bribing enemy cities - does it work?

LaRusso · December 4, 2001, 05:04

did anyone manage to bribe an enemy city? it surely costs a lot, but i never succeed. i was just wondering....

Dis · December 4, 2001, 05:17

plus it comes so late, when other civs are already in democracy. I never liked the idea, so I never tried. But it seems to me you should be able to do this more in ancient times, than in modern times.

I can see Bin Ladin giving the mayor of New York 50 million dollars to convert to the Al Queda

LaRusso · December 4, 2001, 05:21

Quote:

Originally posted by Dissident
plus it comes so late, when other civs are already in democracy. I never liked the idea, so I never tried. But it seems to me you should be able to do this more in ancient times, than in modern times.

I can see Bin Ladin giving the mayor of New York 50 million dollars to convert to the Al Queda

but the new yorkers are 'unsympathetic to the cause'. wonder why

Dis · December 4, 2001, 05:25

ahh but they could fool new yorkers sense of logic. By joing the Al Queda, they will no longer be under terrorist attack. What better way to avoid terrorist attack, then to join the terrorist

Nexus VI · December 4, 2001, 05:29

Not only to bribe cities is practically impossible, but have you seen how many failure you got when you try to put a spy?

During a game session I was on the map with Indians, Persians and Greeks. I've installed succesfully a spy in Greek territory, but when I tried to do the same with Persians and Indians I always failed, no matter my cultural/economic/political/territorial supremacy...

Eventually, when I was in war (I needed rubber) I tried again and I did succed...

Awfully strange, isn't it?

PS. The cheat to bomb far away cities pressing the B key followed by an instant left mouse click works; the problem is that when I tried it (more or less a hundred times) it didn't do any damage to the city... I'm puzzled.

Sevorak · December 4, 2001, 06:12

Well...the thing to understand is that the enemy city bribe isn't like the Civ2 bribe. What the enemy city bribe is about is forking over a wad of cash to speed up cultural assimilation (in a way). If there wasn't any chance whatsoever of being assimilated before, it's highly unlikely that a bribe will help. If you want to successfully bribe cities, pick cities that are, if not likely to fall under your cultural influence, at least UN-likely to resist - that means small cities (size <=4) , civil disorder, perhaps with foreign nationalities present, and generally far away from the enemy capital. Also, have a very, very big culture - base chance to bribe depends on what they think of your culture. Only the last three levels give you a good chance - Impressed With = 20%, Admirers Of = 25%, In Awe Of = 30%.

In addition to that, use government to your advantage - check every turn to see what their government is (military advisor). If you're a Democracy chances of a successful bribe increase (dunno if it's better or worse than Communism's Veteran Spies) vs any other government in the game, just like cultural assimilation (propaganda modifier in the editor). For example, Dem vs. Rep is +5, Dem vs. Com is +10. Unless your culture is huge (In Awe Of, 3:1 or better, not likely in high level games) , your chances of bribing a Republic or Communist city will be looking around the 15-25% range...not good. However, Dem vs. Anarchy is +35, so if they go into a revolution, go after their cities with a vengeance as you'll usually get at least 40% chance. Dem even gets a +20 vs. Monarchy so that's not too bad. Communism, the other late game choice, has a -10 vs. Republic and so is not likely to ever successfully bribe (assuming you're relatively even in culture, your chance will be 10% or so). Even against Monarchy, it's just +5...not too likely, still. Same rule applies for "go after Anarchy" since you have a +25 then, but rarely else.

I've succeeded on quite a few bribes. Once, England and Japan had been at war for the last thousand years or so, and the one city I was eyeing was near three coal tiles and had just changed hands from the Japanese to the English ten or twelve years ago. It wasn't anywhere near me, but I was MPPed to both Japan and England and was trading with them so I didn't expect them to go after it, plus their thousand-year war hadn't done wondrous things for their culture. Japan was in Monarchy, England was in Republic. England then went into revolution (to go to Communism). At that time, I threw cash at that city and it went right over. It was part Japanese people, part English people, and all mine

In a more recent game, after a six-civ coalition eviscerated the Persians in 1390 or something like that, the Persians restarted at the top of the Zulu continent, which was all tundra. No one was settling there because after the Persians died, the Zulu, French and Americans kicked off against the Aztec and the Germans (and I stayed the hell away). Anyway, a little while later I get Refining, I have four Oil tiles in my territory and immediately pillage the roads off all of them (no sense connecting it until Combustion at least, and why risk exhaustion?) . The thing is, the Persians, with their empire of four size one cities, own three more oil tiles, and while the rest of the world is spitting blood and fire at each other I figured I'd pick them up as insurance. Problem - they're half a world away and I'm not about to waltz Galleons and Cavalry through a war zone, plus it'd take forever. Just then I notice that they're in Monarchy. I open up the spy menu and start flinging cash. I happen to have great culture, having stayed out of most wars and built a lot of cultural improvements, better than the other people who are busy fighting wars and blowing up thousand-year-old temples. The Persians do not have great culture, having been boxed in early and pretty much steamrolled later. Two of the size one cities go over to me right away, they'll never produce anything but they cover two of the three oil tiles I want. One of them is three tiles away from Persia's capital, so I figure that means the capital's influence is not so important in bribes. Then again, Persia's culture was pretty pathetic and its size one capital probably wasn't exerting too much pressure either.

Anyway, that's just a couple of examples I remember, I've bribed a few more, generally cities that were succumbing to my cultural influence anyway (once I bribed and failed, and the city assimilated on the next turn anyway). Bribing is less key than Civ2 though, when you could bribe entire civilizations to death with a flood of spies. It's more a peripheral thing, a useful tool but no game-finisher.

As for planting a spy failures, once you plant and fail, you probably won't be able to plant successfully for the next six to seven turns - that's been my observation, anyway. Just lay off the spy planting for a few turns, then try again.

-Sev

Nexus VI · December 4, 2001, 06:18

Quote:

Originally posted by Sevorak
As for planting a spy failures, once you plant and fail, you probably won't be able to plant successfully for the next six to seven turns - that's been my observation, anyway. Just lay off the spy planting for a few turns, then try again.

Acknowledged for what I've cut of your post. About the spies. When I tried to plant a spy in enemy nations I used the technique: "Save the game, try, if failed then reload the game". So I believe the reason must be another. Or at least I hope so...

Sevorak · December 4, 2001, 06:41

Save-reloads use the same random numbers. Try it with combat, save-reload a million times you'll get the same result. They fixed that in Civ3. Save-reloads with anything random will give you the same result each time.

-Sev

LaRusso · December 4, 2001, 06:58

Quote:

Originally posted by Sevorak
Save-reloads use the same random numbers. Try it with combat, save-reload a million times you'll get the same result. They fixed that in Civ3. Save-reloads with anything random will give you the same result each time.

-Sev

i must admit i really like that. otherwise, temptation for autosave is too big. still, you can cheat around it by executing battles in different order, or sth like that....

Grim Legacy · December 4, 2001, 07:08

This bribing stuff seems way too inefficient for its benefits. Let's consider a bribe that has some chance to succeed:

A smallish enemy city, with a considerable lack of culture, on the verge of joining you anyway... probaly near your own cultural border. Sure, a bribe will do the trick... but why not simply resort to more forceful means? A few assault units will take such a weak city anyway.