Thread Tools
Old December 10, 2001, 14:59   #61
ntyatecafe
Chieftain
 
Local Time: 12:49
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Georgia, USA
Posts: 42
Quote:
Originally posted by Thrawn05
I find it funny how we continue to turn to the Egyptians when comparing other civs. It should be pointed out that Egypt AS A CULTURE OF ITS OWN ended when the Roman Empire fell, and the Muslim raiders took control of it.
I believe that everyone is using Egypt as the comparison point, because it is believed to be the earliest civilization.
__________________
Why did I join the Army?
Free Food
Free Bullets
And it sure beats working for a living...
ntyatecafe is offline  
Old December 10, 2001, 15:48   #62
siredgar
Prince
 
siredgar's Avatar
 
Local Time: 12:49
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: New York, NY
Posts: 543
Quote:
Originally posted by Thrawn05
I find it funny how we continue to turn to the Egyptians when comparing other civs. It should be pointed out that Egypt AS A CULTURE OF ITS OWN ended when the Roman Empire fell, and the Muslim raiders took control of it.
Good point! Now, how many years is that? Hehe.
__________________
"I've spent more time posting than playing."
siredgar is offline  
Old December 10, 2001, 15:52   #63
siredgar
Prince
 
siredgar's Avatar
 
Local Time: 12:49
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: New York, NY
Posts: 543
And what were Enroth's great inventions? Hmmm?


Ribbanah, you always seem to dig up these great pre-inventions. However, I have to question some of them as the real precursors to widely recognized "firsts".
__________________
"I've spent more time posting than playing."
siredgar is offline  
Old December 10, 2001, 15:53   #64
Dauphin
Civilization IV PBEMPolyCast Team
Deity
 
Dauphin's Avatar
 
Local Time: 18:49
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Dec 1969
Location: Seouenaca, Cantium
Posts: 12,426
Quote:
"...and we stood on the shoulders of giants to thus achieve..."
Paraphrased, that is what Newton said.

It was an acceptance of the work acheived by his predecessors, however it was also a personal swipe at a fellow gifted "scientist" who was particularly short. Can't remember who though, Leibnitz?
__________________
"Everybody knows you never go full retard. You went full retard man. Never go full retard"
Dauphin is offline  
Old December 10, 2001, 19:30   #65
molly bloom
King
 
molly bloom's Avatar
 
Local Time: 03:49
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Lundenwic
Posts: 2,719
Quote:
Originally posted by Big Crunch
Quote:
"...and we stood on the shoulders of giants to thus achieve..."
Paraphrased, that is what Newton said.

It was an acceptance of the work acheived by his predecessors, however it was also a personal swipe at a fellow gifted "scientist" who was particularly short. Can't remember who though, Leibnitz?
Try Robert Hooke:

www.mathpages.com/rr/s8-02/8-02.htm
__________________
Cherish your youth. Mark Foley, 2002

I don't know what you're talking about by international law. G.W. Bush, 12/03
molly bloom is offline  
Old December 12, 2001, 09:30   #66
aaglo
King
 
aaglo's Avatar
 
Local Time: 20:49
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: the contradiction is filled with holes...
Posts: 1,398
Quote:
Originally posted by Beckdawg
... Another thing you guys are leaving out is the fact that the US is where democracy became a popular government...
Hehee, should we thank US or bash them more for this
__________________
I'm not a complete idiot: some parts are still missing.
aaglo is offline  
Old December 12, 2001, 11:43   #67
Mercury
Settler
 
Local Time: 19:49
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Lviv, Ukraine
Posts: 4
Yeh! Bash America.
To my mind americans isn't a civilization. BECAUSE:
At first it was a couple of colonies and later they became independent and became as U.S.A. 300 as waas said for history is like 3 hours to us. So if a day has 24 hours, what are the 3?
Also as nation they formed later. And what nation???
In colonies was englishmen, and another nationalities. So?
The true so called "americans" are indians such as Sioux.
Why now America is so powerful. Because a lot of people such as former englishmen, french,chinese and others accumulated their minds to create such gegemony. But american culture is transformed from a group of another cultures, and became "american".
Banish!!!
Mercury is offline  
Old December 12, 2001, 13:17   #68
ntyatecafe
Chieftain
 
