No more temples to build in modern ages !

[S. Kroeze]

Just a general remark:

Most suggestions here about this topic will result in even more easy wins. For those players the best advise I can give is to start at Chieftain level again! I never, ever cheat in any way and often handicap myself - for instance by not building any wonders or never changing government- still I think it is almost impossible to lose the game against the AI's on any level, usually with seven Civs and Raging Hordes. My game score will suffer but the final result will be the same.

If you have some money in reserve you can build all essential improvements in every new-build city. And it just isn't realistic that a new city would get everything for free. Instead I hope Firaxis wil try to make the game a REAL challenge! As the game is now I only enjoy the game until about 1500AD, after which it becomes boring. Some really difficult scenario's (e.g.Midgard or Newworld) still remain interesting though.

I agree with OrangeSfwr that you shouldn't get messages telling a wonder of your opponent is almost completed. I consider buying/rush building wonders cheating too!

[Adm.Naismith]

S.Kroeze, why are you speaking about cheat?
I agree that rush building anything from scratch to completion is unrealistic.

Thinking twice I will like more a system to let you add money to multiply turn production (e.g. double it or some more clever rule) BUT not let you force things to an immediate completion.

You are building a temple in 6 turns, if you pay x money you can hurry to finish it in 3 turns, not faster (but because you hurry up things so much you can end with a 50% probability to have a production problem that will add one turn more).

Same about wonders, so you can know that someone is building them (word of mouth will let this kind of epical project know to any Civ) but you can't do a miracle to catch it by the tail, if you aren't advanced enough into same building (plenty of money or not).

Of course real solution should be others: no "unique" wonders, no switch of wonder mid-building, but that's another thread (and List 2.0 contain enough ideas about it).

I don't think that difficult is equal to boring. If I look at modern city I can't see any reasonable similitude to Civ model. I really see room (and needs) for a different growth model (i.e. immigration from near village or city or far countries).
I don't understand why you feel the need to wait years and years to build so basic infrastructure.

May be I'm not a player good enough (but beware of take only the master players as benchmark about game difficult, IMO).

I really would prefer to have some different task to cope with to make the game balanced from start to end.

On the same line, why we don't have to build any unit as phalanx still in 1980 before to upgrade it to mechanized infantry?

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Admiral Naismith AKA mcostant

quote: Originally posted by S. Kroeze on 05-05-2000 05:23 AM Just a general remark: Most suggestions here about this topic will result in even more easy wins. For those players the best advise I can give is to start at Chieftain level again! I never, ever cheat in any way and often handicap myself - for instance by not building any wonders or never changing government- still I think it is almost impossible to lose the game against the AI's on any level, usually with seven Civs and Raging Hordes. My game score will suffer but the final result will be the same. If you have some money in reserve you can build all essential improvements in every new-build city. And it just isn't realistic that a new city would get everything for free. Instead I hope Firaxis wil try to make the game a REAL challenge! As the game is now I only enjoy the game until about 1500AD, after which it becomes boring. Some really difficult scenario's (e.g.Midgard or Newworld) still remain interesting though. I agree with OrangeSfwr that you shouldn't get messages telling a wonder of your opponent is almost completed. I consider buying/rush building wonders cheating too!

You're thinking in the "Civ 2, CTP" frame of mind. If you consider all the changes that should occur in Civ 3 than I don't think any thing to up city production to be more realistic is a big problem. I hope to see a much slower and more thought out Tech tree (not ridiculously slow, but more time between sciences and more sciences in General) in order to show the importance of advances through trade. With this in mind (and the implemention of the new Wonder system idea that you seem to like) the idea of auto production (IMHO) will not be "easy". Especially if the AI (and other players in Multiplayer) get the same option. You have to admit that a city built in 1950 without a marketplace is a little unaccurate isn't it? Especially when you have to buy a million improvements after that. And on Chieftan I can conquer the planet before A.D. as most people can. But beating the game on Diety without changing Government types and without wonders?? C'mon. (And if that's the truth, than there is a problem with Civ. No Civ should be able to conquer the planet or get to AC without a wonder and under a tyrant!)


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