graham Bell, a Canadian

Wasn't he a Scottish emigrant?

Ted Striker · December 13, 2001, 09:59

Per Big Crunch's Request:

g_storrow · December 13, 2001, 11:44

I have enjoyed the argument but I agree that obviuosly not all Americans are arrogant but when you get a little criticism ( which was very silly about USA not being in the game: which I imagine was a wind up) you then go on to say we invented all this so we are great!
So much depends who wrote what you read. Where obviously in Canada Graham Bell invented the telephone but in Britain I have always heard he was Scottish.
Moving back to inventions, I heard around 70% of the world patents were recorded in the UK but more are develpoed in USA becasue they are the largest 1st world country therefore the most money to develop these ideas.
Saying how all America is made up of other cultures so is a lot of other countries as most have been invaded by another country all over it's history apart from maybet he Inuits as no-one wants to live in North Pole.

siredgar · December 13, 2001, 11:53

LOL, Ted! Great pic! It's even autographed!

Anyhow, Mercury, I want to ask you if Americans are so new to your people (Ukrainians, I assume), then how would your people be like to the Chinese or Egyptians? Their civilizations are several times older than yours.

Regardless, I wonder how many game turns the Romans have in Civ III (when you count their years in existence in real history) compared to the Americans. This could be a very interesting calculation.

ntyatecafe · December 13, 2001, 15:34

Quote:

Regardless, I wonder how many game turns the Romans have in Civ III (when you count their years in existence in real history) compared to the Americans. This could be a very interesting calculation.

How many years were the Romans around? (remeber I have that years/turns chart)

Dauphin · December 13, 2001, 16:37

Quote:

Originally posted by Ted Striker
Per Big Crunch's Request:

If you don't mind, can you find a stunner who is sporting the English flag?

In fact can you show me an example of any other good looking women sporting a non-USA-flag outfit, other than at an International Sports event. e.g Brazilian girls at the World Cup

doesn't count.

ntyatecafe · December 13, 2001, 18:41

"To each their own..."

Quote:

If you don't mind, can you find a stunner who is sporting the English flag?

The only thing better than a beautiful woman is a beautiful woman wearing your country's flag...

Ted Striker · December 13, 2001, 18:50

I'll see what I can find Big Crunch.

alskdj80 · December 13, 2001, 20:21

Yeah, it would be interesting to compare Rome to the other civs... the civs mentioned before in the comparison chart all exist today (except Egypt, because it really isn't the same civ as before). That doesn't give a very interesting comparison because the ones that existed first must have more turns as well.

All I know is that the legend of Romulus and Remus was dated at 753 BC. But after that, I think they were ruled by foreign leaders... it wasn't until 509 BC that they formed the Roman Republic. Problem is, when did Rome start? The legendary foundation? The Republic? Or the start of the Roman Empire? I think I'm leaning towards the 753 BC date. And about the fall, I think the Eastern Empire fell in 476 AD. How many years is that?

Nathan · December 14, 2001, 00:53

Yes, Alexander Graham Bell was Scottish. He moved to Canada and then the US.

Nathan

siredgar · December 14, 2001, 18:24

PERIOD----------------YRS/TRN------TURNS
4000 BC - 2750 BC---------50------------25
2750 BC - 1750 BC---------40------------25
1750 BC - 750 BC-----------25-----------40
750 BC - 250 AD------------20------------50
250 AD - 1250 AD----------10-----------100
1250 AD - 1750 AD---------5------------100
1750 AD - 1950 AD---------2------------100
1950 AD - 2050 AD---------1------------100

Well, alskdj80, if we use your dates, then Rome (753BC-476AD)would have:

753BC - 750BC = 3 years / 25 = n/a turns
751BC - 250AD = 999 years / 20 = about 50 turns
251AD - 476AD = 225 years / 10 = 22.5 turns

That's only about 73 turns!

Interesting, hmmm?

alskdj80 · December 15, 2001, 12:17

lol, I didn't expect that Rome was so insignificant in Civ turns. Strange. What about Egypt? Does anyone know when ancient Egypt came to an end? I'm guessing that they have less total turns than most of the compared civs.

Wow, it really seems as if a civ that existed recently (or survived throughout history) is much more significant in Civ than a civ that existed earlier in history, no matter how long.