Local Time: 12:49
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Georgia, USA
Posts: 42
Re: Yeh! Bash America.
Quote:
Originally posted by Mercury
To my mind americans isn't a civilization. BECAUSE:
At first it was a couple of colonies and later they became independent and became as U.S.A. 300 as waas said for history is like 3 hours to us. So if a day has 24 hours, what are the 3?
Also as nation they formed later. And what nation???
In colonies was englishmen, and another nationalities. So?
The true so called "americans" are indians such as Sioux.
Why now America is so powerful. Because a lot of people such as former englishmen, french,chinese and others accumulated their minds to create such gegemony. But american culture is transformed from a group of another cultures, and became "american".
Banish!!!
Let me re-iterate a point I made earlier. If you want the game to go accuratly by history, every civilization in the game would have consequences...even Russia (assuming that it represents the entire [former] USSR would be reduced to a fraction of its power due to the coup and the formation of the CIS. I think we've already well established that a game that went accurately by history wouldn't be much fun.

One more point I need to make: What is the purpose to these discussions? Are we really that arrogant? I mean, if we decide that America shouldn't be in the game, what's going to happen? Do any of you really expect FireAxis to waste an obsurd amount of money by recalling the game, spending a lot of time removing America from it, then re-releasing it? Not to mention compensating those who had already bought the game! Is this likely? No. Is this feasible? No. Is this an assinine asumption? YES!

Bottom line: If you don't want America in the game, get your thumb out of you @$$, and edit it out. Quit whining about it, and quit wasting our time! This is pretty much a dead topic, so I'd suggest everyone drop it, and stop yapping at your betters!
__________________
Why did I join the Army?
Free Food
Free Bullets
And it sure beats working for a living...
ntyatecafe is offline  
Old December 12, 2001, 15:11   #69
dexters
Apolyton Storywriters' Guild
King
 
dexters's Avatar
 
Local Time: 17:49
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Vancouver, Canada
Posts: 1,141

Last edited by dexters; December 12, 2001 at 15:16.
dexters is offline  
Old December 12, 2001, 15:13   #70
dexters
Apolyton Storywriters' Guild
King
 
dexters's Avatar
 
Local Time: 17:49
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Vancouver, Canada
Posts: 1,141
It's been said before, but A TRUE game of Civilization will start with a band of Nomads with no particular nationality or culture and you would have full control in steering it into whatever you like.

As for the Americans being a Civilization, the Chinese would argue most of Europe does not deserve to be in the game as for most of China's 4000 long years of history, Europe was a collection of barbarian huts.

I'm sure the Egyptians would say the same thing.

To our Euro friends, don't be so smug about your historical age, as an old Chinese proverb goes, there will always be a mountain higher than the last, and there are plenty of Civilizations out there, some extinct , some existing in different configurations and some still intact (China) that predates your country by millenias more. And if we take the argument to its logical conclusion, your own country shouldn't be in the game as well.

Oh, but wait, that's American nationalism not the result of sloppy reasoning from your own biases..
dexters is offline  
Old December 12, 2001, 15:42   #71
Ted Striker
Apolytoners Hall of Fame
Emperor
 
Ted Striker's Avatar
 
Local Time: 09:49
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Dec 1969
Location: Batallón de San Patricio, United States of America
Posts: 3,696
USA!
Attached Thumbnails:
Click image for larger version

Name:	britneyusa.jpg
Views:	234
Size:	34.4 KB
ID:	7515  
__________________
"Let the People know the facts and the country will be saved." Abraham Lincoln

Mis Novias
Ted Striker is offline  
Old December 12, 2001, 15:50   #72
ntyatecafe
Chieftain
 
Local Time: 12:49
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Georgia, USA
Posts: 42
Quote:
To our Euro friends, don't be so smug about your historical age, as an old Chinese proverb goes, there will always be a mountain higher than the last, and there are plenty of Civilizations out there, some extinct , some existing in different configurations and some still intact (China) that predates your country by millenias more. And if we take the argument to its logical conclusion, your own country shouldn't be in the game as well.
HOORAH Dexters!!! I'd like to have said that, but others would have claimed it as another display of evil American arrogance, and talk of how the dastardly Americans were bashing other people's precious homelands!

Hey there's an idea! I won't bash your homeland, if you'll quit bashing mine!


(American by birth...Georgian by the grace of God!)
__________________
Why did I join the Army?
Free Food
Free Bullets
And it sure beats working for a living...
ntyatecafe is offline  
Old December 12, 2001, 15:56   #73
Dauphin
Civilization IV PBEMPolyCast Team
Deity
 
Dauphin's Avatar
 
Local Time: 18:49
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Dec 1969
Location: Seouenaca, Cantium
Posts: 12,426
Quote:
Originally posted by Ted Striker
USA!
Very good Ted.

Do Americans get "turned on" by their national flag?

(Granted she looks good, but why dress up like Wonderwoman?)
__________________
"Everybody knows you never go full retard. You went full retard man. Never go full retard"
Dauphin is offline  
Old December 12, 2001, 16:39   #74
knott
Chieftain
 
knott's Avatar
 
Local Time: 18:49
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Sweden
Posts: 71
Quote:
Originally posted by Sencho
An incomplete list of American contributions to science and industry for the curious:

Air Conditioning
Airplane
Aluminum manufacture
Animation (specifically sound cartoons)
Binary circuits
Car radio (which also launched Motorola)
Cardiac pacemaker
Computer memory device (now called RAM)
Cyclotron
DNA Replication
Elevator
Fiber optics
Gasoline, manufacture
The Internet
Ironclads (The Monitor)
Kevlar
The laser
Linear polymerization
Neoprene
Nylon
Penicillin and its mass production
Petroleum cracking
Plow, steel
The semiconductor
Teflon
The telephone

Taken from here
Well monitor was bulit by John Ericsson from Motala Sverige
Aand the telephon was invented by a french guy don´t now his name.
__________________
Das Ewige Friede ist ein Traum, und nicht einmal ein schöner /Moltke

Si vis pacem, para bellum /Vegetius
knott is offline  
Old December 12, 2001, 17:33   #75
sachmo71
Warlord
 
Local Time: 11:49
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: May 2001
Location: de Tejas
Posts: 158
WONDERWOMAN? If she were dressed like wonderwoman, she would be MUCH hotter! Blue spandex daisy dukes (another American invention!) with red leather knee boots. And a "truth lasso." She was invented by an American! Whoo hoo!
sachmo71 is offline  
Old December 12, 2001, 19:39   #76
Dauphin
Civilization IV PBEMPolyCast Team
Deity
 
Dauphin's Avatar
 
Local Time: 18:49
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Dec 1969
Location: Seouenaca, Cantium
Posts: 12,426
Quote:
Originally posted by sachmo71
WONDERWOMAN? If she were dressed like wonderwoman, she would be MUCH hotter! Blue spandex daisy dukes (another American invention!) with red leather knee boots. And a "truth lasso." She was invented by an American! Whoo hoo!
Reminds me of a joke, involving the Invisible Man, Wonderwoman and Superman.
__________________
"Everybody knows you never go full retard. You went full retard man. Never go full retard"
Dauphin is offline  
Old December 12, 2001, 21:06   #77
alskdj80
Settler
 
Local Time: 17:49
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 10
Well said, dexters, I entirely agree with you, .

Quote:
Hey there's an idea! I won't bash your homeland, if you'll quit bashing mine!
Actually, I don't think people are purposely bashing your homeland... just those arrogant people's homeland, which, happens to be the same land. I wouldn't bash anyone's homeland unless I had a reason to. Sometimes, I find that I have split feelings about a country just because I know two people, a friend and an annoying jerk. Human nature, I guess?

Quote:
Aand the telephon was invented by a french guy don´t now his name.
Are you sure? I thought the telephone was invented by a Canadian... Alexander Graham Bell. Maybe I'm wrong, not really important.

Oh! and there is another thing invented by Americans (I think??)... silicon in Hollywood... all this talk about Britney Spears got that into my mind, hehe, sorry.

Quote:
Reminds me of a joke, involving the Invisible Man, Wonderwoman and Superman.
Lol, ewww... that's not a joke for the faint hearted... I remember wincing when I first heard that one, and felt sorry for Invisible Man, lol... I guess invisibility has its disadvantages...

And yeah, you're right, ntyatecafe, it is kind of lame to be discussing whether Americans should be in the game. Of course they should! Most of the people buying the games are American, first of all, and that's what Firaxis cares about. It doesn't really matter whether they are legit as a civ or not. It's a question of money, and no entrepreneur in their right minds would turn down money. Besides, if we keep questioning the definition of a civilization, you'll probably find that in the end, there's only one civ... "humans". Or, if we were to indulge ourselves and loosen the definition, we'd find, "yellow", "white", "black", "red" (and red is pushing it too). Not a very interesting game then, is it?

Last edited by alskdj80; December 12, 2001 at 21:11.
alskdj80 is offline  
Old December 13, 2001, 02:48   #78
dexters
Apolyton Storywriters' Guild
King
 
dexters's Avatar
 
Local Time: 17:49
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Vancouver, Canada
Posts: 1,141
Quote:
Originally posted by alskdj80
Well said, dexters, I entirely agree with you, .
I agree with you too. oh wait. let me read what you're going to be saying...


Quote:
Actually, I don't think people are purposely bashing your homeland... just those arrogant people's homeland, which, happens to be the same land. I wouldn't bash anyone's homeland unless I had a reason to. Sometimes, I find that I have split feelings about a country just because I know two people, a friend and an annoying jerk. Human nature, I guess?
Well, a little bit of nationalism, of identity, doesn't hurt anybody. It is all part of being a good citizen. And I applaud our friends over the pond for showing that they love their country.

But Nationalism is a Genie, when unleashed, it can bring destruction and death. And out of everyone, I would think our European friends would know this. overzealous Nationalism had been one of the central reasons for two world wars fought on European soil.


Quote:
Are you sure? I thought the telephone was invented by a Canadian... Alexander Graham Bell. Maybe I'm wrong, not really important.
Graham Bell, a Canadian, invented the telephone, but he had a rival, I believe his last name was Gray, but I'm not sure if he is swedish. I believe he was an American. Most books I've read seem to infer both invented it at roughly the same time. Bell just won by filing the patents first.

Last edited by dexters; December 13, 2001 at 02:53.
dexters is offline  
Old December 13, 2001, 09:21   #79
Dauphin
Civilization IV PBEMPolyCast Team
Deity
 
Dauphin's Avatar
 
Local Time: 18:49
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Dec 1969
Location: Seouenaca, Cantium
Posts: 12,426
Quote:
Graham Bell, a Canadian
Wasn't he a Scottish emigrant?
__________________
"Everybody knows you never go full retard. You went full retard man. Never go full retard"
Dauphin is offline  
Old December 13, 2001, 09:59   #80
Ted Striker
Apolytoners Hall of Fame
Emperor
 
Ted Striker's Avatar
 
Local Time: 09:49
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Dec 1969
Location: Batallón de San Patricio, United States of America
Posts: 3,696
Per Big Crunch's Request:
Attached Thumbnails:
Click image for larger version

Name:	wwcsign3.jpg
Views:	205
Size:	55.6 KB
ID:	7551  
__________________
"Let the People know the facts and the country will be saved." Abraham Lincoln

Mis Novias
Ted Striker is offline  
Old December 13, 2001, 11:44   #81
g_storrow
Civilization IV: MultiplayerApolyton University
Prince
 
g_storrow's Avatar
 
Local Time: 17:49
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Manchester, England
Posts: 405
I have enjoyed the argument but I agree that obviuosly not all Americans are arrogant but when you get a little criticism ( which was very silly about USA not being in the game: which I imagine was a wind up) you then go on to say we invented all this so we are great!
So much depends who wrote what you read. Where obviously in Canada Graham Bell invented the telephone but in Britain I have always heard he was Scottish.
Moving back to inventions, I heard around 70% of the world patents were recorded in the UK but more are develpoed in USA becasue they are the largest 1st world country therefore the most money to develop these ideas.
Saying how all America is made up of other cultures so is a lot of other countries as most have been invaded by another country all over it's history apart from maybet he Inuits as no-one wants to live in North Pole.
g_storrow is offline  
Old December 13, 2001, 11:53   #82
siredgar
Prince
 
siredgar's Avatar
 
Local Time: 12:49
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: New York, NY
Posts: 543
LOL, Ted! Great pic! It's even autographed!

Anyhow, Mercury, I want to ask you if Americans are so new to your people (Ukrainians, I assume), then how would your people be like to the Chinese or Egyptians? Their civilizations are several times older than yours.

Regardless, I wonder how many game turns the Romans have in Civ III (when you count their years in existence in real history) compared to the Americans. This could be a very interesting calculation.
__________________
"I've spent more time posting than playing."
siredgar is offline  
Old December 13, 2001, 15:34   #83
ntyatecafe
Chieftain
 
Local Time: 12:49
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Georgia, USA
Posts: 42
Quote:
Regardless, I wonder how many game turns the Romans have in Civ III (when you count their years in existence in real history) compared to the Americans. This could be a very interesting calculation.
How many years were the Romans around? (remeber I have that years/turns chart)
__________________
Why did I join the Army?
Free Food
Free Bullets
And it sure beats working for a living...
ntyatecafe is offline  
Old December 13, 2001, 16:37   #84
Dauphin
Civilization IV PBEMPolyCast Team
Deity
 
Dauphin's Avatar
 
Local Time: 18:49
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Dec 1969
Location: Seouenaca, Cantium
Posts: 12,426
Quote:
Originally posted by Ted Striker
Per Big Crunch's Request:
If you don't mind, can you find a stunner who is sporting the English flag?

In fact can you show me an example of any other good looking women sporting a non-USA-flag outfit, other than at an International Sports event. e.g Brazilian girls at the World Cup doesn't count.
__________________
"Everybody knows you never go full retard. You went full retard man. Never go full retard"
Dauphin is offline  
Old December 13, 2001, 18:41   #85
ntyatecafe
Chieftain
 
Local Time: 12:49
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Georgia, USA
Posts: 42
"To each their own..."

Quote:
If you don't mind, can you find a stunner who is sporting the English flag?
The only thing better than a beautiful woman is a beautiful woman wearing your country's flag...
__________________
Why did I join the Army?
Free Food
Free Bullets
And it sure beats working for a living...
ntyatecafe is offline  
Old December 13, 2001, 18:50   #86
Ted Striker
Apolytoners Hall of Fame
Emperor
 
Ted Striker's Avatar
 
Local Time: 09:49
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Dec 1969
Location: Batallón de San Patricio, United States of America
Posts: 3,696
I'll see what I can find Big Crunch.
__________________
"Let the People know the facts and the country will be saved." Abraham Lincoln

Mis Novias
Ted Striker is offline  
Old December 13, 2001, 20:21   #87
alskdj80
Settler
 
Local Time: 17:49
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 10
Yeah, it would be interesting to compare Rome to the other civs... the civs mentioned before in the comparison chart all exist today (except Egypt, because it really isn't the same civ as before). That doesn't give a very interesting comparison because the ones that existed first must have more turns as well.

All I know is that the legend of Romulus and Remus was dated at 753 BC. But after that, I think they were ruled by foreign leaders... it wasn't until 509 BC that they formed the Roman Republic. Problem is, when did Rome start? The legendary foundation? The Republic? Or the start of the Roman Empire? I think I'm leaning towards the 753 BC date. And about the fall, I think the Eastern Empire fell in 476 AD. How many years is that?
alskdj80 is offline  
Old December 14, 2001, 00:53   #88
Nathan
Settler
 
Local Time: 11:49
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: St. Louis
Posts: 4
Yes, Alexander Graham Bell was Scottish. He moved to Canada and then the US.

Nathan
__________________
If life gives you a lemon, wing it right back and add some lemons of your own. -Calvin
Nathan is offline  
Old December 14, 2001, 18:24   #89
siredgar
Prince
 
siredgar's Avatar
 
Local Time: 12:49
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: New York, NY
Posts: 543
PERIOD----------------YRS/TRN------TURNS
4000 BC - 2750 BC---------50------------25
2750 BC - 1750 BC---------40------------25
1750 BC - 750 BC-----------25-----------40
750 BC - 250 AD------------20------------50
250 AD - 1250 AD----------10-----------100
1250 AD - 1750 AD---------5------------100
1750 AD - 1950 AD---------2------------100
1950 AD - 2050 AD---------1------------100

Well, alskdj80, if we use your dates, then Rome (753BC-476AD)would have:

753BC - 750BC = 3 years / 25 = n/a turns
751BC - 250AD = 999 years / 20 = about 50 turns
251AD - 476AD = 225 years / 10 = 22.5 turns

That's only about 73 turns!

Interesting, hmmm?
__________________
"I've spent more time posting than playing."
siredgar is offline  
Old December 15, 2001, 12:17   #90
alskdj80
Settler
 
Local Time: 17:49
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 10
lol, I didn't expect that Rome was so insignificant in Civ turns. Strange. What about Egypt? Does anyone know when ancient Egypt came to an end? I'm guessing that they have less total turns than most of the compared civs.

Wow, it really seems as if a civ that existed recently (or survived throughout history) is much more significant in Civ than a civ that existed earlier in history, no matter how long.
alskdj80 is offline  
 

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 13:49.


Design by Vjacheslav Trushkin, color scheme by ColorizeIt!.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2010, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Apolyton Civilization Site | Copyright © The Apolyton Team